You mean the same ptp that screwed up all those MICROMAG bodies? Yikes hate to see the fix on there pneumatic setup :rofl:
I would love for somebody to build a hair out of a bob long type frame something with some room for the fingers to fly
Ya umf frame is cool maybe a little slimmer though IMO
The same PTP who invented the HalfBlock Autococker?
The same PTP who released the first 45 frame for Automags and Autocockers?
The same PTP who invented the UniBody Automag?
The same PTP who released the first Autococker-Threaded Automag body?
The same PTP who designed a mechanically walkable frame that could swap between Autocockers AND Automags?
The same PTP who designed the first VM68 body that could be field-stripped without tools and supported a vertical bottle?
The same PTP who teamed up with Tom Kaye and FN Herstal to design the FN-303, the ultimate less-lethal weapon?
The same PTP who designed an integrated detente system during an era when many went without, one that lasts 15+ years without rebuild?
ProTeam Products, Benchmark and Armson were pioneers in the industry since it could be considered an industry. They partnered with Tom Kaye and Bud Orr (the godfathers of paintball) and PK Selective (the daddy of creative anodizing) to create the original Private Label marker, complete with never-before-seen technological upgrades and modifications that would not hit production markers until literally years later. PTP was offering wild color schemes when markers came in "black" or "gray", before major companies even offered the standard "Red, Blue, Black, Silver" lineup. They were also well ahead of the curve with MilSim upgrades for the Tippmann product line, offering military grade stocks/sites/for-ends years before the big MilSim sites started pushing plastic, almost a decade before Tippmann (and then BT) started offering factory packages.
Before you tear them a new one, look at what they've done. PTP has a few dozen "wins" on the books, less than a handful of "draws" (products that didn't take off), and only one real "loss"; the Micromag 2009. They have 6 generations of AMAZING Micromags that to this day sell for the same price as a brand new modern mid-range electro. They make mortars and landmines for the US Military now, and sighting systems for all manner of different firearms manufacturers. Paintball has been the last thing on their minds for about 8 years, and when they came back by the DEMAND of a few long time fans to create a marker that they knew they wouldn't make dime one on, they did, and it was not a success. Be that as it may, they still created some of the greatest paintball products ever made and that should be acknowledged.
To bad this thread got hijacked. I would love to see a fully pneumatic walk-able production marker. For me that means a pneumatic force feed loader as well. No batteries at all.
Seems Tippmann would be the closest one with that technology? Cyclone feed, Crossover? Wasn't there a "Turbo" loader or something, too, that had an air line? There's always a mech-ion kit as well but not sure how much those can be tuned to make walkable.
there is a video of a autococker hair trigger that shows some of the internals and it looks like the way a pneumag is built
it sounds just as fast as this:
haha enjoy tha song at the end!
and here is a G-force frame that is on this guys Dallara hair trigger his name looks pretty familiar:
Dug around and found the thread regarding PTP/DW and the patent stuff. Some of it is interesting. In the end its sad because its just sitting there not getting used. Sucks for us.
Wondering if this is why the Cheater ended up going away?
All I can say is "cooperate" in these situations usually does not mean "want to pay your dues", and I have a feeling DW did not want to pay their dues. You also have to consider that BOTH AGD and PTP were bowing out of the industry around '03-'04, generally for the same reason.
Tippmann paid a large one-time fee to use the Response Trigger kit they sell - this is because it bears incredible similarity to the Boston Paintball Reflex kit that predates it. Kingman pays a percentage for their anti-chop bolt, because it bears resemblance to the Boston Paintball JAM bolt that predates it. When someone invents something and patents it, and you come up with a similar idea later, you need to negotiate and you need to understand that you will be making money with property belonging to someone else. This doesn't make Boston Paintball evil, it just means they're not STUPID and don't want to let someone rob them.
That thread is all full of "big guy, little guy" talk and I can tell you that if you call PTP any day of the week you will get Forrest or Tracy, the husband and wife team who spent years letting people use their (patented) 2-piece barrel design, their (patented) half block autococker design, their (patented) double trigger 45 frame design. When it came to the big stuff their (patented) unibody Automag design, (patented) Emag design, their (patented) bolt-on feedneck design, or any other number of their patents, they chose to enforce and people producing markers and parts chose to pay the fee or pay the percentage that was owed to the original designer.
This is the only thing ANYONE should take away from that thread:
With all that ^^^ said, I still think it sucks that someone holds the patent on something and refuses to bring a product to market. My guess is the fee must be exceedingly high to keep someone from producing it. Guess we'll have to wait another 15 years or so before the patents go away before we can have a nice fully pnuematic marker.
I can say this with certainty; the product made it to the point where it was fully tested and ready to go into full production, but then someone at PTP realized it was 2005 (the year of the Ego) and that Automags and Autocockers were effectively a dead market. That's why PTP sells quite a bit of Tippmann MilSim gear, and people occasionally buy old stock of their old OOP product through the website, but their focus is elsewhere and they are not staffed or geared towards the production of paintball products. They were (in my eyes undisputably) the KINGS of Autocockers and Automags from 1991-???? and clearly one of if not the longest running custom shops, but their flagship marker designs finally died out and the sport moved in a new direction.
I must have missed the part where Nicad said he didnt feel he needed to pay anything. I breezed through the thread because most of it was filled with butthurt and idiocy. From the posts of his I remember, it seemed like he was willing to work with PTP to resolve the issue. Maybe I misread.
Wonder if GOG is paying royalties for the EnMy?
* Edit. Just to be clear, I am not bashing PTP in any way. I love my MM2K9 and the other MicroMags I have had along the way. Simply would like to see a nicely made fully pneumatic marker made.
If you look at some of Nicads posts (and I agree they are burried under stupidity), he says things like "well, so-and-so didn't have to pay royalties when he made the Nova, and this marker was pneumatically triggered too, and...". I don't doubt he wanted to work with ProTeam, but his idea of "working with them" clearly didn't meet Forrests expectations as the holder of the IP. PTP offered to sit down with anybody interested; at least two other companies felt it was a fair deal.
Funny I hear of so many issues with the MM2K9. Only issue I had was the first body I got had an ano flaw. I sent it back and had a replacement in a couple of weeks. Put the thing together and it ripped from the word "go". I still think something happened along the way. Seems like there are perfect ones and some with issues. With all the time it took I would venture a guess that something changed along the way to cause the issues.