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Thread: Speed Check/ W.A.S.

  1. #1
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    Speed Check/ W.A.S.

    First off,there's alot of talk about the new WAS board for the Impy.I would like to state that Jim does not claim any ROF of this vid but it is pretty smoking.I hope someone here will put an actual figure on it.

    www.microcode-solutions.com/test6.avi 4+ meg

    And

    www.microcode-solutions.com/test6-small.wmv

    Jay.

    P.S. He claims Semi-only.
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  2. #2
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    not many people like Jim Drew around here.
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  3. #3
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    Does anyone like Jim Drew around here? How many people have actually met Jim Drew around here?
    http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...light=feedback

    My girlfriend said that if i bought another paintball gun, she'd leave me........ I sure am going to miss her.

  4. #4
    He's a cool guy. We met him at HB. I shoot an Impulse, so we spoke in depth about the technical aspects of the new WAS board. It seems to fix a lot of problems with the vision board on how it reads paint, and shortening the delay so that it fires faster (the board has no mrof).

    The Impulse Board is not designed to create the dramatic improvements seen over the stock board in Intimidators. The bounce/debounce programming is probably the most difficult the understand, and I couldnt explain correctly.

    It does enable you to shoot faster. Combined with an I Frame, I am told it can acheive higher rates of fire with less effort. Thats good enough for me.

  5. #5
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    i met him and talked with him for some time before i realized who he w.a.s.. nice enough guy plays hard straight up paintball. his claims might not be true, but the was board for the timmy makes a world of difference so he is on to something. I think his problem on this forum was he was unwilling to admit that his claims were,,, false. but he is not the first guy/company to make false claims, and definatly not the last.

  6. #6
    WickedAirSportz Guest
    Good grief... what false claims? I would be happy to admit I was wrong if I was. What are you talking about here?

  7. #7
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    well u know i want one of those...
    that must be shootin 20 bps since the vid is 20 secs long and i think he ran out of balls so...yeah bout 20 bps probably less.
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  8. #8
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    Only thing I've never understood is: How does a board help you increase your ROF? I can understand if your hitting limits (pulling 18bps when the board only allows 15), but what makes a gun with a different board take "less effort" to get higher ROF's?
    Hey Zero, how much did that Chipley cost ya?

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  9. #9
    WickedAirSportz Guest
    By having more time for the balls to drop, you increase the rate of fire. Since the pneumatic cycling is entirely computer controlled (using the eye system), the computer can adjust all of the parameters in real time to account for changes due to o-ring wear, dirt, etc. The faster the pnuematics can cycle, the easier it is to achieve a high rate of fire.

    In some cases, we can severely reduce the dwell time necessary. For example, with a stock hardware used in the Viking (and Excalibur), a normal dwell setting of 17ms (which is 18.26ms due to a software bug) is used. With the Equalizer board in the same marker, the dwell can be set to 12ms and achieve the same velocity and better consistancy. This means that by the time you have shot 6 balls with the stock hardware, you could have shot 7 with the Equalizer... and got better efficiency and battery life.

  10. #10
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    dear god not this again. can we just get a bps count on that video?
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  11. #11
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    I don't know about his claims, but I really don't care. I plan on getting a WAS board for my Classic, and have Mr. Petty do his magic. Should be more than outstanding.

    Only thing I've never understood is: How does a board help you increase your ROF? I can understand if your hitting limits (pulling 18bps when the board only allows 15), but what makes a gun with a different board take "less effort" to get higher ROF's?
    Don't know if this is the answer you are looking for, but there are more "windows" (possibilities to shoot) so it allows you to shoot as fast as your finger can press the trigger.
    "Yea, well, if wishes were horses, then we'd be all eating steak."

  12. #12
    WickedAirSportz Guest
    dear god not this again. can we just get a bps count on that video?
    Yes, please do. I am happy to say that the AOG forum has been the source of definite "proof" of the videos in the past.

  13. #13
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    But is 15bps not 15bps? I mean, if your only limited by your finger speed with a stock board (say capped at 18) then what makes the new one "Allow" you to get more out of it?

    If your only pulling 15bps then you'll only be pulling 15bps... regardless of board.

  14. #14
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    ...trigger bounce?

  15. #15
    WickedAirSportz Guest
    What people don't understand is that any many cases you might actually be pulling the trigger 17 bps and the marker is only firing 15 bps due to how often the trigger is checked. This is the problem with the SOB for the Intimidator. It scans the trigger every 15ms (66.6 times per second). If a cycle time takes 45ms (typical) you are looking at the minimum time of 60ms between cycles, and if you miss the trigger input window, you have to wait another 15ms before the next trigger scan.

    With the Equalizer, we scan the trigger 1 million times per second, including while the marker is cycling. If you happen to pull the trigger during the cycle, it is qued and processed immediately following the completion of the current cycle. Admittedly, this is an extremely rare occurance.

  16. #16

    a smooth Mhz...

    That's really fast polling... what do you use to debounce the trigger switch?

    -Wynken

  17. #17
    Well, I can see that. But I think the question he was asking was how does it increase the rate of fire on an Impulse? I could be wrong. I dont know the answer, but I do know that pre-WAS my friend's 2k2 wasnt getting higher than 16, post-WAS we were hitting 20+.

    Its nice to see you post out here. Go Arizona, as few of us out here as there are.

    Also, is there a projected release date, or is it still too early to tell?

    And how did you enjoy Huntington Beach?

  18. #18
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    looks like he out shot the halo for just a second. looks nice. my impy friends will be happy with that.

  19. #19
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    so Jim, when is WAS going to make a board for the emag?

    Next on my list for my timmy is a WAS board and i think that your products are well worth the $ (love the thermometer by the way). Any update on the link?


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  20. #20
    WickedAirSportz Guest
    HB was great!

    Tex just made me a new Halo with special software to drop at 32 bps so I can do some full auto videos. Yes, I think that there are a few times that I outrun the Halo's spring cone. The new Halo will fix that.

    No boards for eMags. I don't know if it is even necessary, and I know the market is not currently large enough to warrant production. We would have to sell 250 units just to break even on production costs.

    There is no release date for the Impulse version.

    We got 10,080 Equalinks in and we are doing assembly (connectors and cases). Look for them on our website when we reopen, but I know its going to be flood of orders.

  21. #21
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    Queuing trigger events can increase your ROF. However, I personally believe that it should NOT be considered semi auto. The marker does fire as a result of a trigger pull and release, however, it does NOT fire WHEN you pull and release the trigger. I believe the WHEN clause should be added to all semi trigger pull definitions.

    Queuing trigger events can also be dangerous. The longer the queue, the more dangerous. Overshooting can become a real problem with long queues. Just think what COULD happen with a 32 element queue.


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  22. #22
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    Is the queue in the Equalizer is only the length of the cycle time...? compared to the original timmy board queue of 3/4 second.

    Over shooting? How many "extra" shots can you put into the queue?

  23. #23
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    If the queue is "only" the length of the cycle time then it wouldn't be overly dangerous. It still has the potential to continue firing after you release the trigger (although for an admittedly short time). I still fully believe that "my" WHEN clause should be added to the definition of semi-auto.

  24. #24
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    Isn't it possible to negate the queue with the debounce feature? (Debounce time = computer ignores all trigger pulls for x amount of time)

    If you set the debounce time eual to the queue time, wouldn't it cancel the queue? ...solving your concerns?

  25. #25
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    Originally posted by Jack & Coke
    Isn't it possible to negate the queue with the debounce feature? (Debounce time = computer ignores all trigger pulls for x amount of time)

    If you set the debounce time equal to the queue time, wouldn't it cancel the queue? ...solving your concerns?
    Sure. But why have the queue in the first place? Also, if the user can change it on the field then it's not semi "legal".

    My point (yeah, I do have one ) is that "my" WHEN clause should be added to the definition of semi-auto. It covers a lot of the "tricks" currently being use to artificially increase ROF. Trigger bounce being one of the big "tricks". Then again, that one is covered by the current rule.

  26. #26
    WickedAirSportz Guest
    Unless you can pull the trigger faster than the cycle time (typically about 45ms), then the que won't happen at all. So, unless you can pull the trigger in excess of 22 bps, you will never have any shot ever qued.

  27. #27
    Well I guess I'll need it then. That would be so insane if I was getting ahead of myself, and I stopped pulling the trigger and it still fired one or two shots.

  28. #28
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    Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
    Unless you can pull the trigger faster than the cycle time (typically about 45ms), then the que won't happen at all. So, unless you can pull the trigger in excess of 22 bps, you will never have any shot ever qued.
    Then what is the point? Why would this be a selling point if it would never happen when using your marker? And if this is the case, what good does it actually DO… aside from paper numbers used to impress buyers not interested in real world applications?

    This reminds me of putting a stop chute in a Yugo and listing that as one of its selling points. But then when asked about safety issues that may arise by improper deployment of that chute the salesman responds with, “Well, actually the chute does not deploy until the car reaches a minimum speed of 186 MPH, which will never happen. The Yugo’s top speed is only 98 MPH. See, nothing to worry about!”

    Features are only good if they can be used in practical applications, and honestly, sometimes not even then. But they sure do impress folks, don’t they?

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  29. #29
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    I have to say the WAS boards are bad(in a good way)! Its like night and day with the SOB. It won't fire, AT ALL, if there isnt a ball in the chamber, unlike the SOB where it might do that and chop. And for all you people who haven't tried it, or seen the difference between a WAS timmy and a SOB timmy then maybe you should before grilling a good product, well except for the Equalink part, my team mate wants his Stop making him wait! lol Oh and is it true your gonna stop making the boards with only a debounce setting of 1.5 instead of 1?

    And Shartley, there might be some features that you will never use, but there are a few great ones that are really good, I could care less about the extra doodads and thingamajigs like the LCD angel with email, cell phone bla bla bla, the WAS board does 2 things i like:
    1.Increases your rate of fire
    2.helps with chopping problems by not firing at all until a ball is in the breech

    Those 2 things drastically help alot, the other stuff is all fine and great, but after setting it up right, it probably wont be touched ever again. I see what your saying but what if AGD said "goes up to 30bps" on one of their advertisements? you gonna critisize AGD and say "well your never gonna get there"? I doubt it, your a AGD zealot and when a Timmy guy gets on here its like your duty to give him a hard time, cant we all just be friends?
    Last edited by MaChu; 05-03-2003 at 09:21 AM.
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  30. #30
    I never did liek WAS and i never really knew why i didnt liek him i just didnt because everyone else here didnt. After reading his posts today i can see where hes coming from and do believe that his boards are a good thing. I really dont think you guys are looking at the queue idea logically. Its not going to happen that often but if it does it not going to keep firing after u let go it would put out ONE extra shot. Unless you can fire at 44 bps which im sure most cant. Its not going to be dangerous because by the time ur brain tells ur finger to stop shooting the gun would already have shot that queued ball. The when clause has no validity in my opinion unless someone made a board that would save up shots so u could pul the trigger ten times and then hit a button and it shoots ten times on its own. Your agrument makes no since at all your just trying to nit pick things he says so that you can prove your point about him being evil.

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