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Thread: Smart Parts Patent Will Destroy Paintball! - Read!

  1. #151
    Trying to keep this page updated as much as possible.

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  2. #152
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    Originally posted by Animal Mother


    Yeahhhhhh!! And I'll save the twins so they will forver be in debt to me.

    heh heh...

    Oh no you wont I will shoot u in the knee caps and save em before u can waddle over there. I will let u save the wierd one with the freaky piercings.

  3. #153
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    Originally posted by Harbinger[TG]
    I love all this crap from a company that wasnt even around for pumps and pistols...WTF they are like a 10yr old company
    They made a pump called the "Boss".
    Basically, a generic nelson clone.

    I think it came out in 1989?

    Nick

    Don't Support Paintball Nazis

    Boycott Smart Parts

  4. #154
    cant we just get around this by coming up w/ a new device(or name) for something that breaks the current? Like a manuall circuit breaker?

    or does the patent cover the principle of the switch to?
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  5. #155
    Originally posted by Mav D MagMan
    Sounds more like they were just the first to patent one with an on/off switch. Which screws the guys who were already maken em.

    Mav
    nah, not really. You can't patent something that's already being made by someone else, or is in the public domain. Just because SP has a patent doesn't mean it's worth anything. It will go to trial, that's where the decision will be made on what SP really owns the rights to.


    as for the price of guns going up, Doc is absolutely right unless you just want to be real nitpicky. Price passed onto consumer eventually is decided by price elasticity of demand, but is generally very lopsided (some companies might choose to actually lower their percentage, but it won't be much in comparison). So, for all intents and purposes, you will see all the fees rolled right over into the price. IE, if SP wins, most companies will go out of business because no one will pay $3000 for their stuff.

    Guess what happens then? Do you think SP will charge more or less when no one else is allowed to compete with them? Yup, just because they can sell their gun for $600 and still make money doesn't mean they won't jack it to $1000 when everyone else is gone. They won't do it with the same model, but when the new and improved comes out, you can bet your butt it'll come with a nice shiney new price tag to go with it. SO, this suit will then apply not only to those who hate SP, but also those who buy their products.

    to the market where you have a producer with no competitors.

    DK1

  6. #156
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    If you ask me SP is sending a serious message to the players"DONT MESS WITH SP!" Now if SP could do this to other companies this could psyche out alot of players. Ppl wont feel safe buying non SP electros, thusly resulting in increased gun sales for SP.

  7. #157
    yep squid thats pretty much it...
    hes going to leave my thread open though. Discussion over there might actoually be a little more impactfull if thats a word.
    http://www.impulseownersgroup.com/vb...threadid=22357

  8. #158
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    Originally posted by Johnny_Reb
    True No skillz but Shockers were the first to really catch on, and as most ppl see it they invented the first electro.
    Catch on? Is that like "Since Coke sells more than Pepsi every year it gives them the right to aquire patents on soft drinks?"

    Last time I checked, Angels were the first electro to "flood" the scene.

  9. #159
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    or does the patent cover the principle of the switch to?
    Lol didnt you hear robert SP patented electricty

  10. #160
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    Last time I checked, Angels were the first electro to "flood" the scene.
    Um No. Angels had a huge impact on the electro scene but Shockers had alrdy made a giant impact before them man.

  11. Originally posted by jinxed


    They made a pump called the "Boss".
    Basically, a generic nelson clone.

    I think it came out in 1989?

    Nick
    Really, i didnt know that. I remember the old nelspot days...good times...I dont remember nelson trying to sue everyone back then, but i was a kid

  12. #162
    well i have school toomorow, but good luck with the fight. If I were a laywer id try to help you out.

  13. #163
    WickedAirSportz Guest
    Well if you guys remember SP has been pushing for this for a long time. But look at it from their point of view: They invent the electro gun only to have others copy and make millions of dollars. You make the first switicable bore barrel only to have others copy it.
    The problem here is that Smart Parts did not invent either of these. Do a patent search yourself and you will see what we mean!

  14. #164
    One more thing the rest of the Paintball companies can use against SP is Advertising. Think of where just about all teh paintball advertising is... thats right Magazines now when flipping through them what do u see mostly BE and Kingman with WDP WGP and AGD in there too. Now lets say that all the paintball companies got together and said hey every painball mag out there we are not going to buy advertising if u allow SP to advertise as well. What are the mags gonna do lose most of there money or cut SP out and lose a very minimal amout compared to that of losing everyone else. Im sure SP doesnt have the mney to buy up all the advertising of Kingman, Tippmann, BE, AGD, WDP, WGP, AGD, and all of the other....

    I think this is very serious but there is just too much going again SP for this to get much further as long as we and everyone in the world of paintball stand up agains them.

  15. Originally posted by WickedAirSportz


    The problem here is that Smart Parts did not invent either of these. Do a patent search yourself and you will see what we mean!
    Then how the hell has it come this far?... Your way more conected to the industry than we are; thank you for all the knowledgeble posts and info. We really appreciate it. That goes for everyone helping the cause.

    Kevin

  16. #166
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    Originally posted by Johnny_Reb
    If you ask me SP is sending a serious message to the players"DONT MESS WITH SP!" Now if SP could do this to other companies this could psyche out alot of players. Ppl wont feel safe buying non SP electros, thusly resulting in increased gun sales for SP.
    Whatever you are smoking, Johnny, please be good enough to share with the rest of us. And for your own good, don't fall asleep in economics class.

    BTW, just cuz some of your local buddies picked up a few shockers back in the day doesn't mean the majority of the paintball world did.

  17. #167
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    The problem here is that Smart Parts did not invent either of these. Do a patent search yourself and you will see what we mean!
    If you had to do a search to figure out who invented the first electro chances are SP has a good chance of winning the case.

  18. #168
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    Originally posted by Johnny_Reb
    Lol didnt you hear robert SP patented electricty
    and Al Gore invented the internet

  19. #169
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    BTW, just cuz some of your local buddies picked up a few shockers back in the day doesn't mean the majority of the paintball world did.
    Well actually none of my friends own shockers but thats besides the point. If you knew anything about the past of paintball(which youve alrdy proven you dont) you would know that Shockers were very popular when they were relaesed.

  20. #170
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    Originally posted by Johnny_Reb
    If you had to do a search to figure out who invented the first electro chances are SP has a good chance of winning the case.
    Wow. Any comments? Anyone?

  21. #171
    I agree that its total bs that smartparts is trying to pull this off, but for everyone that actually owns an electro right now, you have nothing to worry about, I mean they aren't gonna take it from u and give u an impulse or something

  22. Another point worth mentioning is that SP didn't even have the first paintgun with a switch. All shockers that were produced under an SP-only patent came with no on-off switches until several years after the start of the "electro revolution".

    Something you all may be forgetting to take into account is the ever-present threat of out-of-court settlements. SP no doubt has a large legal budget, one which may outweigh the entire operating budgets of some of the companies which are going to come under fire due to this new patent expansion. Faced with paying a royalty on each marker and raising the prices on their guns, or losing gangantuan amounts of money in legal fees to try and defend themselves, some may choose the former over the latter. I'd be more worried about companies tanking from exorbitant legal fees than the actual lawsuit itself... there's too much prior art and pre-existing technology for the patent to stand before a competent judge, not to mention the shady pasts of the Gardners and George Davidson - which are relevant in such a trial.

    CQ

  23. #173
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    I havent read this whole thread - but it doesnt surprise me. Its status quo. The have been quietly in the process of suing people who I consider friends at ICD.

    They fail to innovate - only impersonate.

    Furthermore - if they try to enforce thier broad patent they are personally kicking every person in the sport square in the nuts.

    Tom Kaye, Tippmann, Palmer, Orr - they all have made inventions in this sport that caused it to grow and progress as a whole. They didnt capitalize on it - they allowed thier innovations to be used and bring the sport out of the stone ages.

    I think doc nickle has a great post here:

    http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/...eid=1058842375

    Personally - I have been anti smart parts for 3-4 years.

    And if they most to further enforce their patent - I give them a big heafty screw you.

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  24. #174
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    Originally posted by Johnny_Reb
    Well actually none of my friends own shockers but thats besides the point. If you knew anything about the past of paintball(which youve alrdy proven you dont) you would know that Shockers were very popular when they were relaesed.
    Where's your proof? You have no idea how long I've been playing paintball. Popular in what sense? http://www.ivillage.co.uk/ivillageuk...182561,00.html Here, try this real quick.

  25. #175
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    as part of the celebration, i took my hard to get time to make a special picture for us all! take a looksee!
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  26. #176
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    A lot of people here seem to be under the assumption that this needn't be taken seriously as SP would not dare do something like that. I think that is being a bit too optimistic.

    While many lawsuits are frivilous and poorly thought out, it would be safe to assume that this is not one of them. Consider that the SP guys have experience with patent law. Also consider the position they are in. Now, I can not imagine that such a company would not have thought out and weighed the benefits vs. the potential losses. We here were not the first to think lawsuit = boycott. You can bet they have already factored in the possibility that there would be a large segment of the buying public that would be very angry with them, and I am sure they know how far some are willing to go. They know full well that they may take a hit intially. However, I am sure they have been busy analyzing their sales trends, and have probably reasoned such that
    A) The hit they take won't be big enough to cause significant fiscal harm, such that they would be threatened in any way
    B) The hit they do take would be negated many times over by the potential profit they will make.

    Now, I can't speculate on how this will pan out. However; I may be pessimistic; I must assume that IF SP plans to carry out this suit as we have been speculating, they not only feel confident that they can and will win, but that any negative publicity and initial loss of sales would be absorbed and negated in the long term.

    To distill things, I think that unless we are all frighteningly proactive about this, SP WILL sue. The suit may not end they way they wish, but they will certainly try.
    Last edited by rx2; 07-21-2003 at 10:31 PM.
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  27. #177
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    AGD really should patent compressed air for paintball guns, then SP can bow down from it's Nazi perch and kiss AGD's ***.

    This is terrible, any company who takes money over the sport they market for does not deserve a profit at all. From here on out, I will NEVER buy a single SP product ever. And just incase and SP head honchos stumble across this, I am going to advise everyone I play with and other people at my local fields to do the same.
    Converge Kills

  28. #178
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    Originally posted by Conqueror
    Another point worth mentioning is that SP didn't even have the first paintgun with a switch. All shockers that were produced under an SP-only patent came with no on-off switches until several years after the start of the "electro revolution".

    Something you all may be forgetting to take into account is the ever-present threat of out-of-court settlements. SP no doubt has a large legal budget, one which may outweigh the entire operating budgets of some of the companies which are going to come under fire due to this new patent expansion. Faced with paying a royalty on each marker and raising the prices on their guns, or losing gangantuan amounts of money in legal fees to try and defend themselves, some may choose the former over the latter. I'd be more worried about companies tanking from exorbitant legal fees than the actual lawsuit itself... there's too much prior art and pre-existing technology for the patent to stand before a competent judge, not to mention the shady pasts of the Gardners and George Davidson - which are relevant in such a trial.

    CQ
    If the defendant wins the suit, the plaintiff has to pay all legal fees on both sides of the table. FYI.

  29. #179
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    Thumbs up

    SMART PARTS...THE DEVIL IS COMING FOR U, THE QUIJA BOARD SAYS SO!!!
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  30. #180
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    Originally posted by rx2
    A lot of people here seem to be under the assumption that this needn't be taken seriously as SP would not dare do something like that. I think that is being a bit too optimistic.

    While many lawsuits are frivilous and poorly thought out, it would be safe to assume that this is not one of them. Consider that the SP guys have experience with patent law. Also consider the position they are in. Now, I can not imagine that such a company would not have thought out and weighed the benefits vs. the potential losses. We here were not the first to think lawsuit = boycott. You can bet they have already factored in the possibility that there would be a large segment of the buying public that would be very angry with them, and I am sure they know how far some are willing to go. They know full well that they may take a hit intially. However, I am sure they have been busy analyzing their sales trends, and have probably reasoned such that
    A) The hit they take won't be big enough to cause significant fiscal harm, such that they would be threatened in any way
    B) The hit they do take would be negated many times over by the potential profit they will make.

    Now, I can't speculate on how this will pan out. However; I may be pessimistic; I must assume that IF SP plans to carry out this suit as we have been speculating, they not only feel confident that they can and will win, but that any negative publicity and initial loss of sales would be absorbed and negated in the long term.
    Ur missing the point. If SP wins, they are under NO obligation to produce anything. They collect royalties and licensing fees from other people who care enough about making markers to continue, and the most effort they ever have to exert is walking to the mailbox to pull out the check (unless they have direct deposit).

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