Woman killed by paintball marker tank

[Rope a Dope]

http://fox40.trb.com/news/ktxl-02160...ll=ktxl-news-1

PLACERVILLE -- A woman was killed Monday when she was struck in the head with a cartridge from a paintball gun, according to the El Dorado County Sheriff's Dept.

The freak accident happened in the area of Mosquito Road in El Dorado County. Sheriff's Dept. officials tell FOX40 News someone was using a paintball gun and the cartirdge on the back of the gun somehow malfunctioned. It popped off the gun and became a projectile, flying through the air and striking a woman who was walking nearby. She was hit in the head and died.

There's no word yet on any potential charges against the person using the paintball gun.

This is pretty close to where I am located. No more info yet.. don't know if it was HPA or CO2.

[shartley]

I would like to know more about this….

The use of the word “cartridge” brings doubt to my mind since the ONLY thing (even to someone who knows NOTHING about paintball) that looks like a cartridge would be a 12gram. Everything else looks like a bottle or a tank.

And I doubt ANY charges would be filed over a freak accident of this type… not even manslaughter.

To say this is simply bad reporting would be putting it mildly. Do reporters actually RESEARCH what they write any more, or do they just want to fill space?

[11_Mile_TMaster]

Probably a 12 gram. those things are frikking evil when they're flying through the air.

And shartley, here's some food for thought.

No news is good news?
or good news is no news?

Basically, Sensationalist reporting is what the media feels the public craves. Unless there is a scandal, a scapegoat, or SOMETHING for people to get angry about, it's not a story.

[Kevmaster]

i see a lawsuit against crossman and brass eagle coming...

[Quickling]

Or a banning of 12gram powered markers.

Already I have been asked not to use them indoors so that no one trips/slides on a spent cartridge.

[Spaceman613]

why dont we wait and see some details before naming companies?

cartridge could mean a consdtant air tank. Reporters dont use the same terminology as we do. I can think of a few different ways to make tanks (all sizes) to become projectiles.

I also would find it hard to believe that a 12 gram would be enough mass to cause a fatal head wound (but anything is possible).


And to finish it off, I heard this SAME story months ago. it was on pbnation almost verbatim probably 3 or 4 months ago.

[Rope a Dope]

Heres a thread from a local paintball message board:

http://www.sacpaintball.com/cgi-bin/...989775&start=0

[dansim]

just a quick warning about the language in the link above

[shartley]

After reading that thread, it looks to be USER ERROR, not a tank defect. But I will hold off until I know the facts.

How many people die because of user error while driving their cars?

This is indeed unfortunate, but I am sure we can find freak accidents for just about any equipment, or object.

[845]

IT sounds like the bottle got unscrewed from the reg and the bottle shot out. Damn and I just had aproblem with my nitroduck tank unscrewing from the reg when I tried to remove it from my intimidator.

[*captain_cox*37]

Originally posted by shartley
To say this is simply bad reporting would be putting it mildly. Do reporters actually RESEARCH what they write any more, or do they just want to fill space?

Yeah especially Fox. They are notorious for not making good reports and there "Facts" being total bs.

Anything can happen at anytime. I mean a couple years back this lady was actually decapitated by a flying pig. It was some car accident and the pig flew off the back of a truck and into her front windshield. True story, happened in my hometown and new the lady it happened too. But yeah I could actually see a lawsuit over this. If a person can make money they will usually do it by any means possible.

[GT]

Originally posted by shartley
How many people die because of user error while driving their cars?

Difference is society believes that bieng mobile is more important than the level of risk taken while driving..

[shartley]

Originally posted by gtrsi


Difference is society believes that bieng mobile is more important than the level of risk taken while driving..

Only because society in general has not realized how important paintball is.

[845]

Originally posted by shartley

Only because society in general has not realized how important paintball is.

Yeah it definately is. It even keeps kids off drugs.





Original Thread: http://pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=417038

[Siress]

I think it was probably a cheap blowback from wally world that someone was stretching the spring on and the plastic velocity adjuster snapped, propelling out of the marker by the air and spring, and unfortunately hitting the woman in a sensitive area.

We can't give the media any credit for knowing what a cartridge is. If the striker came out they would have called it a bullet.

Maybe now there will be more quality controle on the wal-mart markers. Personaly, I would like to never see another talon or balde in my life. I say that only Model 98's and A SINGLE TYPE of decent blow back, and when PGP's come back sell them in wal-mart too.

[Renegade_Azzy]

Anyone else think it was one of those disposable 4 oz things? Iff you got your basic blowback, it starts burping, so you take the tank off. That small tank, still has 600 or so PSI of CO2 in it, and that I can see could kill someone.

[mbyankee10]

the tank was unscrewed from the reg or one of those 4 oz diposible tanks. Doubt it was a twelve gram i have made co2 cars in college the only burst for like 2 seconds not enough force there.

Who ever said they are going to ban 12 grams paintball guns come on grow up and think before you talk. they havent banned cars yet and they kill alot more people.

[deathstalker]

Originally posted by Siress
I think it was probably a cheap blowback from wally world that someone was stretching the spring on and the plastic velocity adjuster snapped, propelling out of the marker by the air and spring, and unfortunately hitting the woman in a sensitive area.

Maybe now there will be more quality controle on the wal-mart markers. Personaly, I would like to never see another talon or balde in my life. I say that only Model 98's and A SINGLE TYPE of decent blow back, and when PGP's come back sell them in wal-mart too.

Why don't you wait until you know the facts before you start making claims about a RETAILER'S practice of selling a MANUFACTURER'S products. Then wait until you know all the facts about what happened, and see if you can logically link the two.

Your standard blowback's velocity adjuster has spring tension on it, not air pressure. Good luck trying to make one fly out the back of a marker with enough force that someone would die from being struck by it.

I dare you to find one instance in which any level of quality control was determined to be the cause of someone's death. I then double-dare you to find Wal-Mart (or ANY other retailer) to be at fault.

The SAME markers found in Wal-Mart can be purchased at your local shop. PROVE to me that buying at one location has any bearing on the quality of the product you receive.

Stop making the asinine claims that mass retailers, and manufacturers who sell their products there, are the cause of any problems simply because they co-exist.

[Siress]

I'm not one to spend my day posting on forums so I will simplize this for you. Get a reality check, take an economics course, re-read my post, and stay away from the caffeine.

Do you own a wal-mart or something!? I use them for the stereotype! GROW UP!

Now walk away from the topic you stated and tell yourself you were right, I was wrong. Go show all your buddies, e-mail it to your family pet, get your jollies and go away.

*ddiiilet
done

[Quickling]

Who ever said they are going to ban 12 grams paintball guns come on grow up and think before you talk. they havent banned cars yet and they kill alot more people.

Perhaps you should read before you talk. As I continued in my post, I noted that a local field had banned them already for reasons noted... mostly due to already high insurance costs, and the field not wanting ANY incidents... and they felt they saw a possible accident waiting to happen with 12grams.

I was merely hoping it was not a 12gram *which I do not see how it is possible* because I did not want more people to follow my local field.

[Brophog]

If I were to purely speculate based on the information provided, I'd say this may have been a blade, or similiar marker.

Why? They use a single 12 gram in the back of the marker, right behind the valve, at head level. Secondly, they have a very cheap plastic retaining "bucket" with only a couple of course threads.

I could definitely see that bucket flying off and/or shattering, thereby ejecting the 12 gram cartridge back at you.

Its the most logical option. Most tanks are not only threaded onto the ASA, but the valves are generally threaded and loctited onto the cylinder. Its certainly possible one could come flying off, but not as likely.

Most other markers that accept 12 grams will use some kind of metal bucket changer or dropout of some kind. Not as easy to come undone, plus you'd have the weight of the bucket to potentially deal with, thereby lessening the effective energy of the spent 12 gram.

Just a hunch. There really isn't a lot of data to assume much of anything.

P.S. If you've ever tried one, Blades are kinda fun. If they're effective velocity was over 200 fps, they really wouldnt be that bad of markers, for what you pay.

[f3rr3+]

about a month ago a guy i know was filling a armagedon air system and the tank ruptured and swung around in a big semi circle and left a big a... bottom... hole in the wall... compressed anything is some scary sh... stuff.


**this is just my interpretation of a 2nd hand account, if anyone more directly involved wants to fill any holes, or misconceptions go right ahead**

[Eatem Alive]

It was a 20oz co2 tank. I watched the news report and one of the law enforcement officers demonstrated what the kid reported he was doing, just unscrewing the tank from the a.s.a. attached to the bottom of the grip. they really didn't say exactly what happened except that the tank shot off like a rocket and hit the kid's mother in the head. to me it sounded like the tank unscrewed from the valve which possibly had the safety hole (if it had one) clogged with something. On a sad note it was the kid's birthday who was unscrewing the tank and who's mother was killed. that's one cool mom who would do a paintball birthday for her son and actually stay for it.

[Brophog]

Definitely something fishy with that setup. We have pin valves and ASA relief holes just to stop that sort of thing from happening.

Thanks for the information. We can stop hypothesizing now!

[Abermose]

You can watch a video report where they show the gun and the tank and everything here:
http://www.thekcrachannel.com/news/2854345/detail.html

[Skoad]

to me it looked like he unscrewed the tank from the reg.

[cledford]

I saw this on the 10pm FOX news last night - IT IS FOR REAL. They showed the field, the marker, the bottle, and had video footage of the marker sitting on the trunk of a car in 2 separate parts -gun with asa and pin valve connected and c02 bottle.

It appears to have been a green annoed blow-back style, K-mart special. I couldn't tell the actual manufacturer - but then again they all look the same to me.

Anyhow, they showed the setup and the pin valve (and anti-siphon tube) was still screwed into the bottom line ASA. I bet bottom dollar that what happened what that who ever assembled the bottle (either the manufacture or a store that "upgraded" it to anti-siphon) did not use loc-tite for threads. The kid was probably unscrewing the bottle to get it filled and instead of the pin valve unscrewing from the ASA, it unscrewed from the bottle.

This is going to have HUGE implications for the sport. The safety level for the power source for our markers (C02 bad, HPA worse) is VERY poor. It was only a matter of time before mass produced systems, made in 3rd world nations, or some 13 y/o working at a store killed or got killed by HPA.

I can't imagine the impact this is going to have - paintball might even be shut down over night. I know it is alarmist - but think about it. Virtually EVERY field is insured by the SAME company (I've heard several times there is only one that will provide the coverage). *IF* that is true, as soon as they determine what caused the issue, and realize that it could be lurking on ANY NUMBER of systems out there, they could temporarily pull the "coverage plug" - any field owner with any sense would CEASE business until it all got worked out.

This looks REAL bad.

-Calvin

[Dryden]

OK, I've heard conflicting advice regarding Loc-Tite on the reg/valve. Should you or should you not use it? The argument for is that it holds the two together, the argument against is that it will seal the bleed-off hole in the reg that will vent air if the two begin to come apart.

Second, wouldn't the pressure in the tank be enough to hold the bottle and reg together alone?

You would either have to apply a tremendous amount of force to unscrew a pressurized bottle from the reg, or have a bottle that has severely damaged threads.

RE: the reports of the accident; is there any information yet regarding the date and manufacture of the tank? I don't want to forward speculation regarding the general safety procedures that were or were not followed at this field (there's plenty of that commentary in the linked thread above), but I've read in one report that the equipment was rental, in another that it was not. Whose tank was it, and was it DOT approved and in hydro?

I could easily imagine a recreational field owner not having tanks hydroed every 3 or 5 years. Many field owners (like players) have no clue it's even required.

[FutureMagOwner]

just a thought but why dont they have the tank reg and bottle threading the other way around (i forget the name of it) so when you unscrew the bottle from the gun it would only get tighter not the other way around? (and of course make sure that you cant strip the threads also)

this is why i was thinking of picking up an adjustable tank since the risk of doing such a thing gets much lower

[The-Z-Man]

From the looks of the gun and the tank it seemed as if the tank should just screw right into the gun. But why is there a copper tube comming from the gun?