Autoresponse frame question

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09-27-2015, 05:35 AM
flampaint

2 Attachment(s)

Autoresponse frame question

So I have a PTP frame here with a standard sear which seems to be "Autoresponse-ready":
Attachment 91817

-> Can anyone confirm if "all I need" now in order to make this into an AR type frame is the AR sear + linkage + spring?
(picture courtesy of bacci PB) :ninja::
Attachment 91818
If so, will the linkage + spring work with any type of AM/MM sear or do these use another type of sear (hole located on different position on sear arm)?

If, by any chance anyone who has one of the above mentioned linkages + spring + sear - pls LMK (I will of course also proceed to post in the WTB section as soon as I have confirmation of the fact that I could make this frame into an AR frame)

Thanks a lot in advance for any help! :clap:
09-27-2015, 05:36 AM
flampaint

just figured out the sear-question myself by looking at the picture of the linkage and sear: the newer type of AM/MM sears should work (at least in terms of the shape) not too sure about the hole location though..
Thanks again for any input anyone might have.
09-27-2015, 08:10 AM
Tunaman

It should be fine. I have the parts you need. Email me. tunaman5@verizon.net
09-27-2015, 08:51 AM
flampaint

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tunaman

It should be fine. I have the parts you need. Email me. tunaman5@verizon.net

Excellent!
Thanks Tuna. I just sent you an email about that this instant :headbang:
09-27-2015, 08:11 PM
Grelvire

If you look at the sear on the autoresponse there is a circular cut in the under side towards the front to clear the sear during actuation, you may have to grind the sear abit if you cant find an auto response sear, if i recall its the diameter of a nickel
09-28-2015, 12:30 AM
Cyco-Dude

looks like you could just use a newer style sear. they don't come down like that in the front, so it may have the clearance needed.
09-28-2015, 01:46 AM
flampaint

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyco-Dude

looks like you could just use a newer style sear. they don't come down like that in the front, so it may have the clearance needed.

yup, that's what I figured, the newer style AM/MM style sears will fit this application. The old type of sears (with the added material on the lower side) would have to have some material cut or dremelled out - good thing I have some new ones lying around here.
09-28-2015, 02:27 AM
flampaint

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grelvire

If you look at the sear on the autoresponse there is a circular cut in the under side towards the front to clear the sear during actuation, you may have to grind the sear abit if you cant find an auto response sear, if i recall its the diameter of a nickel

That is correct - it took me a while, but I ended up figuring it out myself too after looking at the design of the linkage and how it works for a while... ;)
09-28-2015, 10:10 AM
flampaint

Another question has come to my mind looking at and using AR frames (absolutely love 'em for full mechs):
Is there a way to improve the linkage so as to reduce the amount of distance the trigger has to be pulled in order to get the two shots to be fired?
Reducing the required trigger pull force is probably just a matter of using a lighter spring.
But if the linkage could be modded to further improve an AR frame's function, that would be awesome...

I'm pretty sure I am not the first person to think of this and it has been either thought of or even been done before... so, if anyone knows something and can chime on this... thanks a lot in advance! :D
10-01-2015, 05:39 PM
athomas

Quote:

Originally Posted by flampaint

....Is there a way to improve the linkage so as to reduce the amount of distance the trigger has to be pulled in order to get the two shots to be fired?
Reducing the required trigger pull force is probably just a matter of using a lighter spring.

It all comes down to the amount of force required to rotate the sear. It takes specific amount of force to do that. If you want to reduce the amount of force required, you require greater leverage and therefore need to increase the length of the lever. By the same law, if you decrease the distance required, you increase the force required to push the lever. It comes down to simple science. Work = force x distance.

When you add in the operation of an autoresponse trigger system, you not only need to have enough force to rotate the sear, but you also need to store enough energy in the spring to rotate the sear when you release the trigger. Therefore, at a bare minimum, you need at least 2x the trigger pull force for the same distance travelled. To alleviate some of the extra force required, the autoresponse trigger system has made a longer trigger pull.

If you want to reduce the trigger pull distance or force, then you need to reduce the force requirement of the valve to be fired.
10-06-2015, 07:39 AM
flampaint

Quote:

Originally Posted by athomas

It all comes down to the amount of force required to rotate the sear. It takes specific amount of force to do that. If you want to reduce the amount of force required, you require greater leverage and therefore need to increase the length of the lever. By the same law, if you decrease the distance required, you increase the force required to push the lever. It comes down to simple science. Work = force x distance.

When you add in the operation of an autoresponse trigger system, you not only need to have enough force to rotate the sear, but you also need to store enough energy in the spring to rotate the sear when you release the trigger. Therefore, at a bare minimum, you need at least 2x the trigger pull force for the same distance travelled. To alleviate some of the extra force required, the autoresponse trigger system has made a longer trigger pull.

If you want to reduce the trigger pull distance or force, then you need to reduce the force requirement of the valve to be fired.

So using a ULT would help I assume?
10-06-2015, 08:37 AM
maniacmechanic

So what makes this frame " AR " ready ?
10-06-2015, 10:32 AM
flampaint

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by maniacmechanic

So what makes this frame " AR " ready ?

This milling + hole - which allows for the spring of the AR linkage to be attached. Some PTP frames don't have this milling (well, at least two which have gone through my hands in the past months didn't have the milling + hole... :D)
Attachment 91864
10-06-2015, 05:29 PM
athomas

Quote:

Originally Posted by flampaint

So using a ULT would help I assume?

It would. Then you need to use a lighter spring as well. Find one that has a spring constant that will give you the proper force for the distance that the spring is required to be pulled.

Its not as easy as just changing out to the ULT or a generic lighter spring. There needs to be some calculated design, and testing, to properly make it work consistently.
10-08-2015, 12:51 PM
flampaint

How about using an Xvalve (with a standard RT on/off) as opposed to a Classic Valve on an AR frame? Could that cause problems or is the required trigger-pull-force pretty much the same on those two types of valves, thus making them both suitable for an AR frame?
I've noticed differences even between Classic Valves which seemingly worked all fine - some wouldn't nearly work as well as others on the AR frame. I have a Classic valve on mine now which is just ridiculously fast with this frame (although it does get tyring in the forearm after a while of constant fire... :D)
10-08-2015, 01:28 PM
Tunaman

Quote:

Originally Posted by flampaint

How about using an Xvalve (with a standard RT on/off) as opposed to a Classic Valve on an AR frame? Could that cause problems or is the required trigger-pull-force pretty much the same on those two types of valves, thus making them both suitable for an AR frame?
I've noticed differences even between Classic Valves which seemingly worked all fine - some wouldn't nearly work as well as other on the AR frame. I have a Classic valve on mine now which is just ridiculously fast with this frame (although it does get tyring in the after a while of constant fire... :D)

Either valve will work. Dont use the ULT and dont go changing the spring I provide. Full pull and full release on the trigger or it wont work. There is an art to ripping wih these frames.
10-09-2015, 01:04 AM
flampaint

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tunaman

and dont go changing the spring I provide.

no worries, I won't touch the linkage I am getting from you. I have an old one here that I want to tinker with. :D
01-13-2016, 09:45 PM
Tunaman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shibdude

Do you by any chance have all of the parts, aka the sear,linkage, and spring? Im looking to put one of these babies together in my mag as well. and i have the grip frame for it already, just fyi.

Just a few sets left. Replied to your PM.