Page 10 of 24 FirstFirst ... 6789101112131420 ... LastLast
Results 271 to 300 of 692

Thread: Smart Parts Patent Will Destroy Paintball! - Read!

  1. #271
    Animal Mother Guest
    Originally posted by Surreal
    it was a broad statement to get people to shut the hell up. you are using linux, i see you want a cookie. that's why i said 99% and not 100%, because i knew there would be someone to come in and say what you just said lol.'
    Actually quite a few people here use macs and other platforms. Show me the sever logs showing that it's 99%.

    I see you own a SmartParts product.. I guess that means you have to defend it.

    ::snickers::

  2. i'm not defending SP. i disagree with what they're doing, but who am i to tell them how to run their company?

    ****, if there's really something i want done, i want kingman to start suing all these goddamn spyder clone companies .. i'm tired of seeing a new spyder every week lol.

    btw, i'm selling my impulse, want to buy it?
    Tom_Kaye: well it would have been nippinout
    Tom_Kaye: but like an idiot he said
    Tom_Kaye: I love tubgirl
    Tom_Kaye: we cant seem to let go of that chick

  3. by the way, yes, i own a SP product. i also own products from:

    AGD
    JT
    WDP
    CCM
    ND
    BE
    VL
    ACI
    Crossfire
    PMI
    ect.


    the thing that really is just annoying to see, most of the people who post in these threads are 14 year old kids who don't know jack crap about anything and they are just bobbing their head like a mime and repeating what these 'powerful' people are saying. most of them are just followers, get some personality and make your own decisions.


    what about NPS? you guys don't seem to care what NPS is doing to all these companies..? it's all a big scheme, that's how business works fellas.

  4. #274
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    England...not new, just t
    Posts
    2,436
    Varying links etc have been posted up with reference to "past" attempts at "bad trading" but the links I haven't seen again (that I mentioned in my first post) are the other patents that Smart Parts holds with the description on a Paint "gun" "projectile" whatever it is called...these patents albeit on the back burner while all the "electro" patents are pursued will be the next step as they cover mechanical markers...so does someone want to post them up again...I have lost the links to them or I would post them myself If any of you think that this will just go away, think again it "may" just be settled in some kind of way we don't get to hear about directly...a little like the BE v Odyessy fiasco but IF this electro case goes the way of Smart Parts then there will be no stopping them in pursuing the other patents they hold. I do have to say that when the links to "those" patents when they were last on the web I read them and although very heavy going...I'm sure that a lot of other people not connected to the paintball industry would have something to say about the "rights" etc.

  5. #275
    Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
    Guys, this patent has nothing to do with people, just manufacturers. People can do whatever they want. Anyone selling a marker commercially that violated Smart Parts' patent would be subject to criminal and/or civil prosecution.
    Just to reitterate this comment and add a little input. Since someone had said for AGD to patent the air system so SP couldn't use it. Well technically it'd just kill their maxflo. It won't make it where they can only run their markers on co2 due to the fact that the consumer decides what to use on their marker, not SP. As Jim said, it has nothing to do with people, just manufacturers. The only way other than the market prices of markers, that it would effect is if by some act of god, they caused all mechanical markers to no longer be made and tournament series and fields adopted only SP electro clauses. But that leaves mechanical markers. If it went that far which it wont unless they get some miricle, the only effect will be as Doc was saying with the pricing, causing other markers to go up higher and higher, while SP has lower costs. IF that occured and at that time a SP boycott didn't occur, then more than likely the major players would fade out leaving SP as the sole electro empire, and thus the demise of paintball for the most part. Before that could happen though, they'd have to fight just about every company and every organization paintball related to have that much power, and it seems to be heading to that. Brass Eagle, WDP, JT, NPS, DYE (since they now own rights to the matrix) etc have enough $$ to tie this up in courts for several years and probably running SP bankrupt if they wanted.

    So before making comments to patent this or that to stop SP from using this or that, check the reality and look who is the one that choses what is used on what, which is US the consumer.

    Just wanted to make that comment that its some of the comments are a little far-fetched because we're the ones as consumers that decided what we use on each marker. Keep all the posts coming, its great im glad to see im not the only anti-sp, even though i've been one for 3-4years or so now :P. Also has there been like an online or a writen petition set up or started? those have an effect alot of times. Instead of everyone spamming SP with emails about it, to which their reply will only consist of denying that they're doing anything other than suing ICD. Most of it gets directed to Spesh, though he's a good person and friend, he's doing his job and has to say nothing is going on other than what is "public information" and as far as what Jim had given out earlier, SP probably doesnt want that public knowledge yet bc of how its went sense with everyone pooling links, documents and etc to help go against SP. But its the right thing to do and thanks for the info. Keep giving us all you can since you are a heavy hitter with this sport and have better access to this info and we'll keep finding documents and precidents to help stop this mockery and monopolization

  6. #276
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    9,169
    Whiew……. That was a long read…..

    Is it a joke? Nope. Is the sky falling? I don’t think so.

    As has been pointed out, simply HAVING a patent does not mean what most think it does. And this all has to go to court. Does anyone actually think that if a bunch of folks on an internet forum can clearly show why this patent should not be upheld that some slick well trained lawyer can’t?

    But let’s just play a “what if” game….. What if they WIN?!?!?! Will that be a BAD thing for the “sport”? I guess that would depend if you consider the sport as its manufacturers, or its players. I think there are plenty of non-electrical markers available on the market to outfit players who still want to play. And guess who makes the BEST DAMN MANUAL MARKER on the market? AGD!

    Personally it would not bother me one bit if all electric markers suddenly evaporated. And look at all the problems that would solve. Look at the new dynamic it would bring to the tournament scene. And there are other issues that would not (IMHO) be a negative to the sport in general.

    Will this happen? Again, I don’t think so. But it makes good internet forum material…………………

    Also, Surreal brings up a good point….
    Originally posted by Surreal
    what about NPS? you guys don't seem to care what NPS is doing to all these companies..? it's all a big scheme, that's how business works fellas.
    Most folks don’t seem to give a damn what happens unless they “perceive” it to be negatively affecting them personally. Again, this brings me down to the core question I asked above…. What do people consider the “sport” of paintball….. the manufacturers or the players….. ?

    I tend to think it is the players.... and the "industry" sprang up to support THEM. And the "industry" will always find a way to adapt.

    www.ShartleyCustoms.com
    Custom Paintball Products and Accessories
    CLICK HERE to Check out our PDU SERIES GEAR!


    its more like a paper cut that has primadonna's yelling murder... - Glickman

  7. #277
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    I live where my stuff is
    Posts
    161
    I dont like what I hear but untill TK or someone else asks for help with a boycot or something I recomend we wait and see. I do have faith that our justice system though flawed will preveil(sp?) and with the money BE, Kingman, WGP, WDP, and anyone else I missed this will get tied up in the courts untill a proper solution comes around.

    To who ever said that these forums are mostly 14 year olds who dont know "jack about crap" 1- you are underestimating are nations 14 year olds and 2- most people I listen to and respect on this forum are far older that 14 for example TK, Doc, WAS, sharlty(even though he always seems to have a diffrent opinion than those around him), and Im pretty sure all the mods are atleast of voting age.
    "AHHH The Good Life... Jeep Driving, Paintball Shooting, SCUBA Diving, Hardcore Seabee" ~Yamz

  8. #278
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    2,637
    shartley, don't forget some of the negative effects of the "worst possible outcome". Thousands of people with electronic markers not backed by companies able to support them, many paintball businesses flop, and many people lose jobs. It would be better if SP did not pursue this, even if you dislike electros. As many problems as you said it would solve, I'm also sure it could create just as much or more new problems.
    Converge Kills

  9. #279
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    South Jersey
    Posts
    8,493

    Unhappy

    This is very bad!

    To those that say wait for someone else do do something, remember the parable about the good man and the Nazis.

    He did nothing when they came for his neighbor. They were Jewish. He did nothing when they came for his other neighbor. He was a gypsie. No one did anything when they came for him!

    Greed starts on a small scale. SP will shake down little guys like AGD, WGP, and WDP. Yes, in the larger scheme of things those 3 are little companies. Then he will go after the Kingmans, NPS, and BEs.

    Has anyone noticed the new Smart Parts campaign in your latest PB mags? They are not aimed at you and me, but at dealers and vendors. They are trying to convince resalers to buy directly from them rather then through a distributer like NPS. Laying the ground work for when Gino cuts him off maybe?

    Fortunately Gino is just as greedy as SP. Don't be suprised if he goes after them to protect his own interests down the road, not as a benevolant interloper in the first round of lawsuits.

  10. #280
    shartley they will find a way to adapt, but I highly doubt. and I mean highly that there will ever be a paintball scene with no electronic guns.

    However it turns out I just dont see people switching back to automags and cockers. This is pretty much a fantasy of your that you made up because you dont like electros for some reason. they are the future and will be no matter what SP does.

  11. #281
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Wells, ME, USA
    Posts
    92
    Originally posted by Surreal
    what about NPS? you guys don't seem to care what NPS is doing to all these companies..? it's all a big scheme, that's how business works fellas.
    What are you talking about. Everyone thinks that Gino is a crook. He uses his buying leverage to push small wholesalers out of business, and makes it hard for retailers to make a profit.

    Yes, SmartParts is alot like NPS. Both are large greedy companies that use underhand tactics to get an advantage.
    The difference is that Gino actually makes prices lower by undercutting the market. I think he is the main reason why paintball is a fraction of the cost it was 10 years ago.

    SmartParts will make prices higher by forcing other
    companies to pay high royalty fees.

    Its easy to say that its "just business", and we should move on, but what Smart Parts is doing is not legal.
    SmartParts DOES NOT have a legitimate patent on anything.
    There were MANY electros that came out before the PVI Shocker and some were even patented.
    However, the problem is that SmartParts has skilled patent lawyers gifted at manipulating the system.
    The other companies can barely afford any lawyer.

    And that is the point- Smart Parts hopes that the other companies will fold under pressure.
    This is bad for the player.

    -Nick

    Don't Support Paintball Nazis

    Boycott Smart Parts

  12. #282
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    9,169
    Originally posted by Ov3rmind
    shartley, don't forget some of the negative effects of the "worst possible outcome". Thousands of people with electronic markers not backed by companies able to support them, many paintball businesses flop, and many people lose jobs. It would be better if SP did not pursue this, even if you dislike electros. As many problems as you said it would solve, I'm also sure it could create just as much or more new problems.
    First of all, I never said I didn’t like (or had a dislike for) electros. I know you didn’t say I did, but I want to make that point VERY clear.

    Second…. Yes, there are some very bad downsides to this as well… but THOSE have already been mentioned (for the most part) so why list them again? I am doing what I often do… show the other side of the coin. And THAT is what is often lost in discussions like this. Folks only look to the immediate things they feel will “hurt” them or the “industry” they love (but that love is a funny thing and not to be counted on). So… if you are going to look to what you (generality) think is a bad thing… follow it through. What happens AFTER the initial waves? What happens to the sport in general?

    Those are the things I was trying to briefly touch on.

    And honestly, I don’t see this going as far as it is feared by some here. That is MY opinion. And others are more than free to have and post theirs. I am not sitting here debating them for their opinions…. Heck, I am not debating anything. I am simply stating my opinions with NO debate. I will not get into a tit for tat debate on this issue since it will NOT be decided here on AO, but in a court of law. Yes, letter writing campaigns may help, and anything to get SP to drop the whole mess would be a good thing. But if they don’t, it will be the courts that ultimately make the decision, not AO or ANY consumer or paintball business.

    Anyone also consider the possibility that this may be a publicity stunt? I am NOT saying it is, just tossing that out there. We have seen similar things in other industries….. heck look at “Spike TV” for one. You want to know the last time I even thought about Spike Lee before that? Honestly, I can’t recall.
    Originally posted by Yamz
    I dont like what I hear but untill TK or someone else asks for help with a boycot or something I recomend we wait and see. I do have faith that our justice system though flawed will preveil(sp?) and with the money BE, Kingman, WGP, WDP, and anyone else I missed this will get tied up in the courts untill a proper solution comes around.

    To who ever said that these forums are mostly 14 year olds who dont know "jack about crap" 1- you are underestimating are nations 14 year olds and 2- most people I listen to and respect on this forum are far older that 14 for example TK, Doc, WAS, sharlty(even though he always seems to have a diffrent opinion than those around him), and Im pretty sure all the mods are atleast of voting age.
    Yes, a boycott is a great tool to be used by consumers… and heck, I advocate them.

    Now.. as for me always seeming to have a different opinion than those around me… that is not quite accurate. I often (as stated above) toss out other sides of issues. That does not mean I back them… and often times I don’t. And many times what people think they are disagreeing with me on, is found out to not be the case either…. after things progress. Many times my views and the views of others are not that far apart, but separated by a misunderstanding or a fine point or two. It is all about discussion…. And people thinking. Ever look at a bottle of good salad dressing after it has been sitting for a while? Would you want to simply open it up and put it on your salad, or would you give it a shake or two first?
    Originally posted by 1stdeadeye
    This is very bad!

    To those that say wait for someone else do do something, remember the parable about the good man and the Nazis.

    He did nothing when they came for his neighbor. They were Jewish. He did nothing when they came for his other neighbor. He was a gypsie. No one did anything when they came for him!

    Greed starts on a small scale. SP will shake down little guys like AGD, WGP, and WDP. Yes, in the larger scheme of things those 3 are little companies. Then he will go after the Kingmans, NPS, and BEs.

    Has anyone noticed the new Smart Parts campaign in your latest PB mags? They are not aimed at you and me, but at dealers and vendors. They are trying to convince resalers to buy directly from them rather then through a distributer like NPS. Laying the ground work for when Gino cuts him off maybe?

    Fortunately Gino is just as greedy as SP. Don't be suprised if he goes after them to protect his own interests down the road, not as a benevolant interloper in the first round of lawsuits.
    No you didn’t! You didn’t bring Gino into this!

    I want to make it clear that I am not advocating doing “nothing”. I am just stating that I don’t see this going as far as others do. I may very well be wrong. But one thing I do know I am right about, is that the ultimate power will be in the courts, and if it reaches THAT point, there is nothing any of us can do about it. It is like sitting around worrying about the end of the world…. You can do it, but will that stop anything from happening?

    SP will never come after the paintball player (however, the PLAYER can go after them with a boycott)…. Which is what AO is comprised of (for the most part). So your “Good man and the Nazis” analogy would not work in this situation… it DOES work however for the “industry”.
    Originally posted by phatpat47
    shartley they will find a way to adapt, but I highly doubt. and I mean highly that there will ever be a paintball scene with no electronic guns.

    However it turns out I just dont see people switching back to automags and cockers. This is pretty much a fantasy of your that you made up because you dont like electros for some reason. they are the future and will be no matter what SP does.
    Again, please note that I NEVER said I didn’t like electro markers. LOL I would be MOST happy if folks don’t assign feelings and opinions to me that I don’t have. Thank you.

    And I never said folks will turn back to anything…. Since when didn’t folks already use Cockers and Mags? How about Spyders? Tippmanns? Heck, seems to me that there really isn’t any shortage of manual markers out there…. the last time I looked. And many of them are made by the same companies that ALSO make electronic markers.

    And as for there will never be a paintball scene with no electronic guns…. What was it like in the early 90’s? And can the same be said about turbos in the auto industry, or how about superchargers? Every industry will continue as long as there is a need/want for it… no matter what “technology” is used or not used. I am not arguing whether the sport will be better, or worse. I was just saying that it will continue. You can’t get rid of one part and think it will just disappear.

    The industry, and the sport is NOT electronic paintball markers, they are just equipment used IN the sport. You can even get rid of all motorized hoppers, and the sport will continue. Paintball players will continue to play paintball, even if they have to use pump markers. Will they be happy with the change? Some maybe, but a lot probably not. But I don’t personally see the sport drying up because any one element is taken away from it.

    Again, is this a bad thing that SP is doing? I personally think so. I just don’t see it as the end of paintball as a sport…. no matter WHAT happens.

  13. #283
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Redsox Nation
    Posts
    2,030
    well, i just killed the first hour and half at work reading this entire thread. lots of interesting posts and lots of interesting viewpoints..

    few things I have to say..

    tom, from what I understand, the ULE trigger didnt just come to you in a dream, so I have to ask, how long have you known that this patent lawsuit was on its way?

    I look over a few things here and realize that what SP is trying to do is not really in the best interest of the sport. as someone already posted about disney suing that kid over the use of a disney character, he is right. If a company does not enforce their patent, copyright, trademark or whatever, they lose the right to it.

    ill be honest with some of you here, not that it matters, but, the next marker i was looking to pick up was a vision impy.. ill tell you what, after this its not a likely purchase for me now, nor in the near future.

    while i personally do not agree with what SP as a company in the industry is doing, I cannot blame them for trying to enforce a patent that they supposedly hold. If ANY of you were in the position that smart parts was to enforce said patent, you would be in a courtroom filing to defend that patent or broaden it (which is it that they are actually filing for.. to defend or broaden.. or have they already brodened and going to defend?)

    I may have missed this in this thread, but I have not seen one link to the FTC that says SP holds the patent on electropneumatic paintball markers. If I missed that, please correct me and re-post the link.

    also, the navy.. I may have missed that one too, if there is a direct link to the FTC showing the patents, I want to see it as well.

    I would have to say, bottom line, this does suck. I am almost sure that with this lawsuit, companies that normally are cut-throat competitive with eachother, will unite on this one and made themselves be heard, that this is total BS. If they dont, shame on them.

    "it is better to have fought and lost than not to have fought at all"
    having not fighting at all, there is no telling what may or may not have resulted. if you stand idly by and do nothing, there is no telling how the results may have changed had you stood up and made your voice heard...

    perfect example of this is the song "i will be heard" by Hatebreed. give it a listen.

  14. #284
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    407
    Where's your proof? You have no idea how long I've been playing paintball.
    Just cant get threw to some ppl.....

    My proof? Here:
    Angels were the first gun to really "flood" the scene.
    Yknow I could agrue that the SMG-60 was the first to "flood" the scene but Im not gonna waste my time.

    Shockers were extremely popular when they were first released and flooded the scene, proving you wrong. And about that whole SP first electro thing, if you ask a player who ivented the electro, unless they go and search hard for it they will say"Smart Parts".SP is credited with the first electro, not the Navy or anything else.

    Either way you look at it ppl will still buy SP products. Impys and Shockers are stand up products. Most ppl in paintball arent "in the know". They dont understand that we should all hate SP, and will continue buying products from them.

  15. #285
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    6,130
    Originally posted by Ov3rmind
    AGD really should patent compressed air for paintball guns, then SP can bow down from it's Nazi perch and kiss AGD's ***.

    This is terrible, any company who takes money over the sport they market for does not deserve a profit at all. From here on out, I will NEVER buy a single SP product ever. And just incase and SP head honchos stumble across this, I am going to advise everyone I play with and other people at my local fields to do the same.
    I am sort of worried about this.

    Will this start a huge patent war? Will all companies rush to find somethign they can patent, and when this is all over, making it hard for ANYONE to make anything?

    Anywhoo, I believe AGD should patent air tanks (or the flatline regulator, but the tank itself would be more secure), single tube design, and the regulated valve just for the purpose of going against SP. I know its stupid, but you can knock off MaxFlo, the new shocker, and im sure you can screw them over somehow with the valve. They should be charged the exact amount they stole from the paintball world
    Last edited by FalconGuy016; 07-22-2003 at 08:37 AM.
    Hey
    AIM: FalconGuy016
    BANG!!!


  16. #286
    joey d

    SP's Patents

    Navy's Patent

    Also what was mentioned about FTC was the shutdown on Adam Gardner and George Davidson (of Smart Parts) patent submission scam.

    FTC Document

    All thise links were in the thread, or on a page that was linked from the thread

    I think those were what u were asking for if not well i know the navy one was one so


    ALSO one of the IOG members (one of their big posters with 2200+ posts) actually posted a link for a petition on IOG for Anti-SP btw he shoots a viking now instead of an imp , but heres the link to the petition since the threads probably closed by now like the other 5 or 6

    Anti-SmartParts Online Petition

  17. #287
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    south florida
    Posts
    435
    smartparts=PIGS!!


    my feedback
    http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...threadid=74858

    WHY CANT I KEEP A GUN FOR MORE THAN A WEEK??

    SPONSORED BY: kingman, nationalpaintballsupply, prixusa.com

  18. #288
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Wells, ME, USA
    Posts
    92
    Originally posted by Johnny_Reb

    Shockers were extremely popular when they were first released and flooded the scene, proving you wrong. And about that whole SP first electro thing, if you ask a player who ivented the electro, unless they go and search hard for it they will say"Smart Parts".SP is credited with the first electro, not the Navy or anything else.
    I think most people would argue that the Shockers flooded -any- scene. They seemed more like a gimmick when they came out. The Tournament scene since 1988 consisted of mostly Bushies, then Mags, then Cockers, then Angels... now its mostly mixed. The only team I've played that used all Shockers was the All Americans...

    Yes, most people think Smart Parts invented the electro- Why? Because most players started playing AFTER the shocker came out. I'm old enough to remember a couple of electros from the early 90s. To say that the Shocker was the first commercial electro is totally ignorant. Was it the first mass-produced one? Yes. Does that give them exclusive rights? No. Did they even design/produce it? No. That was PVI.

    Most players think the Shocker was the first Full-Auto... no, that was in 1986
    Most people think the flatline was the first "backspin system". No, that was the BetterBolt.

    NIck

  19. #289
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    407
    Most players think the Shocker was the first Full-Auto...
    Most players havent been playing very long. The average player will tell you that SP invented the first electro, after all SP's always bragging and shoving it in ppl's faces that they invented the first electro.

    As for the Shocker I have seen and heard enough ppl talk about its popularity when it first came out. After all its what made SP popular among players. Its popularity was short lived tho, John Rice ivented the Angel not much longer, taking alot of sales away from SP. It was about this time when SP started getting more aggressive in their ads, they hired a new guy to market them, who is responsible for the SP logo and adds.

  20. #290
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    In Uranus
    Posts
    1,859
    Its just sad... This is why paintball will never make it big. No matter how friendly, and team spirited the players may be, the driving industry will always be full of backstabbing, money hungry people. This doesn't surprise me coming from an industry that splits its venues because of money and recognition.

    Paintball = money, not comraderie/sportsmanship
    WE ARE DEADCELL, AND WE WILL RUN THROUGH YOU

    Dayspring - "We've had Clare at Shatnerball." "I'm confident that she can take 20 guys."

    "I'd trade my cocker for some steady pu**y"

  21. #291
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    407
    Its just sad... This is why paintball will never make it big. No matter how friendly, and team spirited the players may be, the driving industry will always be full of backstabbing, money hungry people. This doesn't surprise me coming from an industry that splits its venues because of money and recognition.
    So true.....but their are companies like AGD, WGP, WDP,etc. that care about the sport and want it to grow.

  22. #292
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Wouldn't you like to know?
    Posts
    331
    This probably is a stupid idea, but couldn't a company sell an electro without the switch, then have the owner of the gun buy a switch at Radio Shack and install it, similar to the Intelliframe?

  23. #293
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    9,169
    Originally posted by JEDI
    Its just sad... This is why paintball will never make it big. No matter how friendly, and team spirited the players may be, the driving industry will always be full of backstabbing, money hungry people. This doesn't surprise me coming from an industry that splits its venues because of money and recognition.

    Paintball = money, not comraderie/sportsmanship
    Ever look at the auto industry? Heck, how about ANY industry?

    Often times what is labeled as “back stabbing” by the consumer is NOT. And competition in an industry is GOOD for the consumer, not BAD.

    As for Paintball never making it big… I have heard that MANY times over the years. And yet the sport continues to grow. I don’t see these standard business issues really keeping the sport down, or from growing, but there are other issues that can (and has been discussed here on AO).

    This is just business jockeying that happens in ALL industries, but most of the time the consumer is not aware of it. That is one thing that sets paintball apart…. the players think they have more of a say in the INDUSTRY than they do, or should… again perceptions. The players have more of a look to the inside of the “industry” than they do for just about any other industry (aside from maybe the computer industry, but there is still much that the average consumer does not see).

  24. #294
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    9,169
    Originally posted by Johnny_Reb
    So true.....but their are companies like AGD, WGP, WDP,etc. that care about the sport and want it to grow.
    This has NOTHING to do with SP wanting the sport to grow or not. It has to do with them thinking they have a right to something and are now attempting to enforce that right. We may not agree with it, and they may be wrong in thinking they have a right… but they deserve to be able to state their case in court.

    Again… if AGD, WGP, or ANY other company (aside from BE, since folks seem to hate them as well… for running their BUSINESS like a BUSINESS), were to aggressively enforce what THEY thought were their rights, folks would cheer them for it. Enforcing what you consider your rights does not mean you don’t want the sport to grow. Heck, it would actually be to your benefit if it DID grow, all the while getting what you deserve from its growth.

    Folks just want to be polarized on this issue because of personal feelings… I can understand that. But at least be honest about it. I don’t think any company listed, if held up to scrutiny on each and every decision they made, would walk away shiny and clean under the same standards folks want to hold the “bad guys” to.

    This has nothing to do with who wants the sport to grow or not. But of course, as in most cases, it is common practice to make the other side “look” bad…. whether they truly are or not. It is easier to form a “like” or “dislike” about a person or company, than it is to just look at what is actually happening….. that is why not everyone makes good Police Officers, or Judges.

  25. #295
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    254
    Originally posted by m-98
    This probably is a stupid idea, but couldn't a company sell an electro without the switch, then have the owner of the gun buy a switch at Radio Shack and install it, similar to the Intelliframe?
    It isn't just the switch se pas, its the fact its elctro pneumatic..

    Paul
    www.alphapaintball.co.uk
    UK Distributor for AKA
    All questions or queries
    mail me here


    ***********************************

    Improve your game Click here for PGI And WPG 2003

    ***********************************

  26. #296
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Vernal, Utah
    Posts
    1,077
    I am closing my distributer account with smartparts, if this goes thru it will badly hurt every paintball buissness out there. The ULE trigger may soon be the best method of getting a high rate of fire.

  27. #297
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Wouldn't you like to know?
    Posts
    331
    Thanks for the prompt reply. I posted that idea because the patent info was confusing and I just remember people here saying it was just the on/off switch, well maybe someone said it.

  28. #298
    well, for those who are saying that this will help mechanical markers, I'm sure you're right. But do you think that the onslaught of cheap electros had anything to do with the affordability of mech's nowadays? I remember my brother bought his first spyder for $140. Powerfeed, m16 grip, and just a regular bottomline. Now what does $140 get you? Prolly a vert feed egrip with a regulator. You can get a BKO for $250 now... stock cockers can be found for just a little over $300, and that's with vert feed and a 45 swing frame. Cockers used to be $400 for rf and a old crappy grip. Even more the further you go back. Not to mention the details that they added, like drilling the bodies to adjust the sear lug, valve jam nuts, and decent stock pneumatics.

    The mag has undergone constant renovation during this time, and the price has still declined.

    Mags and cockers, while also affected heavily by the vert bodies and lvl10, have gotten cheaper because of electros.

    If the sport goes back to the day when there are no electros, do you think the now ultra-competitive mechs are going to keep their prices low? Maybe, Tom Kaye is a nice guy, but from a business standpoint, I just don't see it happening industry wide. Think also of the paint consumption... that might affect your playing price a little when RPS and ProCaps can't sell as much paint. Might be slight, but it will affect it.

    So no, it might not kill the sport, and paintball did exist before the advent of the electro, but I don't want to go back to paying those prices.

    DK1

  29. #299
    Originally posted by m-98
    This probably is a stupid idea, but couldn't a company sell an electro without the switch, then have the owner of the gun buy a switch at Radio Shack and install it, similar to the Intelliframe?
    Not being too familiar with and never used an intelliframe, but here goes. Maybe i miss-read but from reading and studying the patents, posts and comments from tom and jim as well as doc and a few others that i know are reliable sources. It seems that it also refers to electronic grip frames. This would also include items such as the eblade as well. They're patents cover basically everything, battery opperated, soleniod opperated, electro with on off switch, etc. Maybe i'm wrong but from reading the various patents they have, if they can prove its totally legit and all (which can be done in court, hell look at the oj trial, just need good lawyers which SP ofcourse does, especially in the patent portion), then they would have a lock on ANY electronic marker, also gripframes and such to convert to electro. Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but that was my interpertation of the patents and etc. I'm no legal wiz so i could be wrong
    Last edited by icegod; 07-22-2003 at 09:32 AM.

  30. #300
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    In Uranus
    Posts
    1,859
    So true.....but their are companies like AGD, WGP, WDP,etc. that care about the sport and want it to grow.
    I'm not talking about growth. I'm talking about growing in the eyes of the non paintball public. No one will want to embrace paintball as a new sport as long as the inter-industry fighting continues. And as far as WDP goes, they're not much better. They pretty much run the NPPL, and refuse to show up at any other venues. They're in it for the promotion status.

    Ever look at the auto industry? Heck, how about ANY industry? Often times what is labeled as “back stabbing” by the consumer is NOT. And competition in an industry is GOOD for the consumer, not BAD.

    As for Paintball never making it big… I have heard that MANY times over the years. And yet the sport continues to grow. I don’t see these standard business issues really keeping the sport down, or from growing, but there are other issues that can (and has been discussed here on AO).
    Again, I'm not talking about growth compared to previous years. Shartley, I'm not trying to make this a rec ball vs. tourney ball issue,(really, I'm not) but if you've been to any majors lately, you'd noticed how stripped down they are. Different big name companies refuse to show up at different venues. Paintball has split between the PSP, and the NPPL. X-ball teams are not allowed by their sponsors, to play anything but X-ball. Its all about personal interest, and who will benefit from what.

    Its my opinion that paintball will never see the light of day compared to tennis, football, or baseball. No one will be interested as long as there is inter-industry fighting. the paintball industry cant agree to help paintball. Companies only want to help themselves.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •