..and I don't think the name "resurrection" is appropriate.. Mags never died like cockers did :)
The Autococker IS the Harley Davidson of people. Sure there will be people that just want the Honda "Cheap electro" but there is something to the sound and mechanisms of an Autococker that is fun, and I don't want that to be lost.
Would a new mag need to be "custom"? What makes it custom as compared to production?
Why would it be a bargain for a mag to be $550 but not a new autococker?
I really wish there were an annual "mag vs cockers" event. There was almost one last year, but they fumbled the rules and made it no longer a "mag vs cocker" event.
I think the sizing of the barrel kit is fine -- the only two sizes I ever use are 0.680 and 0.685 anyways. No doubt I would love to have the extra length of those backs in a Freak system.
However, one reason I prefer the Freak is that I can consider the inserts to be disposable. If they get scuffed up or damaged, I just buy new ones. (Brass ones, at that. If we're going to talk about unquantifiable magic, which must always be the case when discussing autocockers, then I'm invoking the spirit of 'brass'.) If I scuff up or otherwise damage a back on one of these barrel kits? *shrug*
That, and I can swap the inserts with other Freak bored barrels, like on my pistols. Or *cough* on my Spyder.
If you're a "pro" player that drinks from the fountain of equipment and doesn't bother with other guns, that's fine, but for mere mortals, I think the "pro" argument is ... well, it's not relevant to me.
As far as a Resurrection Automag -- the price question can't be answered without knowing what the product would be in the first place. If you just took a classic and rebadged it -- no. If you were to make substantial improvements, possibly. Question can't be answered at this time.
For example... I seriously don't think I could put a price on this gun...
For the price of just the E-90 grip frame I could almost buy a new Resurrection cocker
Since I made them I never paid for inserts but even then it annoyed me when one would get dropped and ding up to be unusable, or get squashed out of round and be unusable. They are certainly worse in tolerance and straightness than normal barrel backs since it's simply harder to make them as well with such a thin wall. I have lost count of the amount of inserts I have dropped and damaged the lip to the point I wouldn't use them.
I have some barrels that are 15 years old and work just as well (or better) and don't get damaged as easily. If I had them in a set of complete bore sizes I would take them over almost all other barrels. :)
Would you pay $550 for it?[/QUOTE]
Only if it has an Inception Designs logo on it.
I would pay $550 for it!
i still need to buy one of those frames. :D
you should make me one.
i would pay 500$ for a frame if there are only small numbers made, such as 10. but that is just me. :headbang:
I like them simply because they can be replaced. Even if you're not careless with your equipment, there is simply an extra level of comfort knowing that if you do mess up an insert, it's replaceable.
I kept my J&J ceramic flawless for more than a decade, but that was basically on a sealed marker -- no external dirt could get in. That was on purpose.
With the SA-17 spring feed, that changed. There's no way to keep dirt out. That was about the time I switched to the Freak system, and I've noticed light scoring on those inserts already, despite the fact that I keep my markers in otherwise immaculate condition. Would I like them to last forever? Sure. They're not going to though. Even the steel ones can get scratched up.
If you only use 2 bore sizes (.680 and .685) and put a premium on barrel back/insert surface quality, then a Freak system where you can replace individual inserts just seems to work out better.
Having 3 other sizes for the "pros" that travel the world is great... But 99% of the time I'm shooting Redemption at my home field, and the 3 backs I don't want to use can't replace the 1-2 scratched ones that I do. (The other 1% of the time I'm using the exact same 2 backs at visiting fields anyways.) I'm guessing that this situation applies to most "rec" players.
Nothing technically wrong with the barrels -- again, I have no complaint about the steps of the sizing. I just think the value presented by an entire kit which can't be taken a la carte strongly changes when you go from "pro" to "rec".
If I had my choice, if it had to be 5 backs, I'd take 2x .680, 2x .685, and the 5th one would itself be Freak bored as a backup/contingency.
Just to throw this out there also, I've shot one of these things at TB7... IF I hadnt blown a ton of cash on the event and had to take into consideration going away for vacation the week after, I would have bought it in a heart beat. Shoots awesome. Feels awesome. New style slider caught be by surprise but good luck short stroking it.
my feelings are that I love the classic mech feel of a marker....whether it is a mag or a cocker. If the resurrection is an improvement on the older one, then what more can you ask for. My two cents are this....Thank you Simon for bringing something like this back to the market. Paintball, like any other sport sometimes needs to remember its roots. I applaud the idea of going back to mech markers.
i've seen people pay twice that much for for a new gun from some company that just has you manually pump it instead of automation. hell, the Machine Vapor which is a copy of a Zodiak ZR1, but people would pay $1500 for a Vapor but not $900 for ZR1. go figure?
so the only thing that anyone to do is, you see one and ask to shoot it. only then you will know if you like it. then you will find a way to get one, whether new or used.
hell, 13 years ago, the $550 price would fall into a low to mid range in the price for a new cocker. the stock one would be right around $300.
The Resurrection seems to have all the performance stuff already in it. So $550 does not seem bad at all for a Cocker that will shoot right off the first air-up.
I have no qualms with the price... I'd rather pay $600 for a fullblock.
i know a guy that has a brand new Boston Twister WITH a reflex kit, basically a supercharged unicorn. he has the original receipt where it shows that he spent nearly $2400 for that gun. granted, everything is matching on the anno, but its not hard to climb the price chart when you are changing nearly every part.
remember the Resurrection is a gun that is mass produced. it is purpose built. it has to share the same platform as the sniper, which helps keep the cost down. Kee also owns all of or has access to all of WGP's old stock so the pneumatics and could be NOS. hell, the 09 SFL when it was rereleased was still $700 and that was using old parts with no anno changes.
Snappy trigger and generally smooth (not glass but much better that stock WGP) conservative timing
pneumatics are interchangeable with old AC parts (not that you need to)
LPR is a AKA SMC-III (IMO the best LPR out)
Planet Eclipse detents
ST Bomb like 3way. Very smooth
Ram is serviceable without removing it from the front block
All parts were not death Loctited on (thanks Empire)
Ram and 3way lock screws
Ram Shaft has wrench flats (no more plier marks)
3way shaft is one piece
bolt is a three oring style
SMALL to large bore barrel kit (the large bore will be freak milled)
Timed out of the box, just add tank hopper and fun.
HPR is a removable and replaceable but why would you........
Finish dust is just right and good color match between parts (Black version)
Milling is nice except one part.......see cons
Hogue style bubble grips are good for big hands
Trigger shoe is large and accommodation for gloved hands
He missed the clamping feedneck and Spyder valve.
There you go, have fun.
Alright, not going to read through 2 or 3 pages of people talking about aesthetics. Bought mine Friday, used it at the BT vs Dye here at CPX and it has shot AWESOME. Have two other folks considering it. Used the .080 just as I do on my Sniper. Haven't short stroked at all, along with a couple of the others who have shot it. Haven't shot enough to give an idea on efficiency but better than an 'mag by far. Great ergonomics. Great trigger, I'm a 'cocker noob and was able to shoot great with it.
People try to compare the price of a NEW Resurrection to a USED ULE Mag. Let's not forget the ULE Mags never came with 5 piece barrel kits, on/off ASA's or clamping feednecks. Not to mention, in 'cocker terms, you have the mid block, the delrin sled, the awesome slide trigger thanks to Simon, being able to adjust from both sides. Not sure what more you could want.
@ Nobody - Thanks for the info.
@Goatboy - God forbid someone tries to ask for information on the internet. For your information I already knew everything you posted, but a "hot rodded" cocker can do more less everything you listed besides having the new frame and barrel. Maybe I wanted some insight from owners who might have noticed something different about the design in general. Do everyone a favor and stop being a jerk.