Taking apart my ReTro valve for 1st time, need help guys...

Now, before I actually do this, I have to know something. Can I cause damage to the valve/regulator by opening everything up? And the reason I'm going to take it apart is because I want better consistency. I am getting like +/-7 or 8 right now. Will taking it apart and making sure everything is in good shape fix this velocity fluctuation? Or will I be taking it all apart for nothing?

Assuming I cannot harm anything and replacing some things will help my velocity consistency, lets get on with the internals. What sort of things should I look out for? When will I know what needs to be replaced? Coloring? Thickness? Flexibility? For example, my bumper right now is yellow-ish in color, does that mean it needs to be replaced?

When taking apart the valve, can I follow the old maintenance video? Or is that too outdated? What changes are different now? What tools should I have handy when taking it apart? Should I oil everything? Only somethings?

Sorry for all the questions, I just don't wanna screw anything up...

If you are worried about velocity, just change the reg seat. The rest of it, I don't know(as I don't have a ReTro Valve;) ).

To start off, degas the gun and remove the valve. Next, unscrew the black half of the valve and set it aside.

Now what you want to do is gently lift up on the brass piece with four cross hatch cuts in it. There will be an o-ring stuck in the top of this piece or it will be stuck in the center of the black half. Clean that o-ring with a soft rag and set it aside. With the brass piece off, wipe down it down, especially the back side to remove any dirt that as accumulated on it. There will be an o-ring in the silver part of the valve under where the brass piece was. Pull that o-ring out and replace it if it is discolored or really dirty. That's the reg. seat o-ring and it will directly affect your velocity consistency.

Now, with your fingers lift up on the stem, which is the reg. valve pin. It is usually stuck in the valve and will require you to wiggle it a bit and pull hard to get it out. Now, clean off the o-rings on the end of the stem. There will be a plastic spacer inbetween the two o-rings. Yes, it is suppose to have a slit in it. Clean off the stainless part of the stem that contacts the reg. valve pin. Oil the o-rings and put it back in the valve. Oil the reg. seat and put that back in. Then, place the brass piece back on top of that o-ring with the four cross hatch cuts facing out towards you. Oil and put that small o-ring into the brass piece.

Now, unscrew the velocity adjuster all the way and out will come two large coil springs. Set those aside, they should be covered in grease. No need to put more grease on them. Take a toothpick and press it through the hole in the front of the reg. body and that will press the piston out. Wipe down the piston making sure to clean the o-ring. Take a cotton swab and clean off the surface that the piston o-ring sits on. Oil the piston, put it back in, drop the springs in and thread on the velocity adjuster. There's a notch in the velocity adjuster right before the o-ring. Tighten it just to the point that you don't see that notch. That should be enough to get it to fire and then you can chrono it later.

Now that we have the back half of the valve done, now it's time to take apart the on/off assembly. You can pull it out with your fingers. There will be an o-ring that comes out stuck on the top of the on/off pin or it will be in the bottom of the on/off hole. You can pry that o-ring out with a toothpick or dental pick. Clean it off, inspect it and then replace it or oil it and put it back in. Now, take two cresent wrenches and clamp one on the on/off top and one on the on/off bottom. Just a little bit of force and you can unscrew the top piece from the bottom piece. Inside the top piece will be a really small o-ring. That o-ring likes to collect dirt, so take it out and clean it and oil it. Now screw the top back onto the bottom piece and gently tighten the two with the wrenches. Wipe down the on/off pin and put a bit of oil on it. Place it back in through the top of the on/off assembly and then press the assembly back into the hole.

Last thing to clean is the PT o-ring. This o-ring collects a lot of dirt too and takes a lot of abuse. Unscrew the PT tip with a nickel and set it aside. Drop out the spacer by shaking the valve upside down. Pull out the PT o-ring and clean it off or replace it if it looks like it's in bad condition. An o-ring in bad condition is usually really dark in color and stiff or cracked. Oil that o-ring, oil the o-ring on the PT tip and put it all back together. PT o-ring first, spacer second and PT tip last.

A few things to do after you get it all back together. Put it in the gun and gas it up. If you don't hear the gun click or the gun doesn't shoot, Tighten the velocity adjuster until you hear the click. Then chrono in the gun and it should be shooting fine. Make sure to put some oil in your ASA and then gas up the gun and cycle it with the barrel off to circulate oil through the valve. Do NOT use metal objects such as screwdrivers or anything similar in your valve. The only thing metal that should come near the valve is a dental pick if you have one to remove o-rings. As long as you're careful, you won't cause any harm to the valve. There are no fragile parts you need to be real careful with. Just take your time and pay attention to what you're doing and assemble it properly and you'll be fine.
Good luck and let me know if this helps your consistency.

Look at how nice BlackVCG is. Tells step by step how to do it.

Damn Black, bored much.

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Originally posted by SlipknotX556
Look at how nice BlackVCG is. Tells step by step how to do it.

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I try...

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Originally posted by obsolete898
Damn Black, bored much.

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And that took me about 10 min to type up. Knowing this stuff without even having to think about it and being a fairly fast typer helps a bit. I'm just trying to help you guys out with my knowledge. The day nobody appreciates the help I try to offer is the day I'll leave and stop bothering you guys by posting.

Hey I appreciate it, but it would take me a good while to type that.

Black, you rule man! Today I'm gonna print that out, sit-down, and have a lil session with my mag. Thanks a ton, and I"ll let you know how everything works out!

printing this one....

thanks black that'll help a lot.

i agree...

thanks a bunch, black!

-alf

black black
he's our man
if he cant do it no one can

Thanks Black!

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Originally posted by BlackVCG


The day nobody appreciates the help I try to offer is the day I'll leave and stop bothering you guys by posting.

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NEVER!

FordPrefect- has anyone donated to you?

Now if only i had known that before I took apart my retro and caused it to explode in a 10 megaton nuclear type explosion *sigh*

Thanks for the info Black!

Legion












PS: J/K about the nuclear explosion thing, but still, directions are always better than guessing!

my retro mag was being kinda uncoisitant(sp) so i followed you direction now my gun as been going full auto thanx man you are the best. lol

I am a autococker user and have no clue how to take apart the RT valve. Black's detailed description of how to dissamble the valve was very helpful however I cannot seem to get the first step completed (uncrew back half). How in the hell do you uncrew it? The back end of my valve almost feels like it has been wielded shut. No matter how hard I try to turn it, it does not loosen. With what kind of tools should I use to help add more torque? I don't want to scratch up the valve body. Should unscrewing the black end be so difficult? Or is mine just weird...

Try unscrewing the velocity adjuster a couple turns. The force of unscrewing it might budge the valve threads a bit and make it easier to unscrew. If that doesn't work wrap the black part of the valve in a vise and wrap a sock around it or a piece of rubber if you have some. That should hold it tight enough and using both hands you can unscrew the silver part of the valve.

omg BLack I love you. My retro was leaking horribly and not responding at all. I did ur little thing and dNow I air up and magicly my gun rips. I ordered a new on/off cuz i thought that was the problem but the kid I bought my retro from is paying for it cuz he sent me a centerflag one so it dont matter. I also ordered a new reg seat should i put it tin ne way?

thanks black,

my valve was leaking down the barrel until i cleaned it per your instructions. turns out there was debris around the reg valve pin. it works like a charm now.

ok black or ne one who can help. I got response but only at like real low velocity( around 150) what am i doin wrong.

great job BLACK! Hey you should do a step-by-step vid or a post with pics+steps kinda like what miscue did for the lvl 10 vid! That would be soo cool.

I cant get the brass piece with the 4 cross hatches to come out! Any suggestions?

Take a toothpick or some other small pointed object and lift up on the side of it. It just needs to be moved around a bit and then it will come loose and fall off. The only thing holding it in is the o-ring friction.

magnj- The higher the velocity you shoot, the more pressure in the chamber and thus the more pressure you have to overcome when you pull the trigger. You just need to up your input pressure so you hit the valve with a higher pressure burst of air when it recharges. Check the output of your tank. It should be ~800psi.

Thanks black, will using pliers hurt it?

all the toothpicks r breaking haha, i tried using a plastic one and it just bent


Edit: nevermind i got it! By the way, in my frustration i made a newbie mistka and took the pliers to it, i dont think there are any scracths but can anyone tell me if this will cause any problems?

There shouldn't be a problem so long as you didn't mangle it with the pliers. Next time use a dental pick or something hard and thin. You should be able to lift up on it with your fingers.

I am printing this one for when my X-valve gets here ! And also has any one done something like this for the LVL 10 yet ? I will go do a search for it .:D

Will this way work with a 68 Automag (Minimag)?

can you take the on/off assembly out w/out takeing the valve and etc. apart?

yes

I have 2 older automags that I pulled out of the attic and I do not have the video, I have the manual, but it is kind of confusing and faded also. Could anyone (Black?) give me a walk through like Black did for the RT valve?

Thanks much,

Jetski

I have two mags and this will help no end thanks bud. :bounce:

4 years later thanks Black , just got my first mag an r/t i need the education

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Originally Posted by OrangeDude

great job BLACK! Hey you should do a step-by-step vid or a post with pics+steps kinda like what miscue did for the lvl 10 vid! That would be soo cool.

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I aggree thanks for the info any good with armageddon regs?

just had to post in this thread so I can find it easily when i have to take apart my retro.

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Originally Posted by BlackVCG

I try...



And that took me about 10 min to type up. Knowing this stuff without even having to think about it and being a fairly fast typer helps a bit. I'm just trying to help you guys out with my knowledge. The day nobody appreciates the help I try to offer is the day I'll leave and stop bothering you guys by posting.

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You wrote it in 2002 dude and I am following it to rebuild my mag in 2008 does that tell you how much you're appreciated!
The reason I bought a mag is this forum! (and cause it's such a cool marker) :clap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C_1nufgDmU

and used again in 2010! awesome post!