I'm not using a barrel at all. I'm dry firing it w/o one till I can get it to work properly.
I'm not using a barrel at all. I'm dry firing it w/o one till I can get it to work properly.
you may need a new reg piston.
Yea. I was just talking to Rob on the phone and that what he said. Is there a special High Pressure Piston?
Yeah, there is no doubt its not working right. I have seen the videos of what it should look like and if I put a squegee about 1/4" in front of it, the bolt definitely strikes the squegee with more force than it should. I will just have to order 2 new RT regulator pistons.
kutter- What's your velocity set at?
Well Black, when I had my Micro out a few days ago it was set about 285. I think the setup I have in there right now is this: 1.5 carrier, with well broken in o-ring, 2 shims, and longest spring. I noticed that my gun was too reactive with the middle spring but got a lot better with the longer springer, still nice and crisp, but not so prone to runaway. Temperature was in the mid 90's with humidity about the same and I was shooting fresh Marbalizer. I did not bounce test it as I shot all I had that day.
I have not had a chance to chrono my SFL since I got the lvl 10 installed, that will occur this weekend. I keep meaning to buy hand chrono but that Keely Watson poster at the pro shop is sooooo distracting :)
I ordered 2 regulator pistons yesterday and they should be here by friday, at least thats what I asked Marcia to do for me, so when I get them in and replace both then I will have a better idea what is going on.
Just want to make sure I'm doing this right.
Changed the carrier to 1.5 to stop the down the barrel leak.
Leaking out the back, tried the shortest spring in the kit, leaks at 230fps or higher. I believe I need a new reg piston.
Is this correct?
I'm using a All American 14" from a splash kit.
ya, sounds like it, what tpye of barrel are you using?
After several months of flawless operation, I have to report a slight hick-up in lvl 10 operation. While at my local paintball store, allowing several friends and customers to try out my E-mag with the lvl 10 inside, my E-mag developed a massive leak down the barrel. After removing all paint and air from the gun, I proceed to remove the valve to find the bumper was totally shredded ( they did put almost 10 cases of paint through the gun, trying to cause a chop). After changing out the bumper, I re-aired the gun with the same problem. I then went home, being that I am the only E-mag in the area that I know of and probably the only owner of a level 10 in the area, to use my tools and parts. After trading out all the O-rings and switching O-ring carriers, I finally gave up and decided to post my problems on the tech forum. Havoc recommended that I check the piston on the bolt to see if it had moved out any, and lo and behold it had. After pushing it back in, the only way I could do it was to gently but forcefully use the desk to push it in, I re-aired my gun and it worked as usual. I was wondering if we have come up with a fix to this problem, as I have read long time ago of problems with the piston coming out, that and I am too lazy and time pressed to actually look it up because I am going out to the field to play!
Alright i just baught a used RT, i put a lvl 10 in it, but i'm not sure if its working correctly, it won't break paint but 3 out of every 12 or so balls gets burped out and only go about 10yrds and sometimes i get a few balls that just roll out of the barrel when i tip the barrel down to the ground. Does the lvl 10 need to be adjusted or does it sound like i have something wrong with the gun itself?
Intelliframe on its way
The balls rolling out of the barrel appear to be either a problem with the paint to barrel match (they might be very small) or a failure of the ball detent/nubbin. I recomend going with the newer plastic nubbins, as they will last a whole lot longer and they will not slice a ball, as the wire ones are likely to when they break.
As for the balls burping out, I have experienced that once in a while, but not extremely often. It only seems to happen to me when I fan the trigger for excessive periods of time. I do not know the cause, but my guess is that the tradeoff with having the level 10 is a slightly decreased rate of fire, which I am willing to deal with in exchange for not chopping paint
DarkPhoenix- If you're handy with tools and Loctite, take off the foamie, take a drift pin and tap out the bolt pin from the hole exposed when you take off the foamie. This will remove the bolt pin so you can put a dab of RED Loctite on it and press fit it back in. Be sure to fully clean off any dirt from the tip of the pin surface that is press fitted into the bolt with rubbing alochol. Use a q-tip to wipe off any Loctite that comes out from pressing it in. I suggest using a flat faced hammer on the end of the bolt pin with short, but firm taps. The end of the bolt pin that you'll be hitting with the hammer doesn't contact anything so it's not an issue to hit it with a hammer, so long as you tap it in straight and don't slip. Use calipers to measure from the tip of the bolt to the tip of the pin. It should go in to 2.010".
I know the carrier should be *snug* when its pushed in but how snug is snug? I snapped a pencil pushing so hard trying to get a carrier in. It seems like the carrier was machined too wide for it to fit in past the threads in the PT. I can't get the carrier in far enough for the lvl 10 PT tip to catch on the threads, but almost. Should I resort to *tapping* it in with a mallet or something similar?
Black, in my post (which was burried too quickly, Grrr) you told me to measure from the bolt tip to the end of the bolt pin, a distance which is supposed to be 2.01". Well, I did measurements and the bolt is 2 and 11/32 inches, much longer than 2.01". What do I do now? Should I send the LX kit in for a replacement bolt or what? Thanks, you have been very helpful up to now, and I appreciate it.
Edit: Thanks a million Black; everything looks good now, just waiting for it to be completely dry.
Dr. StockClass- Pop it back out and then drop it back in. Use the back of a BIC pen and push it in with that. If you push it in wrong, it will go in at angle and it won't budge. Just make sure it looks like it's going in straight and it will go in.
LittleJP- Are you handy with loctite and a drift pin? If so all you need to do is take off the foamie, insert the drift pin into the hole that is uncovered when you take off the foamie and tap out the pin. Clean off the tip of the pin that press fits into the bolt with alcohol and and then put a dab of red loctite on it. Put it back in the hole and tap it in with a flat faced hammer. You really can't do any damage to the pin with the hammer so be sure to tap it nice and hard so it goes in all the way. Measure it so that it's 2.010" and then use a Q-Tip to wipe off any of the red loctite that came out when it was being press fitted. Let it sit for 24hrs and it should be good to go. Use one of your extra foamies that came with the kit to replace the old one. Be sure to clean off all of the old glue and rubber material before you put on the new one.
I've noticed that with level 10, the reactivness of my trigger is down to practically nil. Any recommendations? I saw a few posts regarding this earlier, but no answers... (I might have missed it, this is a LONG thread. :) )
Perhaps a FAQ regarding level 10 teching might be in order?
it shouldnt affect reactiveness, what are your settings? are you sure you are using the biggest carrier that doesnt leak?
ok my level 10 is awesome but sometimes i have to push on the front of my bolt to get it to fire again
then it will fire a couple shots then i must push again
what do i do ????????????????//
any help would be great
also i have some probs with my crossfire tank and it leaks out the fill nipple
if the bolt doesnt bleed the pressure, drop in another shim.
as for the fill nipple, check the o'ring that's in itmake sure the tank is empty
Just posting my personal experience with the LX installation process.
Using ReTro Valve, black hopper right powerfeed body, agd flatline 68/3000 tank. output pressure at 850~900. Velocity unknown after testing (no chrono) since I want all the leaks and misc. problems solved before putting paint through the marker.
-Used 5 line carrier (3 on front then 2 on rear) 2 shims, longest spring. Problem massive leak down the barrel.
-Used 2.5 carrier, 2 shims, longest spring. Problem massive leak down the barrel again.
-used 2 carrier, 2 shims, longest spring. Problem massive leak down the barrel.
The previous three leaks were due to the carrier being too loose around the bolt.
-used 1.5 carrier, 2 shims, longest spring. Problem gun would shoot then stick. STOPPED LEAKING THOUGH!
-used 1.5 carrier, 2 shims, medium spring. Problem gun wouldn't shoot. Solution turned up velocity to unknown amount (no chrono available oops). new result gun would shoot and bounce back with nothing there at lower velocity setting and as i increased it the gun would resume shooting normally and bounce back if i held my squeege in the chamber (down the barrel, haven't tried down the power feed yet). UPDATE gun shoots fine but developed a small leak after about 50 shots. Proposed solution according to an earlier post on this thread it was said that using the next smaller carrier will stop this leak. I have yet to try it. I will reply once I tried it with my final setup.
What is the easiest way to get the carrriers out of the power tube? mine doesnt want to come out, and I get a small leak down the barrel, so would that be the next size smaller, or larger?
LX setup: 2 shims, 1.0 carrier, medium spring, lapco big shot barrel, ReTro Valve, BIG BALL paintballs.
-Leaks are all gone
-the bolt stuck one time on rapid fire(only within the first 30 shots after i made the above adjustments to LX), but never did it again.
-the Level 10 system is working, I put a dollar bill in it bounced, i put scotch tape on a paintball and put it half way into the chamber fired 2 times, bounced both times (didnt try beyond that since I didn't feel like cleaning up a mess atm). Fired 100 rounds while having inconsistant velocity and on about 4 occasions heard the Level 10 psssht noise in effect.
-the VELOCITY is VERY INCONSISTANT NOW!!! using a radarchron hand held chrono I was getting velocity readings from 249 to 291 and it seemed to jump anywhere within this range every shot. THIS HAS TO BE FIXED!!!!!
Reading through some old posts here I see that solutions range from changing the type of paintballs you are shooting, to replacing/cleaning the REG SEAT.
IF ANYBODY KNOWS ANY SOLID SOLUTION TO THIS INCONSISTANT VELOCITY ISSUE PLEASE POST AND PLEASE PM ME.
NOTE: My friend with a EMAG w/LX installed (snakestangs old emag) gets VERY CONSISTANT VELOCITY when we used the same radarchron hand held chronograph his readings ranged from 183-188. So its not the chronograph..
Since I dont have a dental pick, I improvised and used a paperclip and bent one end with a pair of pliers (note: bent on the extreme end of the paperclip so you can have a tiny hook, having too large of a hook will make you unable to get into the carrier hole, ok that didnt sound good but thats how it works).
If your leaking down the barrel I would suggest changing your carrier to the next smaller size.
Use your field strip screw, set it into the powertube and into the carrier, turn it to the right to kind of "thread" it into the carrier and simply pull. Works like a charm if you don't have dental picks or some other kind of picks. Wal-Mart sells a really nice set of Stanley picks for around four dollars.
paperclip, bent with plier... works like a charm. dont use the cheapo flimsy paperclip u need the average size ones.. not the heavy duty kind either.
I probably have missed it looking through the 7 pages, so I do apologize if this has already been asked.
I have slapped in my LX into my RT Pro. I am using 2 shims and the 1.5 carrier.
Anyway, I am noticing two things.
1. When I fire, I notice that the bolt seems to return too far back. When I let go of my trigger after firing, the bolt seems to move forward just a pinch and when doing so gives a little hiss. Should I remove a shim?
2. This could be related, but right now I am sitting around the 295-310 FPS range. Should I continue to chrony the gun, and fire as much as possible to break in the o-ring and perhaps this will allow me to drop my velocity a bit? Right now, if I drop it down any farther the gun will not do anything.
The bolt is suppose to move a little bit forward when you release the trigger. If it constantly leaks or lets out a little hiss and then stops, then you have it set right at the point that the o-ring is barely sealing the vent hole in the bolt piston. Remove a shim and it should be good.
Are you using the longest spring? If so, then put in the middle one so that it will start operating at a lower velocity and be more reliable up around 290fps. It needs to get a bunch of cycles to break in the o-ring. Make sure it's oiled too.
Right now I am using the middle spring (cut spring). Just to see, I will remove one shim and see how that works.
If I put in the longer spring, would that make my velocity problem worse?
Also, temperature it is quite cool out right now. Just above freezing, around 5 degrees C. So, somewhere in the 40's in F. Thanks
[Edit: I just noticed that I never removed the little plastic bumper on my assembly. Am I supposed to keep it on, or remove it and store it with my old bolt? Just curious...]
[Update: I put in the shortest spring and am able to drop below 300. Right now I am running around 270-290 FPS. There are some spikes in the range, and so I will have to fine tune my velocity setting when I can get more paint.
Now, I can put my squeegie up near the bolt, and the bolt will tap it, and then reset. But, I have a feeling that it is still hitting a bit too hard. I put a ball halfway into the port, and it chopped the ball. Now, I would imagine that putting in a longer spring would fix the chopping problem. However, then I do not think I will be able to chrony below 300 again.
When I dropped down to 1 shim, I had leaks and it was inconsistent all over the place. When adding another shim my velocity is much more consistent. However, I could not get it below 300 using the middle spring. When I put in the shortest spring, I could go below 300.
Any ideas? Thanks]
take it off
Once I get the SCUBA filled again today and get more paint I will remove the rubber bushing, and put the middle spring back on and try again.
LX setup: 2 shims, 1.0 carrier, shortest spring, lapco big shot barrel, ReTro Valve, MARBALLIZER paintballs.
air system: AGD Flatline 68/3000, currently adjusted to 850~900 psi output.
-Haven't done a rapid fire test yet to check for bolt stick.
-Consistant velocity, 6 shots, individually loaded results:
Odd how the 268 got there. I tested another 6 shots individually loaded and got results ranging from 283-290. Close enough for me! Previous chronograph results ranged from 249-291.
-Scotch taped a MARBALLIZER paintball and lowered it half way into the chamber and fired (once). Result was the expected bounce back of the bolt.
-Put finger inside chamber and fired, result again was the expected bounce back. I'm assuming Level 10 functions are all there.
In my previous post I mentioned that I was experiencing inconsistant velocity after installing Level 10. I read a more recent post regarding this issue and somebody proposed that changing over to the shortest spring alleviates this.
In my previous post I was testing using the medium spring and since then I have changed the spring to the shortest spring size and couldn't be happier with the results.
-ReTro valve without Level 10 - Shooting consistantly, 6fps variance at most (example 283-289).
-Installed Level 10, 2 shims, 1.5 carrier, medium spring - Everything was ok until I fired about 50 times a minor leak developed down the barrel. Due to the leak I didn't check velocity.
-Adjusted Level 10, 2 shims, 1.0 carrier, medium spring - The smaller carrier stopped the leak. Chronographed the gun and had very inconsistant results 249-291 fps.
-Adjusted Level 10, 2 shims, 1.0 carrier, shortest spring -
Chronographed the gun and had very CONSISTANT velocity results in the 283-289 range.
Judging from my history I started with what I presumed to be a clean ReTro valve since it was shooting consistantly before the Level 10 installation. I did have a lingering thought that perhaps my valve became dirty or otherwise mucked up in the proccess of playing before I installed Level 10, or perhaps in the installation proccess itself (I find this hard but you can never be too sure).
I hope this information can be of assistance to anybody else, I thank the AO forum members for all their valuable insight to the various dillemas associated with the Level 10 installation.
I will field test this in speedball this weekend will post performance results.
Congrats Hikaru! I look to have mine running as well as you. It is also good to hear of something using the shortest spring, and getting it to work so well. I was afraid it would still be too hard on the paint.
Duke- You're talking about the clear/yellowish bumper that goes on the valve and the bolt comes back and hits that, right? If so DO NOT remove it. That must be there, otherwise you'll end up breaking your bolt or powertube.
Ok, here is my problem...
Got and installed the level 10 in my SFL E-Mag. Thw 2 carrier leaked a little, so I went down to the 1.5. Installed it with 2 shims, everything worked fine. I thought that the carrier/bolt was a little tight, but the next one up leaked, so I guess that is what I have to do.
Everything worked great. While playing around with it, (using the Cut spring) it stopped on everthing, fingers, paintballs, just like the level 10 is supposed to.
When I went to use it in a game however, it all changed. It fired fine for about 10 shots... then I got the level 10 PFFFT noise, and the next shot broke. I am assuming that it pushed a ball in the barrel but didn't fire it, the next one fired and broke both of them. At the time however, I assumed it was a fluke, cleaned everything out and went to start the first game. fired another 20ish shots, same thing happened... I didn't bring a squeegee on the feild because I had so much faith in the level 10... long story short: I continued breaking balls like mad the entire day.
About half way through, I completey took my gun apart, and added another shim. With that, the problem went away mostly... I broke like one in 200 balls, instead of one in 20 like I was. There was alot of paint goo all around the breech, so I am assuming that that could have caused the break.
I am out of paint and air for a while, but does my current setup sound good? I mean, do you think that fixed the problem?
This is just my opinion.
That is totally unacceptable for an emag with Level 10. I'm sure you know this :). Lets try to fix the problem shall we?Quote:
I broke like one in 200 balls, instead of one in 20 like I was.
-What is your output pressure set to?
-What velocity range are you firing in, example: 283-289 fps.
-Was your gun firing consistantly (velocity wise) prior to the Level 10 installation.
-Is the cut side of the cut spring facing towards the valve?
Heh... I'm not sure if you'll get the answers you want...
Output pressure was 850 psi on my preset Crossfire tank.
Velocity looked fine, I played woodsball on my friends land, so no chrono. If I remember right I turned it all the way up, then unscrewed it two entire turns. I didn't have enough time or air to see if unscrewing it more would help...
I bought the gun used, the previous owner didn't give me the level 7 bolt, and he uninstalled the level 10 kit... figured it would be the best for me to install it myself. He says it worked perfect for him... He used the '2' carrier, which is the one that leaked a little bit when I had it.
Cut spring has the cut-end facing the bolt, not the barrel.
I just got to thinking, wouldn't putting in a shorter spring help with the thing? I mean, that way it would have less resistance and it could move faster before venting. Just my idea...
I probably won't be able to try any more things until this sunday at the earliest, I'm kinda of poor and won't be able to afford the paint. DOH!
O.K., I am keeping the rubber bumper on there (never did take it off).
So, I am using the shortest spring, 1.5 carrier, and 2 shims.
Now, as stated before - I can't seem to get the gun to chrony below 300 with the middle spring. (I put about 400 shots through it).
Also, with the shortest spring I still chopped some paint. Now, assuming that the fault is not with the paint (I will pickup some new stuff Wednesday), what are some suggestions for getting my LX up and running sweetly?
Should I try to get it to work with the short spring, or the medium spring, or something else?
ok well my problem isn't that bad,but its annoying, if I do not shoot my gun btw games then right off the break, I pull the trigger around 3 times and nothing happens and then after that third pull, everything is fine, I have the med. spring, 2 shims and 1.5 carrier, what can I do to get it working all the time
Sorry if this has already been posted,
I have been trying about all carriers in my mag but what what happens is that I gas it up it will leak big time then I can hold the trigger down and it will mostly stop and the bolt can be clicked back agin then if I let go of the trigger it does it again. I have no shims in for the fact that I am testing the right carrier.
I have a mini-mag with a 10" CP .685 barrel that was working fine until I upgraded to the level 10. Now the bolt is sticking inside the small bore barrel. I have 4 other medium barrels and this is the only one that this happens with. I've emailed CP and they haven't returned my email yet. I really love this barrel! What should I do???? Any help would be appreciated.