LPR integrated into forgrip

Lets try thin again.
Rules: Stay on topic and no flaming

Well i have a feeling Renie and I were thinking along the same lines at the same time. lol :) I have been wanting to do this for almost a year now and thanks to him it may become a reality. I also have permission from him to post this.

Some have suguested this design could get pinched but seriously it is a coppy of another reg in a new housing. This reg was the template as it is simple and the parts are easy to get.
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/a...g/100_0256.jpg
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/a...g/100_0255.jpg
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/a...g/100_1368.jpg

The point is to get something that will relocate the LPR from under the barrel or off the side of the asa to the forgrip and not look like an LPR.

This was my first idea
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/a...g/106_1317.jpg
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/a...100_1376-1.jpg


Now that looks good for what i used it for but wont work for an Ego Mag.

So I sketched this out using the internals from above.
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/DSC01585.jpg


Then the newest member to the Mag modding comunity, "Renie" privided this ruf cad to shw it is possible. :hail: He may be new here but the force is strong with this one. hehe

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b9/renie666/25.jpg


Any thoughts on the design or any other ideas are welcome. I considered using a Matrix LPR and designing it to just accept one of those, but think the parts I selected will be around and available longer than PPS.



:cheers:

Next Troll gets a Ban.

hey hill,

is there a way to make those parts in that reg, but smaller, maybe 50%?

maybe on a lathe or a mill?

for some reason i am confused on how a lpr works.
i see how i just dont understand it.

i took my tickler apart, got confused.

are you going to try and make your parts smaller?
or just take them out of regs and use them?

thanks,
KNM

when and if you make these im down for 2-5 of them.

For the most part he is just wants to make a new housing and use parts from a proven regulator.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by luke

For the most part he is just wants to make a new housing and use parts from a proven regulator.

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gotcha.

That is a possible plan but I need to find out if the diameter of the piston can be reduced without changing the shrader valve dimensions equally, I may be over thinking things. It would likely just need a stiffer spring behind the piston.

Renie may already know though.

in theory it should be possible to get the lpr down to about 10-12mm od but trials will tell :)

should be able to get the piston down to 8-9mm but it would make the lpr a little longer than say a tickler, as u will still need room for the low pressure air, but only testing will tell i may just make a straight lpr for now for testing purposes, that way it will give an idea on what it would need to be in a grip, only pain in the arse is shrader valves have there own thread, so im gonna have to order a Tap and there tapered which doesnt help :)

Here are the ruff drawings of the internals and there aproxamate sizes. This grip with LPR intagrated could be made as small as .75" thick by 1.125" deep by 2.5"tall. Thats Samall :eek: I would increase the thicknesses a bit though to be safe.
If the piston can be reduced in size it could get smaller.
http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/DSC01604.jpg

There is almost no volume needed due to the size of the pistons used and the fact that the recharge rate is made faster by the higher input pressure. So volume on the LP side is not important.

This design already has .60 cubic inches of volume then the lines. :D It shoots plenty fast enough to.

ill try and get something done tomorrow when the boss is out :)

How much will the tool cost to cut the shrader valve? I will cover it. :D

I also recommend you get in touch with y0da900 as he knows the tolerances for orings used in these types of devices, assuming you dont already do this at work all the time :D

$500 bucks ;)
only kidding im trying to source one online now :)

Schrader inserts are not my friend on LPRs. Most inserts don't have much of a pin guide and the pin wobbles a lot. I came across a Next LPR for a timmy that would work for a few shots, then fail to seal. I still have an old shocktech on a gen-e matrix with an insert in it, but those regs don't have a great reputation either. Modded a bit, it seems fine though.

Just make sure your pin on the insert is straight to start with, I found a new one that was bent.

So maybe lengthen the piston between the orings to keep it from wobbling as much? Also further dish out the end to cup and holt the pin more?

the aircon ones are better made :) and you can get higher pressure ones too :)

forgot you guys work imperial :) my pistons gonna be about 0.325 od :) so alot smaller than u think Hill :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hill160881

So maybe lengthen the piston between the orings to keep it from wobbling as much? Also further dish out the end to cup and holt the pin more?

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Probably not, just keep an eye on the alignment. Even though the HVAC schraders are rated for high pressure, it's more of an on/off service design instead of regulation. I would just be sure and test it before I hung an SMC070 off of it.

I tried two other different cores in that Next LPR and they all failed shortly after working initially. The superbolt LPR is another reg like that. That's why I distrust them all now. :rolleyes:

Hmm...an LPR made like a ULT would be $wanky. Kind of a miniature angel LPR.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spider-TW

Probably not, just keep an eye on the alignment. Even though the HVAC schraders are rated for high pressure, it's more of an on/off service design instead of regulation. I would just be sure and test it before I hung an SMC070 off of it.

I tried two other different cores in that Next LPR and they all failed shortly after working initially. The superbolt LPR is another reg like that. That's why I distrust them all now. :rolleyes:

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Thats smart. I had the one in the pictures above running at high rates of fire for around 20k rounds before the valve died. But it was 10 years old and a low pressure valve as well. all that would be needed to test it is an air supply and a full auto board and let it go until failure. Time it and do the math at the rate of fire to see how many rounds they handle. I could do it or renie could but he would need 900 psi input pressure to get accurate results. Its a long way but if he makes two of them and and sends me one, we both test it and that would provide better results. If the valve is not capable of this job we can go from there. But they are so cheap to buy and small, it would be great if we could find one that would hold up.

Also when my lpr went out the marker went full auto for three shots then the line blew off the noid. The noid is still fine and works like normal. :shooting: Probably lucky though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by renie

forgot you guys work imperial :) my pistons gonna be about 0.325 od :) so alot smaller than u think Hill :)

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That would be great.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by luke

For the most part he is just wants to make a new housing and use parts from a proven regulator.

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I hadn't really paid too much attention to the details above but this clears things up a bit.

Since this is the case, use the Micro Rock internals/design instead. Especially given the SMC noid's limit of 72psi, use something that will be the most consistent at lower pressures.

this is just a prototype but it will ne to be about 1/2" longer as the spring needs to be a bit longer and i want to increase the piston length also i need a short grub screw not a 1" one :)
the leftside(top) is tapped npt but it would work better being a male thread i done it like that so i could whackmacro straight in for testing :)
will try and get some air through it over the weekend :)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b9...1-27150654.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b9...1-27150721.jpg

Nice. Is the brass insert threaded or loctite'd?

***

You may need to square off that spring end, especially with one o-ring on the piston.

Its small like we need :headbang:
You may want to extend that piston and add another oring. We only need the schrader valve that will be used for the next version and testing can comence :D :shooting:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spider-TW

Nice. Is the brass insert threaded or loctite'd?

***

You may need to square off that spring end, especially with one o-ring on the piston.

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its threaded and loctited, its a temporary design whislt i await my tap for the schrader valve :)
the spring will be square on the final design this is mearly for test purposes :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by renie

its threaded and loctited, its a temporary design whislt i await my tap for the schrader valve :)
the spring will be square on the final design this is mearly for test purposes :)

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I cant wait to see the results :clap:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TwilightG

I hadn't really paid too much attention to the details above but this clears things up a bit.

Since this is the case, use the Micro Rock internals/design instead. Especially given the SMC noid's limit of 72psi, use something that will be the most consistent at lower pressures.

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The only problem is that leaves you getting a 40 dollar reg to make thit all work and the internals we are looking at are about 1/4 that cost.

I agree totally but think these valves are worth a try at the least.

Also I run all my mini smc noids at 80-85 psi. They usually start to leak at around 100 psi
:cheers:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hill160881

The only problem is that leaves you getting a 40 dollar reg to make thit all work and the internals we are looking at are about 1/4 that cost.

I agree totally but think these valves are worth a try at the least.

Also I run all my mini smc noids at 80-85 psi. They usually start to leak at around 100 psi
:cheers:

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True, Micro Rocks aren't cheap, but you get what you pay for.
As for the smc noids, the manufacturer rates them at a max operating pressure of 72psi. Sure, you may be able to squeeze out 10+psi more, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you should.

Not trying to derail the thread or anything, just offering some constructive criticism.

well its together and works so far so good :)a little sticking on the piston o-ring where the bores a bit tight so i'm going to open up the bore a little that should be ready for some proper testing :)

Has anyone considered the possibility of having a dual reg? One side 200-600psi and the other LP?

The thought of that makes my brain hurt. :p

It would be possible though.

I hope you guys come up with something that works, I need a small consistent internal lpr for my G-Force frame......all the small lprs I have used seem to blow hoses. As soon as I switched to a foregrip mounted rock lpr like pictured above, things were much better.

I hope you guys come up with something that works, I need a small consistent internal lpr for my G-Force frame......all the small lprs I have used seem to blow hoses. As soon as I switched to a foregrip mounted rock lpr like pictured above, things were much better.

Just an update. I will be getting back on this project as soon as I get through the surgery to remove the hardware from my left arm tomorrow, and get my car finished up. So two weeks or so. :D

good luck with the surgery bud, likeing the car project

any progress on this?

No I am swamped right now trying to work and get other projects finished up. Soon though I will get to it.