'Lil something to share with you guys...

[Army]

Picked this of COL Hackworth's site. In case you don't know who the Colonel is, he was the most highly decorated soldier out of Vietnam to include; multiple Silver Stars, multiple Bronze Stars, multiple Purple Hearts, and handfulls of nearly every other combat and performance medal/ribbon available. He also is a vet of the Korean War, where he began his illustrious career. He retired in disgust and dismay at the military industrial complex, which seemingly governs the how-where-why-when of Pentagon decisions. Get his first book: About Face, and read of this Hero's life and times in the Army.

Anyhoo, check this out, it reflects my personal statement on the silly new beret we will be forced to wear:

Ballad Of The New Beret (In response to last week's Hack Notes: the tune will never go out of our heads; how 'bout these lyrics!)

Ballad of the Black Beret (to the tune of "the Ballad of the Green Berets")

Copyright J. Bartlett 2001

I see a boy, Army of one,
I notice that, he has no gun,
While others march, away he run,
SF I guess, wasn't much fun.

Our forces lie, in disrepair,
Good soldiers leave, out of despair,
The ones in charge, don't seem to care,
My boy will pay, when bugles blare.

Chorus
Upon his head, the Chinese Fez,
Load up your clip, with cherry Pez
How could it come, to this my prez,
Get up and go, the general sez.

My boy junior has a gun,
Black beret, but bullets none,
When it's time, we know he'll go,
With one hand tied, to Kosovo.

He might as well, have sling and rock,
Care for the troops, is so much talk,
Chinese fez, upon his head,
Won't do much good, against hot lead.

Chorus
Upon his head, the Chinese Fez,
Load up your clip, with cherry Pez
How could it come, to this my prez, vGet up and go, the general sez.

My boy, junior, had a gun,
When fighting came, he didn't run,
They sold him out, those bunch of bums,
He might have lived, with a loaded gun.

Oh, Chinese fez, upon his head,
He bought the lies, the things they said,
They told us that, he would be lead,
He tried his best, but now he's dead.

Chorus
Upon his head, the Chinese Fez,
They play a tape, he's laid to rest,
How could it come, to this my prez,
It's not our fault, the general sez.

.

Look at www.hanoijane.net if you want to get tweaked off.

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Got Elves?

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Got Elves?

[shartley]

[beam]

Army---

i went to the hanoijane site, but i can't figure out what went on. what is the thing with jane fonda....visiting vietnam or something? sorry. but could you just sum up what that is all about? thanks.

beam

[Army]

Oh beam, now you made me feel really old!

Jane Fonda, fresh from her B movie "Barbarella" and a short career in French soft porn, went to North Vietnam, Hanoi, Haiphong harbor and the infamous "Hanoi Hilton". While there, she did TV and radio speeches for the foreign (european mostly) press. A horrific photo of her was published, showing her looking through the sights of an anti-aircraft gun while wearing a Soviet style helmet, and smiling. She commented, before visiting American POWs, that she sympathized with the downtrodden peoples of Vietnam, that "the US fascist led aggression was wrong" and that Nixon was a criminal. When she met with some of the POWs, one tried to pass a note to her to give to US officials. She was smiling when she handed the note to the prison guards, telling them that "the pig was trying to escape or something". That POW was beaten to near death later. Immediately following her Vietnam visit, she made impassioned speeches imploring that "if you really understood communism, you would do anything to become a communist".

Jane Fonda should have been tried for a treasonous act and hanged. Nearly all Vietnam veterans who were actually there (most that you hear of or know of, never went there) would gladly spit on her grave, after me.

Her father never forgave her.

Not too many years ago, she was filming in a small northeastern town. The local veterans of all wars disrupted filming at every opportunity by picketing loudly near every location. They ran her and the film crew out of town. hooah

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[fenris69]

fonda is a traitorous ...lady of ill repute...you know exactly what i wanted to write. and im not even american. people like that however sicken me. if theres justice something horrible will occur to her. feel sorry for her old pete tho...

Her father is HENRY Fonda, Peter is her brother

[This message has been edited by Army (edited 08-20-2001).]

[Thordic]

Yeah, I had a math teacher who hated her. He was in Vietnam (Captain in the Army Rangers). He did all sorts of stuff, but doesn't talk about it much. All the stuff he did tell me just made me go wow. Funny thing is, he was on the 'normal' side. There was another teacher there who was an MP the whole war, and barely saw combat. (He had to defend a base against a light attack once.) That guy was half out of his mind, while the math teacher was fine.

I guess it points to the difference between going through Ranger training and being drafted and preparedness for war, etc.

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CamoSplashed MiniMag
S/N MM12913
Clear AGD Warp Feed
14" SP AA

Lots of stuff coming...

[Army]

Thordic, there is a book titled "Stolen Valor". It exposes much of the myth and lies about so-called Vietnam veterans. Did you ever wonder why every VV you meet, was in the thick of combat? Only 8% of all personell in-country were combat arms, the rest were support ops. Why haven't we met, or heard from, any of the other 92%?

I raise the BS shield whenever I come across a guy who says he was in major battles "in the 'Nam". "...hell, there I was, knee deep in grenade pins, burning up the last of the fifty-cal firing from the hip and spraying the tree-line. I ran through the mine-field, since I was the only one who knew where the mines were, and captured that VC General. On the way back I grabbed my wounded buddy, threw him over my shoulder and while he kept firing at the Viet Minh with the Generals' AK-74..."

Whenever I see a raggedy guy in old fatigues, with tons of military type patches sewn all about and wearing a "boonie" hat, my first instinct is to think "POSER".

99.999% of men who have truly seen the horrors of combat and stared death in the face, will barely speak of it. The loudest, wildest talkers must be taken with a grain of salt, and a spoonful of doubt.

'K, off my soapbox!

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[Magadeth]

I played paintball with a guy who was supposed to be sf in nam. At first, I had the same reaction as you Army, but after watching him in action, I started to believe it. The clincher for me was after I got to know him, he was telling a story about his unit being attacked. When he got to the part about getting shot, he pulled up his shirt and showed us the scars. he wasn't bragging on them, just using them as a visual aid in a story that started out as an explanation of tactics. I've got to say I have utmost respect for him and all other combat vets.

Personally, having been shot just about everywhere possible playing paintball, I have 0 desire to be involved in the real thing.

[shartley]

[Army]

Magadeth: I've got a swell scar on my stomach, and I'm missing a couple of digits which could easily be transformed into "combat injuries". There were very few actual SF combatants. The Job of the Green Berets in Vietnam was to teach the indiginous population better ways to grow their rice, proper care of a water buffalo, basic modern first aid, and how to defend themselves. SF troops did NOT go looking for a fight, and did all possible to avoid one. An A-team was only but a handful of men, no way they would be brave enough to tackle a company sized element!

Not to "diss" your friend at the field, but do you know enough military tactics to judge what he is doing? I do not know him, so I shouldn't really comment, BUT(!) how old is he? He should be between 52 and 62 years old. Given that; after enlisting or being drafted at age 18, going through 1.5 months of basic training, anywhere from 1-15 months of AIT (depending on your MOS), and THEN if you are chosen, you go to SF qualifications, but only if you have achieved the rank of SPECIALIST 4 or Sergeant E-5. SPEC 4 takes minimum of 15 months to achieve. Back in '72 this was 4 months long. If you can pass the quals, you are now eligible to try out for SF! Now, you must have already passed a number of mental and psychological tests by this time to show that you are level headed and can think under pressure. If you are chosen to try out for SF, you will now go to Ft. Bragg for at least 1 year total, depending on the assignment in SF you want.

Now I'm only guessing the guys age, as he is playing paintball, which is not geared toward upper middle aged folks (stop iiit, I'm only middle aged!). So, with using logic from reading your post and using my timeline, the youngest he could be is close to 52 years old. Clincher in all the above I have written, is that all ground troops had been pulled out by August of '73, including ALL SF personel. My timeline has him SF in the states at best.

Now I may be absolutely wrong of course, but I have seen and talked to too many "been there, done that" kinds of guys telling guys like you all about their combat days. Just like Shartley says, after seeing the blood and gore and horror of battle, you don't want to remember it again to a bunch of kids who wouldn't understand.

"whew"

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[MagMan5446]

I've never actually heard a war story. The first and only time I asked about it, the response I got was "you don't want to hear about it".

Most of my family is or was in the military. Only one was in battle on the ground. All the rest were in the Navy, and my grandparents were in the Air Force. My grandparents were in WWII. The Army Ranger in the family was in Vietnam, 3 uncles were also in Vietnam. 1 was in Air Force, one was a grunt in the Navy(the only one that was drafted) and one was on the Halavec(submarine). All of them have seen and participated in battle, and have the scars and medals to prove it.

The only time that I asked was when the whole family was at my grandparent's house down south. Everyone could talk about it except the one that served on the Halavec. They all said the same thing, "You don't want to hear about and I don't want to talk about it."

[cphilip]

Hey Shurtly...what program do I use for an .ra file?

Phil

[shartley]

Real Audio. Comes standard with most Windows Systems. But you can get a free player on their site, if you don't have one...

http://www.real.com/

[cphilip]

Dooooohhhh!

[cphilip]

Well...Sam...there is a reason all Karaoke machines are in Bars. I'll listen to it again when I'm drunk... (j/k )