classic valve wont fire?

OK. I've been trying to get my wife's gun all setup and ready for Saturday. Issue after issue. Got my rt tuned up and working great even after its long hibernation. Not for the far newer gun. Bought a minimag, IFrame, and screw in 850psi output hpa tank. First I fill the tank and the nipple leaks. Drain. the tank and pull the nipple. Oring pinched. Replaced it with an automag on off oring. Works like a champ now. Then get air on the gun. Trigger pull feels stiffer than I remember. But its been a while. Pull the trigger. And nothing. Just springs back out. I've checked the sear pin and it is adjusted correct. It has an rt on off in it. And some odd after marked velocity adjust thumb screw. I hooked my adjustable tank to the gun with no luck. All orings and everything in the air valve are clean as can be. Only things I'm down to is..... bolt lodged somehow? But no air seeps down the barrel with trigger pulled. Not enough psi getting through the classic regulator for some reason? Anything I'm missing?

Does it fire with the barrel out, maybe severe bolt stick/ barrel interference. Power tube oring not lubed enough? Or level 10 carrier too tight? Just throwing ideas out there.... Good luck!

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I left out. Level 7 bolt. So even less potentials. It will not fire with the barrel off. Stiff smooth trigger pull. But no air down the barrel. No click of the sear locking the bolt back in place. Nothing. I really wish it had a factory adjustment nut on the back. Because I halfway wonder if the aftermarket piece doesn't have something to do with it. Not letting the velocity to be turned up. I just don't remember to many companies in the past making upgrade parts that were worth a crap. But even with that. I would think the bolt would spit forward some?Attachment 87564 this is the adjustment nut that I am talking about.

Humor me someone?

If you take the velocity nut off the back of the regulator. Pull the spring pack out. And use a small rod or something to push in on the regulator piston. How far can you push it in by hand in this manner? I ask because I can only push mine in 1/16 or so. Shouldn't this be able to push in farther than that?

Well, I didn't unscrew my reg nut since I just barely set my valve up/velocity... but if I unscrew the reg back and push the pin down to about where it should be seated, it travels about 3/16" past where the reg seat is... could probably go more but that's about where it feels like its going to stab thru my finger

Well the pin moves freely in and out. I'm just wondering if I can't bump the velocity on that reg up enough to actually fire. I'm stumped here. I would swear the sear just isn't moving enough to unlatch. But I've gone over that so many times my head hurts.

Is there about a credit cards width gap behind the trigger?

Im assuming unlike most of the gun whores around here that you don't have an extra valve to pull parts from? Did you put the on/off in yourself or was it already in the valve? Also, some of the obvious questions, do you have the rail bushing in? Enough air in the tank? Have you measured the on/off pin? Have you pulled it apart and made sure there are no crumbled O-ring bits blocking the passageways or errant thread tape peices anywhere? Have you tried backing the Field Strip screw in and out to see if that has an effect?

I use a classic automagRT. So I cant Swap anything really. 2k psi in both tanks. Checked every port. Clean as can be. I have loosened and tightened every bolt to try that. Alignment bushing is still in the rail. I have adjusted the pin for cc distance. And set it up flush just to try. It came with the rt on off. Or the factory one would be back in it. Only thing on your list is pin length. What should it be? I will check with calipers at 5 tonight.

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Originally Posted by blackdeath1k

I use a classic automagRT. So I cant Swap anything really. 2k psi in both tanks. Checked every port. Clean as can be. I have loosened and tightened every bolt to try that. Alignment bushing is still in the rail. I have adjusted the pin for cc distance. And set it up flush just to try. It came with the rt on off. Or the factory one would be back in it. Only thing on your list is pin length. What should it be? I will check with calipers at 5 tonight.

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Different size pins were used along the way. Should be about .750. Not sure if this could be the issue, but it sounds like the pin might be too short? Sometimes people pull the on/off out of an Emag valve and the pins are shorter.

How would too short keep the bolt from unlatching? I would have thought to long would hold the sear from releasing the bolt and too short would let air seep past when the trigger is pulled?

How long is the sear rod?

If the on off were too short wouldn't that cut off the flow of air to the dump chamber? Thus not pushing the bolt forward? Or am I thinking backwards here? Sorry I was up at 6 am with my baby.

It could be releasing the bolt but not enough air is getting through to push against the spring pressure?

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Originally Posted by blackdeath1k

How would too short keep the bolt from unlatching? I would have thought to long would hold the sear from releasing the bolt and too short would let air seep past when the trigger is pulled?

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Yeah, I could be backwards on that one. My thinking is if the pin is too short it doesnt push far enough in to get past the o-rings. Just throwing some things out to check. You said it a Minimag. Is it a Minimag body, stock AM/MM rail and classic valve? I know some of the Emag bodies that had the round pim on the bottom dont sit flush in the rail and can rock back and forth causing binding.

When you are airing up, are you hearing the sear click and set?

Something to try ... Assemble the mag without the frame. If you don't have shorter screws around, wrap the body and rail with some tape so it holds together. Try actuating the sear by hand and see if it shoots.

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Originally Posted by suaze

Something to try ... Assemble the mag without the frame. If you don't have shorter screws around, wrap the body and rail with some tape so it holds together. Try actuating the sear by hand and see if it shoots.

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You can also take the grips off and do this.

On off pin is .769
Sear is 2 inches front to back with calipers at this second.

No time on lunch to test anything else.

Oh! Its a factory rail also. Someone had asked and I forgot to respond to that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackdeath1k

On off pin is .769

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If the pin is this long, then it could be your problem. The pin should only be 0.750".


The mag with a level 7 should fire even if the pressure/velocity is low. Not firing is typically an issue with the front chamber not getting any air. Since you do feel pressure on the trigger, that is an indication that air is available at the on-off. Therefore, it sounds like an on-off issue where the pin is not clearing the top oring when the trigger is released.

The other issue would be if the bolt is stuck. You can check this by putting the valve into the mag without a bolt spring on it and don't add air. Hold the trigger, tip the gun forward and give it a bang on the back or side of the valve to see if the bolt will slide forward. If the bolt moves freely, then you know its not a bolt issue.

At the dentist now. I will check this out after they give me a new filling.

Filed the on off pin down to the .75 speck. Works like a top. Thanks guys.

Oh! Filing that little hard pin down kinda sux. Not much to grab ahold of.

Woot! Glad it was figured out. Now go play and have fun.

We plan to. I will chroney them after work tomorrow. If that goes smooth. It should be clear sailing from there for Saturday.