Re: After the mag for AGD?
Quote:
Originally posted by Prairie
Well, in my opinion...I don't see the mag valve/blow forward design lasting another 10 years...I just feel something may come along and completely blow older designs like this and the cocker away.
Any thoughts on if AGD would move on with the rest of the world?
In the eyes of outsiders, AGD has been one step behind for awhile (RT when electro started, emag when electros were getting faster, efficient, consistent)
Opinions?
I just wanted to say I completely agree with you. AGD has some really innovative ideas, both now and in the past, but I think a lot of other companies do as well. I dont think the status of the Mag, and the invention of HPA tanks for Paintball, can still be considered as ahead of its time.
I think electro-pneumatic is where its at. The E & X-mag are great designs, but I think the Basic valve/reg design is going to begin to hold AGD markers behind. I could be wrong, but I think AGD has peaked with their design of the X-mag. Now sure, people back in the day could have said the same about the Classic Mag, but what else can you really do to The Electro Mag, without a complete redesign.
I would really like to see Tom venture off into another area of electro markers. I think his engineering is top notch. He's a really smart guy. I think the love of his current valve design is holding AGD back. Sure redesign, and research, and all the other bla bla bla involved in making another gun is tolling, but I think with Tom's skill, he has the potential to creat another gun that would shock the P-ball world.
Basically I'm saying I wouldnt buy another AGD electro. They're very good guns (my emag kicked ***). But there is too much out there, for me to limit myself to one design. However, like I said, I think Tom has one of the most brilliant minds in paintball. I'd almost be scared to see what kind of sucka-mowing-machine he could come up with next. Come on Tom! Push yourself! Impress us!
Re: Re: After the mag for AGD?
Quote:
Originally posted by JEDI
I would really like to see Tom venture off into another area of electro markers. I think his engineering is top notch. He's a really smart guy. I think the love of his current valve design is holding AGD back. Sure redesign, and research, and all the other bla bla bla involved in making another gun is tolling, but I think with Tom's skill, he has the potential to creat another gun that would shock the P-ball world.
Basically I'm saying I wouldnt buy another AGD electro. They're very good guns (my emag kicked ***). But there is too much out there, for me to limit myself to one design. However, like I said, I think Tom has one of the most brilliant minds in paintball. I'd almost be scared to see what kind of sucka-mowing-machine he could come up with next. Come on Tom! Push yourself! Impress us!
Dude, with all due respect, WTF? Do you have any idea what you've just said? You've basically just told the guy who invented the only PB valve TO HAVE NOT EVEN REACHED IT"S POTENTIAL to go back and build a gun on technology that has already been proven to be outdated? Doesn't make sense to me...
Anyhow, here is is the rest of my response to this thread...
Cphil is right about the RT valve - I've seen it on a dyno. No other marker (period) can come close to recharging as fast. It does not matter how fast the might CYCLE, if you really can pull 16-20 bps any other gun is going to shoot down on you (whether you notice it or not) and the RT won't.
Also, someone said that AGD has yet to come out with a LP gun - this MYTH has been settled time and again - there is no LP pressure!!! All guns (within a less then 10psi difference) put the SAME BLAST OF AIR BEHIND THE BALL. Just because the Air going filling the chamber is higher MEANS NOTHING unless YOU WANT IT TO FILL FASTER - which do you prefer?
It seems that every couple of weeks the same type of post comes up. As stated earlier in this one - AGD is so ahead of the time that the other STILL haven't caught up. To tell you the truth they MAY NEVER! If you have ever heard Tom's lecture on orings then you'd know that there are some companies that aren't so "smart" after all - since they can't even design a marker that functions correctly. As Tom has stated the Oring is atom of paintball - if you don't understand how it works how can you understand any of the rest of gun design? The other so called "engineers" working at other companies are no where near his league. Even Aaron Alexander (who semi-impressed me) still thinks that closed bolt guns shoot more accurately - how can that be?
The truth is that most people in the industry (consumers or producers) can't handle AGD's level of pioneering and have to "catch up" years later. Look at the Zgrip - how many years did it take WDP to knock off the idea? Now everyone is doing it. There are countless examples for this - power-feed, compressed air, "response triggers", etc.
-Calvin
Re: Re: Re: After the mag for AGD?
Quote:
Originally posted by cledford
Dude, with all due respect, WTF? Do you have any idea what you've just said? You've basically just told the guy who invented the only PB valve TO HAVE NOT EVEN REACHED IT"S POTENTIAL to go back and build a gun on technology that has already been proven to be outdated? Doesn't make sense to me...
Also, someone said that AGD has yet to come out with a LP gun - this MYTH has been settled time and again - there is no LP pressure!!! All guns (within a less then 10psi difference) put the SAME BLAST OF AIR BEHIND THE BALL. Just because the Air going filling the chamber is higher MEANS NOTHING unless YOU WANT IT TO FILL FASTER - which do you prefer?
-Calvin
Dude! Why dont you accept that there are opinions other than yours. Right, I told him to go back and design, you said "has not reached its potential"...well... wouldn't getting closer to its potential require REDESIGNING? Or are you suggesting Tom already has all the plans and ideas for Mags years to come?
And why is it, when it comes to any disadvantage in a mag, you hard core Mag fans are so quick to call it a "Myth". I've seen plenty of Fast guns recharge at an acceptable rate with no shoot down. Great, so in lab tests, the RT is the fastest. In real time gun in your hand shooting, who cares? I'd rather have a gun that shoots pretty damn fast, and requires only a 250 input, then a gun thats the fasted gun in the world :rolleyes: and requires 1000 psi input.
You're acting like no other gun performs well, and everything has rediculous amounts of shootdown. Low pressure isnt a myth. Let me see you shoot your Emag at insane rates of fire, on a tank with 400 psi left in it. My E-blade can. But notice, I didnt say it's better than your Emag. I'm just saying running a marker on something less than a bottle rocket is nice. Ok, your right, low pressure means nothing... than why did Tom redesign his bolt to be a "low pressure" bolt. Try sticking your finger in a non LX mag. My cocker pinched paint when it was stock out of the box. I can put my finger in the breach of and E-blade or impulse with no problem.
I'm so sick of the defense that there is no low pressure. You bring up all these insignificant arguements, but fail to compare 1000psi working pressure, and 250psi working pressure. Hmm... one of those sounds like LOWER PRESSURE.
Take your pissed off at everyone, I know everything- attitude somewhere else, and allow the rest of us to hold a decent conversation with out flaming.
Re: Re: Re: Re: After the mag for AGD?
Quote:
Originally posted by JEDI
I'm so sick of the defense that there is no low pressure. You bring up all these insignificant arguements, but fail to compare 1000psi working pressure, and 250psi working pressure. Hmm... one of those sounds like LOWER PRESSURE.
Thats just flat wrong... The working pressure is around 400 psi in the mag... Input is and can be the same as most any other marker. You completely forget the Mag valve is a regulator in itself. BUT with the unique ability to put full tank pressure into the Air Chamber for faster recharge. You don't get it. LP is NOT an advantage in this respect nor does it automatically spell "better". That's just oversimplistic thinking. LP is a direct result of a marker requiring it to overcome some of its design disadvantages so it will slow it's bolt speed down. It doesn't make it better. And in some cases makes it worse. Its not any advantage when all the other things you want a marker to do are thrown into the mix. In the mag we can do ALL the things we want to without the numbers of LP that you call LP. Assuming you want to call LP anything lower than 400?
No one else can do slow bolt speeds, low pressure to ball surface, regulate the tank air, dump full pressure into the Air Chamber for lightning fast recharge AND achieve high rate of fire with a fast bolt speed at the end. Its a marvelous valve. All in one package. Its so compact and does so many things well its going to be impossible to beat that.