Disgusted with Pro-Team

The saga of my Micro E-Mag just took a turn for the worse. On 7-23 I sent it back to PTP because it would not fire in E mode (solenoid clicks, doesn't release the sear) I finally got it back today (8-13). Shot first hopper of paint through it, all is OK, second hopper, chop a couple balls (PMI Premiun's) and it begins to NOT FIRE in E mode (same problem, different day). I can't express to you all how upset I am. I really wan't this gun to work, but now I'm left with having to send it back to PTP, and they obviously don't know how to fix it! I will give them an earful in the morning!

Russ, in posession of $1,124 worth of beautifully annodized JUNK!

Here is the saga of my Pro-Team Products Micro E-Mag…

June 28 – Ordered a Micro E-Mag from 888paintball after a long search for a top end marker. It was a tough choice between an Angel and the eMicro/E-Mag. I went with the eMicro because of AGD and Pro-Team’s reputation for customer service and reliability, it has a real nice anno job and I like the fact that it’s made in the USA.

June 29 – 888 sends me the wrong color (here we go!)

July 2 – I ship it back to 888paintball

July 11 – I get the right one from 888 (Wild Tiger anno pattern) It fails to recharge after a shot. I speak with a tech (Earl) and he has me shorten the on/off pin. Gun shoots OK.

July 15 - I play with the gun for the first time and I’m very impressed with it.

July 17 – The gun begins to fail to fire in E-Mode. Many more calls are made to PTP and I decide to mail it back, after I play on July 22 in Manual Mode only.

July 23 – Gun is shipped back to PTP. My cost, $22. Earl (the tech) says that the gun only needed to be oiled, and he fired the heck out of it with no probs. I HAD oiled the gun. I’m concerned…

Aug 13 – Gun returns from PTP. After 1 hopper full of paint, the gun fails to fire in E-Mode. Click goes the solenoid.

Aug 16 – I ship the gun back to Pro-Team AGAIN ($24)

Aug 21 – Pro-Team tech (Earl again) calls me to say that he can’t fix the gun and he’s decided to ship it to Airgun Designs (AGD) for repair. I call AGD and they figure about a 2 week turn-around time on the gun…

Sept 6 - AGD ships gun back to PTP, next day air.

Sept 10 - PTP ships gun FedEx 2 day

Sept 11 - Gun is caught up in transit due to terrorist attacks.

Sept 14 - Gun arrives! I shoot 1000pb's thru it, with no probs. (It ain't over yet!)

Sept 15 - I gas 'er up, and the solenoid only goes click, click, click! WTF

Sept 16 - I call AGD. Their techs offer to check out the gun, and offer to cover return shipping. I contact PTP. After 6 days of phone calls, PTP and I work out a deal to replace the MicroE with an AGD E-Mag. Costs me ANOTHER $24 return shipping.

Sept 25 - An AGD E-Mag, in Tequila Sunrise Fade annodize, arrives! PTP exchanges my green warp feed for a red one, exchanges the Pro-Dot sight as well.

Nov 19 - PTP sends me one of the new Armson SSR barrels, free of charge, for my troubles (and return shipping charges!). I am now satisfied with PTP, and have been enjoying the AGD E-Mag since it has arrived. It has performed flawlessly. Life is good :cool:


The End :D

Or get an E-mag? They're even cheaper.

[This message has been edited by Load SM5 (edited 08-13-2001).]

Stick with AGD, just get the E-mag instead of the E-micro. Who knows what they do to them over at PTP. Don't get an Angel. Nothing wrong with them, but in my opinon, and others, the E-mag is much better.

An AGD E-Mag is still an option, but first I gotta get my money back from PTP. I hope that's not too much of a hassle.

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Micro E-Mag in Wild Tiger ~ Conquest 88/4500 ~ PTP Warp Feed
Spyder TL+ ~ LP ~ eLCD ~ AGD Flatline ~ Warp Feed
TL+ ~ a few mods
Bob Long Millennium
ICD ThunderCat

As far as I can tell PTP just throughs the AGD Internals in an aluminum more compact frame that accepts cocker barrels. Tough break man. I would just go for a AGD E-mag. It is cheaper and probably better quality. Just my 2 cents.

Nick

Well I called Pro-Team today. They want to take another look at the gun. It seems to me that when the solenoid heats up a bit (say, after 300 or so shots) it becomes too weak to pull the sear down. The sear also seems to bind up in the body, as if there is a mis-alignment problem. I'll ship it back to them again tommorrow. The tech Earl says he will try another trigger frame to see if that helps. I wish he'd done that the first time. So the saga continues...

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Micro E-Mag in Wild Tiger ~ Conquest 88/4500 ~ PTP Warp Feed
Spyder TL+ ~ LP ~ eLCD ~ AGD Flatline ~ Warp Feed
TL+ ~ a few mods
Bob Long Millennium
ICD ThunderCat

Good luck with that, keep us updated.

...and to add to the Saga,

Earl (the infamous Pro-Team tech) calls me today with "good news and bad news." The good news is that the power tube has come seperated from the valve body, and he THINKS that's the prob, (that's the good news?) Bad news, The gun has to go back to AGD because he can't fix it. He also says he can't replace the valve with a new one, because AGD's shipment of valves is 3 weeks behind. Also say's that they (PTP) can't replace the gun because they have no valves in stock, and thus can't build a gun for me. I hear what they CAN'T do. I'd like to hear what they can do for customer service. 4 weeks without the gun, 2 trips to PTP, 1 trip to AGD, and perhaps 2 or 3 more weeks to go before I get the gun back! PTP now blames AGD! Like I said before, the gun didn't fire right out of the box. Pro-Team Sucks.

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Micro E-Mag in Wild Tiger ~ Conquest 88/4500 ~ PTP Warp Feed
Spyder TL+ ~ LP ~ eLCD ~ AGD Flatline ~ Warp Feed
TL+ ~ a few mods
Bob Long Millennium
ICD ThunderCat

In a related story, I sent my PTP warp feed to them for repair, because one of the legs on the blue adjustment pot was broken, and the warp didn't spin unless you held the white button down.

I sent it down after calling them.

2 weeks:
I call and talk to the main guy, he says that the shop that does the repairs is way behind on their work. At the time, I had the custom emag with built on warp, so no biggie.

3 weeks:
Same old song and dance, they can't figure out why the warps are taking so long.

4 weeks:
They are at a tourny all week.

5 weeks:
I pitch a fit, and am offered a new PTP warp in my choice of colors to make up for it.
I choose red, and am assured it will be shipped the next day.

5.5 weeks:
No warp, so I call down there and get the tracking number.

6 weeks:
My box from PTP arrives!!! Woohoo!!

Box opened:
Guess what? It's the same clear warp I sent down, with the same problem. As far as I could tell, it had never been touched.

I did my own soldering (which I should have done in the first place), and got it working. I then sold it to someone who immediately got Rob_AGD to do the angel mod to it.

Thus ends my purchasing career with PTP.

https://www.automags.org/ubb/frown.gif
DR

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Owned a PF mag in 96.
=)

Sadly, when a PTP/AGD hybrid gun is bad, it reflects poorly on BOTH companies. Perhaps Tom needs to have a talk with his "Buisness associates"?

It's frustrating to have spent so much money on a product that has never worked right, and then get jacked around by everyone you speak with on the phone. (BTW, they have not responded to any of my e-mails)Damn, I'd REALLY like to get a refund on this POS, and get on with playing some paintball!

------------------
Micro E-Mag in Wild Tiger ~ Conquest 88/4500 ~ PTP Warp Feed
Spyder TL+ ~ LP ~ eLCD ~ AGD Flatline ~ Warp Feed
TL+ ~ a few mods
Bob Long Millennium
ICD ThunderCat

Umm, I had the Powertube separation problem on my ReTro, KayleAGD fixed it in about 30 seconds with some red loctite when I was at IAO. The powertube screws back on. I'm damned sorry you're getting jerked around like this.

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Mykroft Holmes IV
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My Mags:
CF11023, Classic Feed, 16" CP .689, 14" JnJ Stainless, Ring trigger, WGP Reg, Diamond Labs Ti Reg Adjuster.

VV00614(Valve)/VV00423(reg), Black Teflon HR Powerfeed, 16" SP AA,14" JnJ Ceramic, AGD Intelliframe Blade, Benchy Crossfire cradle/on-off, black foregrip, Macroline.
PMI 48/3K Preset HPA


"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch" R.A.Heinlein - 'The Moon is a Harsh Mistress'

I agree about the red loctite, but I feel that "Earl" just doesn't have a clue about what's wrong, (I believe it to be a bad solenoid) and figures to blame AGD and send it off to them for repair.

I would just send it directlt to AGD if they would let you. When I called them about my Pro-Team warpfeed they said they would fix it, so I bet theyd do it for ur Micro Emag too.

ENDO!

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well these posts killed any chance of me buying ANYTHING EVER from PTP...well atleast i now know...and i am sorry to the people that have been and are being jerked around by them...

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~Bub~

"It ain't braggin' if you can back it up."
-Dizzy Dean

Ok guys a few things.

#1 We (techs) are not supost to locktite PowerTube tips back on because that isnt always a long term fix. We generally tell people they need to send them back to the factory to be soldered back on.

#2 If you have been taking the Mirco Emag apart with out taking the sear pin out of the rail you can bend the rod the plunger is on. I have had to straighten more thne a few of those because people remove the c-clip and just pull the sear with teh rail... Thats a Big no no.

And there is a reason I dont like working on PTP stuff. Just Ask BlackVCG about MicroMags We had fun giving him all of them at IAO as a little tech geek humor https://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif

-Robert

MajorDamage,

The gun was sent to AGD by the Pro-Team tech. I guess you missed that part.

RobAGD,

The length of the the rod plunger was set at .218 from the factory. The tech had me set it to .175,the setting he has found to work best.

The on/off was too long from the factory, and the gun wouldn't recharge. It came .729 long, the tech had me bring it down, in increments of .005, to .680. I kept trying the gun after each cut.

The circlip was missing from the solenoid plunger, right from the factory! I didn't even realize that there should be one 'till the tech happened to mention it.

The sear is not a carbide tipped, roller bearing unit. It's relatively soft and PTP's eMicro design doesn't allow enough room for the roller bearing.

Today PTP said they would call me in response to my request for a full refund or replacement on the gun. They had to speak with "the Boss" first. THEY NEVER CALLED! It's the lack of customer service/satisfaction that really bothers me the most!

[This message has been edited by Russ (edited 08-22-2001).]

If you charged the gun to a credit card, call the company and tell them you're having serious problems with the product. If you're within the time window (I think it's 60 or 90 days) you can challenge the charge to your account because of defective merchandise. Make sure to tell them how many times you've tried to resolve this with PTP.

It's a last resort, but if you're in danger of losing over a grand, I'd say the trouble would be worth it.

krafty

The reason they have you change all those specs is because thier bodys are off that much.. do the math.

AGD set the pin at .725 ish well they had you drop the pin down to .680 ( thats way out ) .045"

The rod length at .218 down to .175 is almost .045 again see a trend here ??

-Robert

Ok heres one for the Mob, we can all mass e-mail Proteam and tell them that we know of Russ's ongoing saga and we will reccomend to everyone not to buy or use their products. i have had absolutely no problems getting no BS answers from the techs (GODS) at AGD.

blackvcg, whats bad about micromags that causes you guys to not want to work on them? i have bought a micromag used and now im worridd that i just bought a pretty, but low quality mag wannabe. can you tell me the bad and if there area any, good points? thanks. also does anyone konw if the intelliframe will fit a micromag? i read that it didnt and i wanna know if its true, cause if it is i do believe i will be purchasing a real mag. hehe

Quote:

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<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by prikkaboo:
blackvcg, whats bad about micromags that causes you guys to not want to work on them? i have bought a micromag used and now im worridd that i just bought a pretty, but low quality mag wannabe. can you tell me the bad and if there area any, good points? thanks. also does anyone konw if the intelliframe will fit a micromag? i read that it didnt and i wanna know if its true, cause if it is i do believe i will be purchasing a real mag. hehe</font>

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Yeah, it will fit.

Dont worry about pro-team. these probs seem to be ALL isolated to the new micro-emags. ive never heard a thing go wrong with the normal micro's or cockers or anything else for that matter. kinda crappy but this stuff has to happen to someone somewhere...you just got the shaft of bad luck is all. i know...no consolation there...

MicroMags just have sloppy tolerances. I don't like the Benchmark frames that come with them and I don't like the way the body is designed. Almost every Mag I worked on was a PTP MicroMag. We had one MicroMag RT that needed a .765" pin because it was too reactive with any pin that was shorter. This was more than likely due to bad tolerances in the mainbody. They can be okay guns, but I'd much rather have to work on an AGD product.

russ, i feel for you man, i honestly do. thats a crappy(for lack of better word that wont be filtered out) deal for anyone to go thru. i dont know what i would do if i had to go without my gun for that long. all the tourneys and rec games i would have missed. what a nightmare. i hope you are able to work things out and get back on the field soon. as for me and ptp, after reading all this, they wont be getting any of my business unless someone can convince me other wise. which i doubt you can.

RT

Too bad I paid with a money order.

Just got off the phone with Pro-Team. They refuse to replace or refund the gun. Their stand is to "get the gun fixed, and if it can't be fixed, THEN will they explore other avenues"

What the heck is that supposed to mean? This has been a long and expensive "avenue" that I have been led down.

Russ,

Did you ever get this issue resolved with Pro-Team?

ralicea,

Yes, Pro-Team took care of me. On 9-25-01 they replaced the MicroE-Mag with a Tequila Sunrise Fade annodized, AGD E-Mag. They switched my green warp feed for a red one, and just the other day I recieved one of the new PTP/Armson SSR barrels. It took a while, and caused me much greif, but all is well now.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...001_edited.jpg

edit: pic added 5-12-7

Russ
I am glad everything is taken care of now. You have ended up with a nice looking Marker. Well, SWEET would be more accurate. ;)

On a brighter side.... I am sure everyone at Pro-Team Products are nice people, work hard, and are very dedicated to the Paintball Industry.

thats a pretty fine little gun u have there, glad everything worked out

OMG,

Im really surprised that your micro-E was a lemon like that. I have had my micro mag (not E, but getting the hyperframe soon) for some time now and have had absolutely no problems with it *knock on wood*.

Im even more surprised that the customer service gave you a long run around like that. when my friend stripped the holes on his ball detent off his micro, he sent it in to PTP and they patched her up and had it back fast in less than a week.

This truely is a nightmare and a shock to the AO community. Im glad you got a nice new toy, and that its shooting like a dream.

-Hyper