xmag not shooting in "E" mode

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10-25-2014, 05:23 PM
mixwell2

xmag not shooting in "E" mode

played 2 games then gun stopped working in E mode...switched to M mode and gun worked...then would work on and off....
Battery was fully charged, full tank, ACE has been disconnect since i had the gun.
I do get a trigger "ON" notification so i do not think its the magnet placement
10-25-2014, 07:44 PM
Cyco-Dude

the solenoid plunger and / or trigger rod lengths may be out-of-spec. measure them with some calipers to see if they are the correct lengths (specs are in a sticky in the tech forum). also, you may need to adjust the trigger to get it to trip the sensor properly while in e mode. you may wish to read the manual, as it will tell you how to adjust the trigger.
10-25-2014, 08:08 PM
mixwell2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyco-Dude

the solenoid plunger and / or trigger rod lengths may be out-of-spec. measure them with some calipers to see if they are the correct lengths (specs are in a sticky in the tech forum). also, you may need to adjust the trigger to get it to trip the sensor properly while in e mode. you may wish to read the manual, as it will tell you how to adjust the trigger.

The fact that the trigger shows"on" on the led means the trigger is tripping the HAL sensor.
As for trigger rod length how would that effect E mode?
10-25-2014, 08:41 PM
Cyco-Dude

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixwell2

The fact that the trigger shows"on" on the led means the trigger is tripping the HAL sensor.

on all the time, or every time you pull the trigger? can you hear the solenoid tripping when you pull the trigger?

Quote:

As for trigger rod length how would that effect E mode?

it shouldn't, but you said you were having issues in mechanical mode as well. can you elaborate on that? what was it doing, leaking? was the bolt not returning? was it just not firing at all?
10-25-2014, 08:47 PM
athomas

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixwell2

The fact that the trigger shows"on" on the led means the trigger is tripping the HAL sensor.
As for trigger rod length how would that effect E mode?

The trigger rod length wouldn't affect the operation in emode, but the solenoid plunger length would. If it is too short, the solenoid doesn't always have enough power to pull the plunger in when the battery gets weak.

You say the battery was fully charged. How old is the battery? Was it ever left for a long period of time less than fully charged? What is the fully charged voltage reading after the battery has sat for a while off the charger?
10-25-2014, 08:54 PM
mixwell2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyco-Dude

on all the time, or every time you pull the trigger? can you hear the solenoid tripping when you pull the trigger?

it shouldn't, but you said you were having issues in mechanical mode as well. can you elaborate on that? what was it doing, leaking? was the bolt not returning? was it just not firing at all?

Showing on with trigger pull as for mech mode it qould fire and then nothing then fire ok
10-25-2014, 08:56 PM
mixwell2

Quote:

Originally Posted by athomas

The trigger rod length wouldn't affect the operation in emode, but the solenoid plunger length would. If it is too short, the solenoid doesn't always have enough power to pull the plunger in when the battery gets weak.

You say the battery was fully charged. How old is the battery? Was it ever left for a long period of time less than fully charged? What is the fully charged voltage reading after the battery has sat for a while off the charger?

Battery left for about 4 months probably 4-5 years old but noo low battery indicator
10-25-2014, 09:03 PM
Cyco-Dude

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixwell2

Showing on with trigger pull as for mech mode it qould fire and then nothing then fire ok

hmm...maybe the bolt is sticking, and it takes a few seconds for it to reset? does it have a level 10 bolt? it may just need to be tuned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixwell2

Battery left for about 4 months probably 4-5 years old but noo low battery indicator

oh, if the battery was sitting for four months before you used it it was probably low. the charge eventually goes down over time. i would charge it before playing and then see how it does.
10-25-2014, 09:22 PM
mixwell2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyco-Dude

hmm...maybe the bolt is sticking, and it takes a few seconds for it to reset? does it have a level 10 bolt? it may just need to be tuned.

oh, if the battery was sitting for four months before you used it it was probably low. the charge eventually goes down over time. i would charge it before playing and then see how it does.

Just got tunned by tuna beginning of the year and i charged it for about 1 1/2 hours b4 playing
10-26-2014, 06:17 PM
athomas

How many charge cycles did the battery experience during its 5 year life? How was it stored during that 5 year life? A 5 year old battery is getting near its end of life anyway. This is especially true if it was used consistently, and/or stored at less than a full charge.

You can get a pretty good idea of the battery pack condition by measuring the battery voltage after a full charge. You need to have the battery sit with no charge or load for about 4 hours or more before taking the voltage measurement. The settled voltage should remain above 19.6V if the battery is good. As you start to use it, it will quickly drop to about 18.2V. As you use it, it will continue to drop at a fairly consistent rate until it reaches about 15.4V. It is considered dead at this point, and shouldn't be discharged below this value. It will quickly go to a lower value and once it reaches below 14V it could damage the pack.

Another telling feature of a bad pack is if the battery pack voltage dips each time you fire the gun. That means the internal resistance of the pack is high and the cells don't have any capacity. Its a hard one to measure if you don't have a storage scope or an analogue meter.

The indications for mechanical operation sure do point to bolt stick.
10-26-2014, 07:43 PM
NU_METAL

Quote:

Originally Posted by athomas

Its a hard one to measure if you don't have a storage scope or an analogue meter.
The indications for mechanical operation sure do point to bolt stick.

That,s correct ,its hard to measure batt voltage under load without an oscilloscope or an analogue meter. If you own a digital multimeter ,its not impossible for this task ,and it does try to capture the cylcing of up and down voltage during full auto , aired up .

I just went through this with my X-mag ( my particular problem ended up resulting in 2 failed battery's , under a load ! That's rite both of them !
I just kept telling myself " They are not that old " 1st one is 5yrs old , 2nd one is (?how ever many?) years old and gets hot when charging ,and never gets off the red ,full charge status . That one i suspected had a bad cell , set it aside ,called it bad for now . The 5 yr old KC battery held a charge 19.2 volts sitting around
This is what i did to test them under load , meaning aired up, in E-mode only .Set meter to DC volts
Put the red lead on one of the white solenoid wire soldered points on the board , Black on the board ground screw above the display ,hold down on the trigger on full auto ,
watch the numbers cycle . It happens very fast so watch for the lowest number during cycle ,trigger held,and highest number ,this was the data i got

5 yr old KC batt- 17.19v - resting Voltage / 11.57v trigger held down in full auto- garbage
old batt gets hot - 16.7v - resting Voltage / 8.26v trigger held down in full auto - garbage
brand new AGD batt- 20.01v - resting Voltage / 12.32v trigger held down in full auto -bingo ,never dropped below 12.32volt

this was the hard lessen that i learned. If batt voltage drops below 12.00volts , the solenoid is not going to be strong enough to pull plunger all the way down ! Until i checked these older batt's under load , i was convinced that a batt that holds a charge idle,sitting around if fine . Not true ,i would check battery if you own a multi-meter , to eliminate this and then move on if its not that .
solenoids do get weak after so many years ,but before you condemn one ,make sure battery is not to blame . that's what happened to me. Thought it was solenoid ,wound up just being a failing battery
10-26-2014, 08:41 PM
mixwell2

Quote:

Originally Posted by athomas

How many charge cycles did the battery experience during its 5 year life? How was it stored during that 5 year life? A 5 year old battery is getting near its end of life anyway. This is especially true if it was used consistently, and/or stored at less than a full charge.

You can get a pretty good idea of the battery pack condition by measuring the battery voltage after a full charge. You need to have the battery sit with no charge or load for about 4 hours or more before taking the voltage measurement. The settled voltage should remain above 19.6V if the battery is good. As you start to use it, it will quickly drop to about 18.2V. As you use it, it will continue to drop at a fairly consistent rate until it reaches about 15.4V. It is considered dead at this point, and shouldn't be discharged below this value. It will quickly go to a lower value and once it reaches below 14V it could damage the pack.

Another telling feature of a bad pack is if the battery pack voltage dips each time you fire the gun. That means the internal resistance of the pack is high and the cells don't have any capacity. Its a hard one to measure if you don't have a storage scope or an analogue meter.

The indications for mechanical operation sure do point to bolt stick.

Thanks for all the feedback guys ill test out battery. Yeah the battery is pretty old....more than 5 years and has been used t
Sounds like I've found the culprit.
12-09-2014, 02:08 AM
PyroFiend

My X and my Emag have been acting almost the same way. I just figured it was the solonoid getting old. I'm not super electro-techy, so this might be a send out job. Just to make sure they get fixed even if it isn't the battery.