How Would YOU Like to Play on a Pro Team with Manny???

[AGD]

AO,

First of all this is not some test or another crazy post this is for real. For certain political reasons I won't go into, it might be a good thing for AGD to own a pro team that they control. Since we are not going to go out and "buy" a bunch of pro players I had another idea.

I am considering putting a pro AGD Factory Team into the NPPL circuit for a couple of events a year. Instead of having regular members we could do a contest and have the winners get to come out and play on the team at the event. I was talking to Manny about this today and he even offered to play on the team as a guest star if it wasn't at an NPPL event. He thought it sounded like a lot of fun.

So that is the question, what do you think of playing pro at a NPPL event? Of course we would come in dead last but at least we are there!!

AGD

[timebomb]

If you're going to field a team, I suggest you put some effort into it, recruit from the community and have them stick together and play as a team throughout all 5 tournaments. To just send them out there like a bunch of cattle to get slaughtered wouldn't be much fun..if they actually tried, I think you would have a good thing going.

Mike

[FooTemps]

Tom, I think that the AO MEGAMEET tourny would make for a good recruiting grounds when it comes around. Do you want me to incorporate that into the plans right now?

[apache]

If I lived in the US I'd want to come and play there for sure Though I don't think any publicity is good publicity... If I was a new tourney player and constantly saw "AGD Factory Team" last on the score lists, I'd think that there must be something wrong with AGD products.

Example: During last season I heard a rumor from my dealer: "the AGD's team Jax Warriors doesn't play with EMags, they play with Mags with Hyperframe". Of course I knew what's the reality because I read AO but the ex-cocker owner who wants to move to electro doesn't know. He may ask from the dealer "is emag any good or should i go with angel?" and the dealer tells the above. You don't need to be a genius to predict what gun the guy buys next.

[virus]

hmm.... this does sound like it could get interesting.....

Timebomb
i think this is supposed to be more in fun then anything else.... besides where else could those of us, that have no chance of otherwise playing in the nppl (the supposed best tournies with the best players) and do it on a factory sponsered team...... besides even Tom said "we would probly be in dead last, but we would be there"
back to tom and the rest

i for one wouldn't mind the chance to do this..... it would give me a reason to burn some of my vacation time (in other words i should almost always be able to go)
but a couple of questions for you Tom....
being a "factory team" what costs would AGD be covering and what would be our out of pocket expences.....
i would assume that entry fees you would grab(myself i never glaced at what they are for the nppl) but who buying the paint and travel expenses......

i think for us the players a perfect world would be AGD pickin it all up.... but that may not make good bussiness sense, but we cant expect you to foot the whole bill....

now i could be wrong... about this $$$ thing on the player end.... you have been way to nice to us in the past and you might pick up the whole tab, esp. seeing how you didn't want to go out and recruit for the nppl players out there now..... but i dont know what the factory end of this is orhow far you really are looking at going

ok typing for me right now... time to go work my 12 hour shift (soon to be 8 hour i hope)

[Manuel_FZR]

[Snooky]

Tom I would be honored to be slaughtered while supporting AGD just give me a gun and ill do my best. Although if you really want to turn some heads get together some really good people to goto all the turneys. But tom if u need a person to goto one of the turneys near chicago count me in i will go down with my head help up high.

[manike]

I'd play :) But I'm not sure it's the best idea. I've played on scratch teams for the World Cup, Skyball and Mardi Gras in the US and just about every leg of the Millenium series in Europe. As a scratch team we have always played with the right spirit and had a lot of fun, but we didn't often play in the pro bracket...

With the new bracketing system in the NPPL you would play mainly other pro teams. And get destroyed most, if not all, games very quickly. It was fun playing as a scratch team in the right bracket because we won some lost some and kept the right attitude. I'm not sure how many would be able to keep that attitude when being beaten often and quickly by pro teams.

I'm also not sure what the position of the NPPL Pro's would be on this. I know some would find it funny, but people in other divisions may resent other teams from having an obviously easier game. If that effects the tourny outcome you will get resentment? Who cares? Well valid point but what you want for marketing is a top team to be using your products, you don't want to be resented by them.

While it also may be very amusing for yourself (I've played with scratch teams in pro divisions when there was no-show) it may not necessarily gain the results you wish it to. It was amusing for us when we did it and we held a few pro teams to close things, but ultimately we didn't get any respect for it. Many people get disheartened quickly by getting regular stuffings from the pros. Not that many people can take being non-stop cannon fodder.

I would suggest picking a top Am A team and sponsoring them, it would be cheaper, and if you can get them into the pro bracket that would be great respect. It would also make people think 'well the equipment works' because they just moved up a bracket. Rather than heck it's s pro team just getting given stuff, or 'it's a rookie team in Pro getting creamed, I wouldn't want to use a losers kit'... Some people won't know it's a rookie team in pro, They'd just see an AGD team getting stuffed and make assumptions...

But if you wish to put a fun team into big events and have someone like Manny and others 'guest' then I think that would be great. Let people play in a sensible bracket and have a chance. I played at the World Cup and we had PGP guest for us, it was a great experience, we learnt from him and had a huge amount if fun in his presence. We also had Pat Spohrer (Guy who filmed push and plays for the family) play with us and again we learnt and had fun. They will feel better about themselves and what they are doing in the long run. If you started offering prizes for players to play with the AGD team then you would get more people here and more followers. A regular series of guests would make it very cool and the guys would get a chance to meet and play with some of their hero's.

I'd suggest big events such as Skyball, World Cup, NPPL etc.

One example I have it the Tippman teams, i.e. Tippmann Effect. These guys have huge respect for what they do with Tippmans in tournies. They have the right attitude and have followers because of what they achieve and how they play (hard). They don't make a mockery by entering the wrong division, they play good hard paintball. I would think that is a better way to pitch an AGD team.

I thought it a very sad day and a mistake when I heard the Jax Warriors were no longer going to be a gun sponsored team. After all, the gun a player uses is the first thing others notice when they watch them play. How are people described on the field? 'That guy with the cocker', behind the can, or the 'angel dude in the snake'.

You don't really want people saying that bunch of idiots with E-mags playing in the pro division, do you? Just my opinion, but I have been long known as a scratch player and the Tart of guesting paintball teams :)

manike

[Maghog]

Well, I see a couple of people writing from Europe as I am here from Germany.
I think we should form a European AO team, and show up at the world cup, and other millenium events.
I don't know if you guys already have teams you play with, or how serious you are about playing.
I don't care as much about winning as I do about having fun, and I think it's great that Tom wants to do something like this. I don't believe it's a bad idea at all, or that it could reflect badly on his company in any way, win or lose.
In fact I think it will make AGD more popular, especially since the AO family has such a strong bond already. Screen names would become personal acquiantances and possibly good friends. At the very least, it would help to spread the word that AO is more than just another forum.
I bet I could get sledgehammer to go, and I don't know if manike is already on a team in the millenium series or not, but if we could focus on doing just one event a year,
nothing that gobbles up all our finances or too much time, (I don't think Tom will want to sponsor more than one team, but maybe we can get some shirts out of it or something to make it look professional)we could just see where it goes from there.
To all of you that say we would just lose...where's your spirit?!?! You only lose if you don't try.
I would love to play in larger events, and I'm looking to join or form a team as it is. Having a team playing in the name of AO would be an honor, not to mention the fact that I love playing with people who have mags.
If anyone else is into AO Europe, let me know, I'm there!!!

[Maghog]

There's manike! But I'm sorry to hear his outlook is slightly dismal.
I would say for sure that I can handle the cannon fodder thing, I've been there and I've gotten better because of it.
I respect your opinion manike, especially since you've done it already and you know what the pitfalls are. Your experience could be very helpful to an AO team.
You said it yourself though, attitude is the key, and if people can't approach this with the right frame of mind, it can't work.
I know that losing isn't a big factor for me, I'm just happy to be there and give the best I've got. In the end, it's up to the people who want to get involved to know if they are able to take the pressure.
As far as playing with the pros goes, it doesn't make much of a difference to me who the opponent is.I've always believed that your game gets better when your opponent is better.

[luke]

Wish I had the skills to play on a Pro Team with Manny. :)

[Manuel_FZR]

Originally posted by manike
(...)
I would suggest picking a top Am A team and sponsoring them, it would be cheaper, and if you can get them into the pro bracket that would be great respect. It would also make people think 'well the equipment works' because they just moved up a bracket. Rather than heck it's s pro team just getting given stuff, or 'it's a rookie team in Pro getting creamed, I wouldn't want to use a losers kit'... Some people won't know it's a rookie team in pro, They'd just see an AGD team getting stuffed and make assumptions...

(...)

I thought it a very sad day and a mistake when I heard the Jax Warriors were no longer going to be a gun sponsored team. After all, the gun a player uses is the first thing others notice when they watch them play. How are people described on the field? 'That guy with the cocker', behind the can, or the 'angel dude in the snake'.

You don't really want people saying that bunch of idiots with E-mags playing in the pro division, do you? Just my opinion, but I have been long known as a scratch player and the Tart of guesting paintball teams :)

manike

[manike]

Originally posted by Maghog
There's manike! But I'm sorry to hear his outlook is slightly dismal.

Sorry about that, I've just done this many, many times. I think if we play in the right bracket then it would be great. Good for all concerned including AGD and the players. I just don't agree with playing in the pro bracket.

Originally posted by Maghog
I would say for sure that I can handle the cannon fodder thing, I've been there and I've gotten better because of it.

Yes and I know that I can and have also. But almost every scratch team I have played on, someone can't . Whatever they said before. And that's on teams that weren't very clearly in the wrong bracket.

Originally posted by Maghog
You said it yourself though, attitude is the key, and if people can't approach this with the right frame of mind, it can't work.

I agree 100%, I play for fun. I take it serious on the field and I play to win but it's all about the fun.

Let me give you an example. I often get landed as field captain due to a few years (10) tourny experience. If I'm field captain, we will never sit back and get walked, we will go out with an attitude and go for it. We played skyball and were against the bushwackers (top Am team), we had a strategy to get flag hang point off them, but it required players making their moves on cue (we had some hilarious cues! :) ). We went at them and our guy got the flag just as he was lit up (didn't count) but we went at it and had fun, the guy who got shot respected it was a good move and it was hilarious for us all. I think you can actually see the film of that game on PigTV skyball 2000 (we were the Warpig team PIGCHAT). It was the right attitude and at that event, even though it was the worst ever Skyball. We came the highest out of all the scratch internet teams (I'd never met the other players before in my life! (nor had they) Actully except Bill Mills who I knew already. I walked passed them on my way to the bar at the start... ) Even though he got shot that guy understood it and enjoyed it. He lasted just 30 seconds but talks about it as one of the best games of the weekend. That's the right attitude.

I then played World Cup, again we were out for attacking and getting points. I'm a believer in breaks. One game our front guy makes his break makes it and we play hard and win, great! Next game he gets shot on the way in. It happens . Next game he gets set but stops short. Like way short. Leaves a whole side open. When you are playing 5 man and have a team plan set, each man is very important) We get creamed. He said he didn't think he could make it (should have said before the game started, but not a problem onto the next game).

He says he'll do it for the next game. Stops short again, we get creamed. Next game I've been watching the field all week and we have to get the 50's or it's all over. He breaks for the important 50 and stops short. I go right passed him and take it (I'm a back player!) and I proceed to shoot 4 pots from a front position before getting taken, he gets shot about 30 seconds after I went passed him... (we won the game due to some amazing play by PGP from the Jax Warriors who was guesting for us). The player who kept stopping from trying the team plan was the only one to ***** about losing, he would get angry with the whole team play for not winning. Everyone else sucked it up and had fun, a HUGE amount of fun. But after his continual whining it started getting to other players. Afterwards he admitted he stopped short because he didn't want to get shot early, his whole idea of being good was not being the first one shot out. If that meant he sat at the back then he was happy... I pointed out most of the times he stopped short the whole team got shot out early anyway. In my opinion he didn't have the right attitude about what we were doing and why we were there.

He wasn't happy though, we actually won a lot of games and lost a few (I think it would have been worse if we had lost them all), but he still wasn't happy with that performance (it was his first big event, I'm not sure what he was expecting). I don't think he would have been able to take losing all the games. I on the other hand met a lot of friends, played paintball, got a tan, drank a few beers, talked tech, and had a fantastic week. I know that I could put a group of people together that would go play pro and enjoy it whatever happened. Because I know those guys. It's not as easy when it's a group of people you do not know, especially if there is any pressure on them.

If we were playing the pro's I'd expect to lose people on the breaks, but that shouldn't stop us from trying next time!

I wouldn't want to play against the pro's in a team of guys that stopped short, you have to have the right attitude at whatever level you play. If and when I play against the pro's I want them to see us in their bunkers. I want to go at it with the right attitude. If that means getting taken early or often I know I can handle that. I also know that not everyone can.

I would love to play in a team with Manny. He does the most amazing breaks I have seen in my life and he wears bright orange to distract the opposition from the rest of his team while he does it. I have the biggest respect for that. He has the right attitude and is a team player. That's what it is about. I have no doubt that if the right move was for him to break somewhere that meant he was always shot out in 30seconds but meant his team had a huge advantage then he would do it every time.

I have actually played Pro (In the UK I was part of the Mayhem Tigers about 5-6 years ago), I am no longer in a regular team due to work commitments though. I am starting to get back into one. I'm not sure what we are commited to yet next year (three guys just got made redundant ) But I am always up for a fun time. Dan if we do play any Millenium series events you are very welcome to join and play with us. I also often know of teams going short so may be able to introduce you to other teams. There are also quite a few German teams or teams from the area. I will put my feelers out and see who I can hook you up with. I certainly look forward to seeing you at some millenium events.

manike

[thei3ug]

I've done this once before, and it was probably the best experience I've ever had.

Course, we were'nt Pro...

[Gecko]

Tom
I think WPF is starting a new 10 man leauge. I know i have 2 mabye three guys who would play with AO. The league is just starting so hopefully we would have a decent chance.
Gecko