Using a pneumatic cylinder to reset bolt, i.e. no bolt spring idea

[the electrician]

well the mag power tube is already within .005"
I would not want to get it any tighter than .003" different metals expand at different rates, and you need some freedom of movement for speed. making the whole thing within too tight of tolerances would only add friction to the set-up, not what you want. grease would not be good for this either. you don't want that getting blown down the barrel and ruining accuracy.

I have a design to use some delrin rings(like palmer's design) that will hopefully seal like I want it to, and keep the friction as low as it can be.

the bolt doesn't move all the way out. the bolt stem barely does in stock form I believe.
I don't understand your idea of holes.
in my design (as of now), the bolt stem will be a bit larger most of it's length and will come completely out of the power tube tip about .030" the back of the bolt will still be riding on the power tube.the air will be released at a precise time and waste is minimized by the power tube tip outer seal, and the lack of the ever increasing opposing spring force that would nornally slow the bolt down and decrease the release time and flow area.

the bolt travel can be whatever you want ot make it, but .700" is just too small. it will be more like .900" when it's all said and done. the loss of air in the breech is more than the air that would be gained in the cylinder by making the stroke as short as .7"

[Magaman]

Ok, let me know what you think...

The Housing Fits in the same space occupied by the bolt and "Spring"...

This design uses a newly designed Bolt as far as the outside is concerned... The inside can stay the same design the uses the Lvl 10 and Lvl Power Tube Set up...

The Concept Here is that the air fills up the open spaces inside the housing where the Bolt Sits and pushes the "Bolt Back"... There are other ways of setting up the Bolt inside, this is just one of the better concepts I had...

I'm just thinking this will eliminate the problems of fitting pneumatic parts in the main body and I think this might work more efficiently for air...

If my head wasn’t hurting form thinking too much I’d write more about this, but I leave it up to you guys to ponder on my idea a little and see if this might shed some light on other possibilities for making your project work...

Note: The Pictures are Cut Aways...

Edit: Forgot to Attach my Picture.. Doh...

[undescriptive]

that's quite cunning

using the bolt as part of a ram - yes it really does solve the milling side of stuff, but how does the air get exhausted out of the housing and 2 is that going to be enough area to keep the bolt back?

edit

just looking @ the pics a bit more... on the return of the bolt, could the air chamber for return vent into the gripframe??

[the electrician]

nice job on the pic, but you are creating more sealing surfaces with that design. it's harder to machine, unnecessary, and the added seal will just add more friction. you are coming up with good stuff, I'm not trying to discourage at all, just constructive critiscism. don't get mad at me. have you ever taken apart a matrix, or a newer shocker? take a look inside one and you can get an idea of how simple you can make an integrated bolt/cylinder design.

I've pretty much got my design hashed out, I'm getting new machines soon and I'm not going to start building the proto-type until I get them.

like I said, the cylinder around the bolt is the same idea used in a matrix (also the newer shockers) that's what the plan is, only single acting.

I've done alot of research to come up with a design that I think will work really well and be much more efficient than the automag is now. it "should" be able to operate with around 250-260 psi when all is said and done.

one step at a time. first, I'm going to make the cylinder design, test it, then work on the bolt design and test it.

[undescriptive]

sounds good

pencil me in as a beta tester!
and put me first in the que for a mod too :P

[Magaman]

nice job on the pic, but you are creating more sealing surfaces with that design. it's harder to machine, unnecessary, and the added seal will just add more friction. you are coming up with good stuff, I'm not trying to discourage at all, just constructive critiscism. don't get mad at me. have you ever taken apart a matrix, or a newer shocker? take a look inside one and you can get an idea of how simple you can make an integrated bolt/cylinder design.

I've pretty much got my design hashed out, I'm getting new machines soon and I'm not going to start building the proto-type until I get them.

like I said, the cylinder around the bolt is the same idea used in a matrix (also the newer shockers) that's what the plan is, only single acting.

I've done alot of research to come up with a design that I think will work really well and be much more efficient than the automag is now. it "should" be able to operate with around 250-260 psi when all is said and done.

one step at a time. first, I'm going to make the cylinder design, test it, then work on the bolt design and test it.

Oh I am so Mad at you... Joking...

Thats cool, it was just One of a Million ideas that poped into my head... I do want to see your setup work and you have spent alot more time on it than what I spent drawing concepts...

[the electrician]

if you are serious about making a design like this, keep researching, and do some testing.
you very well could come up with something that is just as good, or better than my design. different minds can come up with different solutions to the same problem. you could come up with something that would have a different set of advantages and disadvantages.

the main thing is to research the existing design, and then research and test your new design ideas.

[SlartyBartFast]

Neat concept Magman. But it seems a little complicated to me and I think there would be far more negatives than positives.

I always thought an arangement that placed the "ram" at the back of the bolt would be best. Something lke all the spool valve designs, but using HP air to pull the bolt back.

Figure you could enlarge the LVL10 bolt shaft proportionally so that thread the forces on the bolt would be the same as currently. Then, the on/off would alternate between allowing pressure to be applied to the dump chamber/ram and the back of the bolt. (it would also have to balance the pressure on both sides of the dump chamber/ram during the firing cycle.

Back to the original design using an under mounted ram, with a ram sized correctly, using the exact current bolt and dump chamber, couldn't it be operated by:
Trigger released: HP air directed to the ram and dump chamber to bring back the bolt and charge the chamber.
Trigger pulled: HP air supply cut-off and both sides of the ram connected.

[UTDragun]

This is an interesting thread, what ever happend to E's progress?

[noahyay]

he is still working on it i believe, check out the pnumatic trigger thread, he mentioned working on it

[UTDragun]

which thread?

[the electrician]

I'll tell ya what happened, my wife had a baby!
little baby boy. he is awesome.

that's takin' up most of my time now, and rightfully so.

but I've been putting together a design for the "high efficiency, low pressure, springless mag".

it just takes time to get it right.

[UTDragun]

I'll tell ya what happened, my wife had a baby!
little baby boy. he is awesome.

that's takin' up most of my time now, and rightfully so.

but I've been putting together a design for the "high efficiency, low pressure, springless mag".

it just takes time to get it right.

[garto]

Hey Magaman I think your idea is great. Delrin bolt could be used along with a delrig sleeve for the design. One thing however, the sleeve would have to end at the bumper, it should fit just around that and the bolt would just be smaller in diameter, no biggie. You're design is freakin awesome, just integrate it into the body and you'd be set (yeah one more hose no biggie).
It looks like your body design would be even easier though because the bolt stop would be in the sleeve. Wait youd need a steel bolt stop or else the sleeves would wear out really fast, unless the sleeves were real cheap. I like your design though, if I had a milling machine and a lathe I'd help you out but i don't. If you got me measurements I could do some CAD drawings though. Let me know.

Chris

[ICP]

I'll tell ya what happened, my wife had a baby!
little baby boy. he is awesome.

that's takin' up most of my time now, and rightfully so.

but I've been putting together a design for the "high efficiency, low pressure, springless mag".

it just takes time to get it right.

Little late but CONGRATS I always enjoy reading your threads. Really gets the wheels a turnin.

[ultralight]

i don't feel like rooting around for the link but somewhere on Ao theres an animation of the inner workings of an ion... it is very very close to what you guys are discussing.

basically, in an ion, the bolt is the on/off as well as the bolt. once the pressure in front of the bolt is released then the bolt moves forward firing the ball and sealing the dump chamber. after firing, the chamber fore of the bolt is pressurized, moving the bolt rearward.

i think...

[93civiccpe]

This is a really good idea and I like the upsides of this design. Definite advantages to it. My only concern for you would be to make it as efficient as possible. Because now you will be using more air per shot instead of just going with a spring to get the job done. I do belive with a pressurized system y ou can achieve a higher rate of fire than a stock spring, so I'm interested in how this is gonna turn out.

[SlartyBartFast]

Because now you will be using more air per shot instead of just going with a spring to get the job done.

Ahh. But that isn't necessarily true. The Spring isn't DOING work. It's STORING energy.

One way or another the energy to cycle the bolt comes from air pressure.