I don't think I would notice if all the "pros" just up and vanished.
Factory teams however, I do tend to like. They become a personification of the company and demonstrate it's products.
Otherwise I'm only interested in hearing about local teams.
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I don't think I would notice if all the "pros" just up and vanished.
Factory teams however, I do tend to like. They become a personification of the company and demonstrate it's products.
Otherwise I'm only interested in hearing about local teams.
Quote:
Originally posted by mag happy:
(except for the fact that if they had angels they'd be jaming the damn bolts back into place all the time.)
After owning 12 angels over a period of 4 years, I can honestly say that I've had to push my bolt back about 10 times, give or take. That's not too bad, considering how much I played in that time period.
Pros:
I've met em, played against em, played with em.
Some are great guys, some are arrogant pricks.
I think the sport wouldn't be the same without them; it's the high end tourny scene that drives the market for the new toys.
We'd still be wearing softball catcher pads as knee/shin pads without the tourny scene. Nitrogen wouldn't be as popular and cheap without it, and fields wouldn't cater to the people that did buy tanks as much as they do.
Goggles: We wouldn't have around 10 different goggles to choose from, we'd have maybe two or three.
Paint? Without the tourny scene being so big and drawing in the kids and the dollars, the paint would still be 90-120 a case for 2500.
Now? You can get a case of 2000 for less than 40 bucks, retail.
It's true, I have issues with the "pros" that toss their equipment on the ground. I consider them and the cheaters to be the real downside to the top end of the sport.
But not miss them if they were gone? I think you'd miss the new toys that come out for the tourny players.
Maybe some of you would be glad to go back to 95 when everyone shot a mag or a cocker, and they worked when you babied them.
You still use C02, so what do you care, right? Let them buy expansion chambers and have massive dropoff after 5 shots in the winter.
What do we need a tourny level to the game for, after all?
I liken it to an arms race; and we are all the winners.
MHO
DR
http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif
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Owned a PF mag in 96.
=)
its the EXACT opposite...you wouldnt know how many people buy gear because pros use them....i guarantee if Avalanche(the team most kids know about...) all started using warp feeds, you would see a HUGE increase in warp feed sales...Quote:
Originally posted by mag happy:
the main reason i dont talk about it is because what is there to talk about other than guess what team won this and what team won that. to me it does'nt matter. but theres i kid on my team who wont shoot a barrel shorter than 14in because almost all pro players use them. its mainly because most paintballers dont care what equipment the pros use. jacksonville could be using angel or emags or shockers and they would still play just the same. (except for the fact that if they had angels they'd be jaming the damn bolts back into place all the time.)
also i could say that the gun does matter. No matter how sweet my shocker was, i couldnt play nearly as effictevly as when i am using my angel or now maybe my emag. THe shocker was just to bulky and the front grip was too close to the grip frame for me to take accurate fast pop shots. This is only me, every gun feels better or worse in other peoples hands.
I've played with Bob Longs Ironmen at my local Sherwood Forest. They seemed pretty honest, I didnt see any wipe...BTW, you should've ran up and swiped up that angelQuote:
Originally posted by MicroB:
I have been playing paintball for six months at a local field and they just put in a hyperball field (in may) word got around San Diego. Now pretty much every weekend team Ironman and Dynasty, and sometimes members of the family show up and play. My first experience with a pro team;
1. Ironman; rude, obnoxious cry babes that wipe everything. I was very disappointed. They cuss ALOT. There also rude off the field.
2. Dynasty; pretty much the same as Ironman. they mirror each other well.
3. The Family; the whole team hasn't shown but the players didn't wipe that I watched not once, and they didn't swear as much or at all.
While watching them play (Ironman and Dynasty)cussing and scream'en at each other one of Ironmans front players went to bunker a front of Dynasty's and his gun malfunctioned (I think his revvy batteries died and blocked the ball from feeding), so the player throws his 2001 LCD Angel and angel air on the ground so hard he bent the barrel.
The most frustrating part is there are typically 60-80 newbies standing around watching these players wanting to play like them and the teams are acting like this, what kind of role model is that. If they were to televise these teams, I think it would give the sport a bad rep.
These are good players(other than the wiping) and I do learn from watching them, but they need to clean up their act. Given these circumstances, I don't think to highly of Pro-teams. Given this is my only experience with them.
BTW, there were 6-8 newbies fighting over the bent angel barrel.
[This message has been edited by MicroB (edited 07-09-2001).]
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She was a fast machine
She kept her motor clean
She was the best damn woman I had ever seen
She had the sightless eyes
Telling me no lies
Knockin' me out with those American thighs
Taking more than her share
Had me fighting for air
She told me to come but I was already there
'Cause the walls start shaking
The earth was quaking
My mind was aching
And we were making it and you -
Shook me all night long
You shook me alll night long
-AC/DC
Quote:
Originally posted by Jax-Warriors:
I am a Pro Player and my team has been supported by AGD for over 10 Years now. We started out like most of you playing on the weekends for fun. We played in tourneys as Am players for many years. We decided we wanted to try and compete with the top teams in the World at the pro level. I would like to thank AGD for all of there support and thank everyone in the forum for supporting AGD.
Thanks
PGP: are you going to post here offen? i see that that was ur first post here http://www.automags.org/ubb/wink.gif
Me personally follow pro, but I can compete in the Amateur B division, so I should follow it. But I can see that most of you don't and play local tournament (which is nothing wrong with that) but why should you follow pro, because chances are that you will never play against them.
y does the bolt stick in the Angels?Quote:
Originally posted by DarkRipper:
After owning 12 angels over a period of 4 years, I can honestly say that I've had to push my bolt back about 10 times, give or take.
On Angel LED's it's really easy to jam the bolt when you chop, a bit of shell get's between the bolt and breech. LCD's have a longer bolt that's harder to jam, just about the only real improvement to the LCD over a late model LED.
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Mykroft Holmes IV
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My Mag:
CF11023
Classic Feed
16" CP .689
14" JnJ Stainless
Ring trigger
WGP Reg.
PMI 48/3K Preset HPA
Accuracy By Volume is not the answer
After reading the messages so far, it seems to me that the pro ball is ignored in AO because of the lack of knowledge of it.
http://www.p8ntballer.com is a great site directed mostly to tournament players and is affiliated with the Paintball Games International magazine. It has how-to-play articles, interviews, gear reviews and very recently updated forums which have many pro players participating. I recommend you to pay a visit to p8ntballer, there is a lot of information!
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-- Apache.
I would like to follow the pros on tv or on the net, or even in a weekly highlights paper that you could subscribe to(HINT HINT COUGH COUGH.. somone should pick up on that one), as of now: the word pro means my local field owner.. http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif
me.. i'l read the highlights if they are in what ever mag i am reading... maybe even think what a rush it would be to play a format like that on a regular basis.... then to read in the same mag how the teams almost allways try and bully the ref to make a call they want or to change it so it doesn't hurt them... hearing how much some players wipe and get away with it...(this to me would lead to massive overshooting esp. if the ref(s) were not there right away to make a call)
now granted this may only be a small group of players at this level that do this... but the trickle down effect is there.....
now for the players at that level that are as honest as they come.... we need alot more of them and the morals/ethics/responsibilty whatever you call it to this game
with all this i dont follow the pro scene and probly wont.. for the most part because it has no direct bearing on how/where/with what i play with...
myself i feel that all these "pro" events should not be reffed by teams, but should be reffed by indipents(sp??) that have nothing to do with the sport other then to ref...
of course there are other things i would like to see changed... but thats another story....
[This message has been edited by virus (edited 07-09-2001).]
I used to play tournament paintball, but got so fed up with all of the cheating and "win-at-all-cost" attitudes of players that I almost stoped playing paintball altogethor.
I only play rec ball now, and love it. I have no interest in tournament paintball. If the sport ever gets "cleaned up" I may get back in or at least watch some of it (if it were televised).
I still play a mean (though honest & obsenitiy free) rec ball game (E-Mag / Warp Feed / etc.).
I think paintball is the only sport where the manufactors are more popular than the players....
I "would" get into talking about pro-paintball and such IF there was an easy way for me to keep up on it. Such as t.v.; for paintball we only have warpig.com and thats just about it....
The angel was in the middle of the field and the game had just started http://www.automags.org/ubb/frown.gifor i would have grabbed it!
I don't understand how some of you who have never played with some of these pros, who dont know them personally, can criticize them based on heresy. The truth is many of the top contending teams do get full rides, and some pros in the nipple do get paid. But when you have a full shabang like that, you owe it to your sponsors to produce some results or else your arse is getting the boot. Some of the lower calibur pro and AM A's have to pay their way in and when you're forking out that much money, emotions can run high.
You guys complain about the way they act, how much they cuss and their behavior based on what you've seen them do. Don't judge all of the pros just because you've seen a bad apple or two. Have you ever seen what a football player does when he gets called for holding, encroachment, or pass interference?
I don't personally KNOW any pros but I do constantly play with em and against them. FYI not all of SC Ironmen is located in SC. At least not Micah, Ollie, and Rich. And not all of Dynasty is located in SC as well, at least not Alex, Angel, Johnny, Marcus and maybe a few others. People play this sport for different reasons, and for some of us those reasons have evolved into something different than when we first started.
For me, it's all about making it to the top and winning against the best teams. Right now, I'm on that road and I intend to make it there. It's probably the same reason or motivation that current pros had when they were at my stage. I don't play so I can meet Jimbo Joe Schmoe at the local field. I could care less about him. In fact if he gets in my way, I'm gonna do him like I would anyone else. There is no such thing as surrendering in my book (with the exception of girls and little and I do mean little kids...). Sometimes when you're competing at a level where most of the population can't even begin to ponder, behaviors are altered because of the constant pressure thats on you. I'm thinking most of you have never played against a nippler, much less a pro.
When you do, you remember this message and you'll understand what they have to go up against. People like themselves, and sometimes people who are better than them.
[This message has been edited by Ninja B0Y (edited 07-09-2001).]
Seems like this has turned into a Pro player bash. Its the same OLD attitude that's tagged onto any tourney team. Got to hand it to Jax-Warriors for even taking the time to register to make that post.
Many of us have had bad experiences with top amateur and pro teams, hence the bashing. I've met some great guys who play top-seed amateur (few pro players up here) and some of them are great people, some aren't, and the bad seem to outway the good. Then again, bad and/or controversial news gets better press, so I suspect the majority of Pro/semi-pro players are good people. No matter how much is riding on your performance, pulling a McEnroe (for you tennis fans) is bad sport, bad for your image and bad for paintballs. Guy's like the Jax Warriors, and the Beach Boyz up here prove that you don't have to be a dick to be a pro, and more pro players have to realize that, or watch the league tours die.
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Mykroft Holmes IV
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My Mag:
CF11023
Classic Feed
16" CP .689
14" JnJ Stainless
Ring trigger
WGP Reg.
PMI 48/3K Preset HPA
Accuracy By Volume is not the answer
To be totaly honest with you AGD, Pro teams realy mean nothing to me personaly. I have been playing tourney ball for about 4 years now, and have never followed who is who, and what team dose what.
I feel that a player is a player. Getting beat by a pro just means that I was just beat by some one beter or a better team. I have played a few big name amature teams of the years, the most notable was the Jackson warrior 2 years ago at skyball. We also played serveral other at that tourney, and we had fun playing them and learning from them. Yes, I know now we don't want to freight train hte flag off the break, but, heck they where the raining skyball champs, we had to try something.
But back to the pro's, are jsut players too. Some beter then other, but all still players.
Any ways, this is the most I have writen on Ao since becomeing a member, I will stop now.
Bartman
Team I have No idea
www.ihni.org
i might follow the pros better if they werent so "perfect". Maybe if they played with gear thats not top of the line all of the time. maybe use a spyder right outof the box. that would be interesting. it thin it would be awesome to see bob long or that cheeze head tod martinez(whom i lost all interest in in that interview) bunker some one with a spyder compact. that would shoqw thier real amound of skill. that would prove to me that they really are pros and not electro toting spwery and prey players.then they would rank with the altimers like wany gretzkey and michale jordan
Why we never talk about pro teams or pro tournaments...
1) Because you never hear about pro teams(You will never find pro player from Ironman or Jacksonville warriors on AO forum or on any other net forum)
2)Paintball magazines never have any articals about pro tournaments
3)They never show Pro paintball tournaments on tv because they cheat a lot they cuss a lot!!! (exemple:match between two pro team and the only thing you hear is gun shots and beap sound thats blocks cussing)
4)It's hard to follow Pro Tournaments because they are only 5 or 6 big tournaments for the holl season and they are only in the really big citys like Los Angeles or New York or somwhere else.... you got the point(why not have more tournaments in more citys)
5) MANY PEOPLE HERE DON'T CARE OR DON'T FOLLOW PRO WORLD BECUASE OF ALL THE FACTORS THAT I LISTED
I agree with DR.
Without demanding top players, the technology of the sport would suffer.
I don't take my direction from what Pro players use. They are largely driven but the need for money. Not as individuals but the team. It costs big bucks to fund a pro team.
I look more to AM teams for clues of what technology works best.
I play for a Novice team. We don't play NPPL yet but we do frequently play NPPL AM teams in open tourneys. There are a few that don't need R or X ratings but most seem less than concerned about sportsmanship.
Not quite TV ready. http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif
Scorch
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I'm an artist. Please don't wipe my work until you show it to the ref. ;)
Team StL Graffiti
*MacDev Enhanced Claret C&C Angel LCD*
2K Lunar Grey EvolutionX AutoCocker
ScorchTech 18v X-rev
AGD WarpFeed
Scorch's RT (sold)
_ _ _ _ _ _ ___________________ _ _ _ _ _ _
Sponsors:
MacDev - Australia * Gateway Paintball
Im a Tourny and Rec player, but the "PRO'S" are problay just too good for this forum...Or we are just too good from them... http://www.automags.org/ubb/cool.gif
The reason paintball isn't ontv is because there aren't enough people to advertise during events,
i play pan am, and i follow it closely have to check who has this many points or who made the finals ect. one game WGP factory team was playing the SF hornets and the right tape for WGP gun went down ( i love mags) he left the game cussing and shouting and he was able to throw his autococker preety far ( into the mud)
this was all in young guns( 15 and under)
this kid is already too bad for paintball.
the SF hornets young gun team was really nice(unlike the older hornets)
i talked to them for three hours. and still do when i go to there feild they let us practice with them and stuff.
this is what turneyball is about and intense paintball.
i do follow pro when i have a chance.
Go THE FAMILY, aftershock
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in the biggining god created two gun and he said thuo automag shall be for the just and fair and the autococker for the evil and cheaters.
The closest I've come to "Pros" were AM A NPPL Tournament players. They only discussed 3 things, 1) Themselves. 2)Their Angel. 3) Why your gun sucks. I guess you could say I don't have much interest in "Pro" paintball players. I think I would follow the tournament scene more closely if some organization would form to encompass the sport. How many Leagues, Organizations, and Federations exist? Too many.
From what I have read about tournament purses it would seem difficult for anyone to truly make a living purely from tournament winnings. Rightly or wrongly I think of "pro" paintball players as avid hobbyists who use equipment from any company that will sponsor them (within reason). Nothing wrong with that, same thing with Nike and basketball players although for much higher $$. I don't want to spray 2 cases of paint per day and sink thousands of dollars into paintball equipment. I'm a rec player who wants well made, trouble free gear rather than the latest gadgets in the hottest new color. I play mainly woods rec ball and scenario games so hyperball competition results hold little interest for me. I bought my Mag after reading posts that stated AGD markers could be run over by a semi and tossed in the trunk for 3 months and still shoot like new. The excellent customer service offered by AGD was also a major selling point and AGD has truly lived up to and even surpassed this reputation! Keep up the good work!
Quote:
Originally posted by AGD:
All,
The subject of pro teams or pro paintball never seems to come up in this forum. We were wondering why? All comments welcome.
Thanks,
AGD
PGP - Nice to see you around man http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif
Welp here goes my $0.02 worth of info on this.
Way way back in the day when I played my first NPPL event at the 93 World Cup in Ny, I was looking around and I found Bob Long and the Ironmen. I actually want to ask him some questions about my MiniCocker which was an evil evil gun that didn't like me very much. When I found Bob I talked to him as he got readdy for a game and he was very pleasant and nice as were Dirk, Shane, Marty B and several other guys. Then I met up with Bob Rose ( Rosie ) from GZ now ( back then Master Blasters ) and we talked and as he reffed and I watched games I was impressed at how some people ( like Rosie, and the players from Bad Co UK ) took the reffing as a responcabily to be done right. They cleaned out bunkers between games, they refed very fair and were on top of everything on the field. Some of these people were from teams like Bad Company UK, Master Blasters etc. These guys showed me what it was to be a "Pro"
We got help from Ed Head ( Jax Warriors ) when we need more paint for the Semis and Finals ( they Went Pro at this event as I recall because they were the first to use Compressed Air, I recall a skid of Scuba Tanks they filled from ), we got help from Smart Parts ( Billy and Adam ) over all it was a great event for us. We ended up winning the Amature event, after a first day where we were happy that we were not in 28th place of 28 teams http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif Playing 3 pro teams your first day in your first "national" level event is one hell of a wake up call. Next day we drew Aftershock and had them 6 v 4 and then they turned on the Mojo and spanked us not loosing another player. We made it in by 5 points after waxing our 2 other Am teams on Day 2.
But over the years I have seen how the game has changed. Where large distributors/Manufactures wield more power than would be reasonable and use that influance to change the course of games/events, get teams to lay down and in general manipulate thing to suit them.
I have seen a player Wipe a goggle hit in front of spectators, and then right after that get cut from his team. I have seen players play on to the point that they told the guy they cheat "Sorry dude but I HAD to get you out of there". Then I have see guys get clipped on the loader and call them selves out instead of whipping it, burrying it in the bunker or other act.
As with life you have your selection of a-holes and nice guys, so don't judge them all or make blakent statements about how they all cheat and wipe.
As with walk ons you dont know everything thats going on, on the field, just because you think you saw a guy get shot doesnt mean he did, or that he wiped the hit. Thats the biggest thing I see mistaken when Rec ballers watch Top level teams play.
-Robert
heres my prob with pro.
1. too many mullets.
2. yes im kidding, i know its just the generation http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif
ive only met one pro player...thatd be stormin' norman, and hes a wicked guy. as for the rest?? i only know what ive seen and plenty of it is bad. but lets face it, theres not a HUGE to be pro. no money, cars ,women etc...as with other sports. just the game. so yeah...maybe they can act a little childish...yeah some cheat and it disgusts me...but look around. ive never heard a bad word about the JAX, and then there Russian Legion, these guys are deadly serious...more and more teams are like this now as larger better sponsors get into it, bigger prizes, more attention etc... its going the way we want it to be, but give it a couple years yet. and if you think other pro sports are immune??? *cough*charlesbarkley,edbelfour(my fav goalie btw),claudelemieux*cough* etc...
like i said...give it a bit and we'll see. they wont be pulling crap when its on national television. as for the good ones...ie.JAX,Legion,Family(man i hate that wholesome name tho) you command true respect from us, your fans.
Over the years, I've had the opportunity to meet with a whole lot of tournament players. Most Amateur players I've spoken with were nice enough, but talk about people that were full of themselves, (see what I did, look how good we are, or were getting screwed, that's why we are not winning.) As far as pros, they include guys from AAs, both Ironmen, Shock, Lockout, and Bad Co. Sometimes they were quick and didnt spend a lot of time, but that only happened at large tourneys and I have to admit, they looked busy when I started bugging them. When I was on a pretty new team a long while back, we played with/against the AAs often, they were absolutly awesome, they showed us different ways to play individually and as a team. (all by the way are completely on the up and up)years later at the Pitt NPPL we were playing in the 5 man and Robbos hotel room was directly across from ours and he spent about 4 hours over the course of the weekend giving us one of his famous training days in our room. Then later I tried out for Bad Co 2.(BTW they asked me to stay, but it was their last practice before they broke up)They were kind of kool in the morning, but once they realized that I could hang with them they treated me better than any amateur team ever has, great bunch of guys. It seems like they all are like that for the most part, once they realize that your not going to ask them what that long plastic thing hanging from their neck is they warm up quite a bit. I must say that all the advice and thoughts they have shared have influenced me a lot, they opened my eyes to new ways of playing and then of course when I tried it and it worked, Sometimes I had to adjust my gear to fit a newer style of play. The real problem is with higher level am teams that think they are pros. I hate to point fingers, but I'm going to, remember the Oh-Nos( they won the first skyball-am) Some, NOT ALL, of them were real arrogant pricks. That seems to be the level of players that are problems. There are not a million actual pros floating around and I believe that a lot of newer players are confusing the "other" guys for pros. Well thats my 2 cents or 3 cents,looking back at the size of this http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif
Tremis
Certified Tech.
AGD
WGP
WDP
Exactly...another great example? Oliver Lang. This guy is so down to earth that he doesn't act cocky nor does he brag everytime I play with him. Despite the fact that he can decimate 5-6 of us with any other two people, be it low level tourney players or his boys, he still offers his gratitude for the game and sometimes he'll give us some advice if we need it.
No Problem, Not all pro players are Bad not all Rec players are saintQuote:
Originally posted by luke:
Seems like this has turned into a Pro player bash. Its the same OLD attitude that's tagged onto any tourney team. Got to hand it to Jax-Warriors for even taking the time to register to make that post.
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PGP
Jax-Warriors
Yes that was my first post here.Quote:
Originally posted by FeelTheRT:
PGP: are you going to post here offen? i see that that was ur first post here http://www.automags.org/ubb/wink.gif
I do work in paintball (Diablo Direct) and I travel alot but i am going to make an effort to post more often.
Thanks
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PGP
Jax-Warriors
You do know that "decimate" means to eliminate 1 out of 10, don't you?
http://www.automags.org/ubb/wink.gif
DR