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Thread: Woman killed by paintball marker tank

  1. #31
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    anti syphon tube i do believe it is.

  2. #32
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    While this is unfortunate Calvin, I don't forsee this as being the death of our sport.

    People didn't stop buying SUV's and Firestone tires when people started dying (rollovers, crap tires, etc.), nor were either banned. I agree that quality in marker tanks is very important, and after this hopefully manufacturers will get the hint that they need to increase their safety.

    Like I said, unfortunate as it may be, paintball will live on.

    SMOKE...HE'S COMING FOR YOU....

  3. #33
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    specs

    Kinda like a thread a while back about torque specs on regs and tanks
    What I heard is "it dont matter just tighten as tight as you can with wrench" the pressure will keep the tank from unscrewing from the reg.[ya right]

    An uneducated uninformed consumer is a companies best friend.
    An uneducated uninformed player is the games worst nightmare.


    just a thought but why dont they have the tank reg and bottle threading the other way around
    Reverse thread what a concept

  4. #34
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    Unhappy

    very tragic... I'm sad and I feel sorry for the kid and his family. R.I.P.


  5. #35
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    I dont see any remnants of loctite on that at all :|

  6. #36
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    Glenn Palmer over at POG writes:

    Originally posted by GP@PPS


    Just as a point of information...

    DOT specs do not require "loktite".

    Torque spec is 50 ft pounds dry or 35 ft pounds of torque with thread locker sealant.

    My guess is that someone did the anti-siphon and scewed the valve into the tank only hand tight.


  7. #37
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    I saw a news report and the bottle was sitting in the table with very clean threads. You could see how the bottle had been unscrewed from the pin valve assembly. It is unfortunate that this had to happen.

    R

  8. #38
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    Originally posted by Jack & Coke
    Glenn Palmer over at POG writes:

    Interesting.

    Well I installed an anti-syphon on my bottle the other week, I used Blue 252 on it and wrenched the valve back on. People need to use their brain.

  9. #39
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    from: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4297031




    ...An El Dorado County mother throwing a birthday party for her son and a friend has been killed by a malfunctioning paintball gun, according to authorities.


    Investigators said a 16-year-old began disassembling his paintball gun at the paintball complex north of Placerville as Monday's birthday party was wrapping up. In an instant, the brass safety fitting that secures the high-pressure air canister to the gun malfunctioned, shooting the air canister toward Colette Controis, according to investigators.

    "When it was launched, it was like a torpedo. And it struck the woman in the back of the head as she stood about 8 feet away. She died instantly," said El Dorado County Sheriff's Department spokesman Lt. Kevin House.

    Controis' death was witnessed by over 30 children and parents.


    The owner of the Placerville paintball store affiliated with the paintball complex said he had never heard of such a malfunction ever happening before. And he said the malfunctioning canister did not come from his store.

    El Dorado County Sheriff's investigators are calling the death a clear accident, and no criminal conduct is suspected from anyone involved...

  10. #40
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    Well.... You guys are missing somethign else. Pin valves are supposed to be foolproof. They have a vent in them. About 1/4 to 1/3 the way down the threads. So that there's suddenly a 1/16" hole int he tank when you try to unscrew it. The tank should have vented almost imediately. I dont' see evidance of that hole. Without that hole, stuff like this can happen.

    I think it's time to sue the valve manufacturer.
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  11. #41
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    BTW, this is not the first time someone has been hit by a CO2 bottle being unscrewed from the pin valve. The other time (that I know of) it "only" removed the bottom jaw of the person standing behind the bottle. At the very next tournament EVERYONE had to have their bottles loctited before they were allowed to use them.

    Now, this is a MUCH bigger deal. Someone died. However, unscrewing of a bottle has happened before.


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  12. #42
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    Originally posted by nerobro
    Well....They have a vent in them. About 1/4 to 1/3 the way down the threads. So that there's suddenly a 1/16" hole in the tank when you try to unscrew it.
    I have some old pin valves that do not have the hole. I'm assuming they added those after the first accident. I wonder if that hole is a requirement?

  13. #43
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    Originally posted by Dryden
    Second, wouldn't the pressure in the tank be enough to hold the bottle and reg together alone?

    You would either have to apply a tremendous amount of force to unscrew a pressurized bottle from the reg, or have a bottle that has severely damaged threads.
    Since it's a CO2 bottle, the pressure in the bottle is the same as the pressure in the gun - what holds it on is the type of threads and how much it is torqued on.

    Tom

  14. #44
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    Originally posted by hitech
    I have some old pin valves that do not have the hole. I'm assuming they added those after the first accident. I wonder if that hole is a requirement?
    Yes. I've got 7oz tanks going back 15 years that don't have the blow-off hole in them. The problem though is that this has been pretty standard for about 6 or 7 years now (the other accident mentioned occured 10 years ago). Which means, if the valve didn't have this fail safe, it should not have been in service, since the serviceable life had passed by DOT guidelines.

    I think the field owner could be in for a battle if it's found that he filled a faulty, outdated tank.

    The problem here, I think, isn't an issue with paintball at all - I don't think the game is in ANY danger by this one tragic occurance. The problem lies in the lack of a DOT regulation that allows consumers to purchase and install aftermarket valves and regulators themselves.

    This is something that should only be done by qualified persons.

    I think a solution could be to have a specific type of tamper-proof tape that is affixed across the seam after assembly. The tape could have something to the effect of

    "Warning: if this label is torn or removed ... yada yada yada"

    The real issue here is the lack of information available to new players. A warning label wouldn't solve the problem (God knows we don't need any more warning labels either), but clearly new players need some avenue for education.

  15. #45
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    Re: specs

    Originally posted by Beemer
    Reverse thread what a concept

    just curious because its hard to tell are you being condecending/sarcastic to that or saying thats a good idea, yatta yatta

    yeah while stuff like this is rare it is definantly preventable. simple education can prevent this kinda accident, it'd be nice if when stores sell tanks and guns they explain the dangers seriously and how to identify them and and seriously and heavily note stuff like this at your local fields and such (like when you give the orientation speech would be a good time, maybe even tell people to have more experience players do that kinda stuff for them since it only takes like 2 seconds to unscrew a tank)

  16. #46
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    I do know of a story from the "early days" of C/A use of a kid getting his jaw shattered in a similar incident. a 7 ounce tank unscrewed from the valve, shot out of the player's hand, and hit his friend in the jaw.

    No new news here, unfortunately. This is why you gotta be CAREFUL when you unscrew your tanks. I've seen CO2 tanks START to unscrew from the valve. Only thing you can do at the field is stop, then get out the wrench. to unscrew it by the valve. Players tend to forget how dangerous our equipment really is.

    -Tyger


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  17. #47
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    I got sick and tired of every message board I go to and read about this story filled with "the hole on the ASA wouldn't prevent this" or people simply having no idea about the bleed holes on valves. So here is a picture of it:



    Hopefully you'll understand now.

    No the tank didn't need loctite, it needed to be torqued on at the proper foot pound spec to start with, and it may or may not of had a bleed hole on the threads which would have prevented what had happened.

    It could be possible that the fitting for the anti-siphon tube plugged the hole from the inside or it could not have had one. Although I have taken A LOT of tanks apart at the shop I use to work at and they ALL had this hole on the valve, new and old.

  18. #48
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    I agree with Rope A Dope on this one.

    One need not be a rocket scientist to properly assemble valve/tank combo, just enough common sense realize that you must respect the power contained inside there (gonna be ~800 psi inside the tank when you use it).

    That said, there does NOT need to be a law governing how you assemble a damned CO2 tank.

    For cying out loud people, why bother living your life if you need a situation by situation run down of what to do and what not to do, provided by the government.

    Now don't get me wrong, no little kid deserves to watch his mom get killed, nor did the mom deserve to be killed, but I can guarantee you that more laws are not the answer.

    If you want to enact a law (not that we need any more mind you), make it mandatory for every person to understand how something functions, before they can use it/buy it. That would stop so many stupid fatalities in every walk of life.
    Ryan Shanks
    Logic Paintball

  19. #49
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    I saw the report, and talked to an officer later on who told me he was there. he plays paintball, and he believes that it the problem was from the anti siphon not being put on right. like everyone has said previously, it most likely needed to be locktighted, and wasn't.

  20. #50
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    Did you not see the picture above? Did you not read the post on another forum where Glenn Palmer stated that DOT does not recommend loctite?

    A Co2 tank should NOT blast off if it is un-screwed from the valve, that what the hole on the threads is for.

    Now for the tank un-screwing in the first place, the valve should have been torqued on to spec, not loctited. Every brand new tank that I have anti-siphoned did NOT have any loctite on the threads, it was however, torqued on to spec.

    Next person that mentions loctite I'm gonna find them and loctite their *** cheeks together!

  21. #51
    Originally posted by Siress
    ...I will simplize this for you....take an economics course...
    Uhhhh, why would you randomly tell him to take an economics course?
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  22. #52
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    coolhand i dont think anyone here was suggesting making a law (that wouldnt make sense anyway in this situation) i think they should make sure that people respect what they are using before they buy it but things being such that probably wont happen

  23. #53
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    does anyone know, was the woman there playing paintball, or did she just happen to be walking nearby ?
    <<90 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot>>

  24. #54
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    Originally posted by nerobro
    I think it's time to sue the valve manufacturer.
    or whoever installed the anti-siphon
    Proud Member Of The AO Cesspool Since 08-24-2002

  25. #55
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    www.pbstar.com they got it there fullcovereage . and people learn form this co2 sucks and watch your reg when unscrewing you tank i dont know ow many times my co2 tank screwedoff and not the reg last year.



    *edit* WOOPS i didnt see the pics nor read
    Last edited by NoFearPaintballer; 02-19-2004 at 09:59 PM.

  26. #56
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    I have seen the hole in the valve a ways down the threads. If the dip tube is improperly installed (screwed in to far) it can cover the hole. Whether it is reccommended or not. Most shops put on some kind of sealant and I think it is a good idea!

    Riooso

  27. #57
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    Good Idea

    very tragic... I'm sad and I feel sorry for the kid and his family. R.I.P.
    Me too

    just curious because its hard to tell are you being condecending/sarcastic to that or saying thats a good idea
    Sorry, as in good idea.

    Pin valves are supposed to be foolproof.
    Not after a faulty mod. Can you say reverse thread?

    The real issue here is the lack of information available to new players
    Every brand new tank that I have anti-siphoned did NOT have any loctite on the threads, it was however, torqued on to spec.
    No the tank didn't need loctite, it needed to be torqued on at the proper foot pound spec to start with,
    (God knows we don't need any more warning labels either), but clearly new players need some avenue for education.

    Originally posted by Mindflux


    Interesting.

    Well I installed an anti-syphon on my bottle the other week, I used Blue 252 on it and wrenched the valve back on. People need to use their brain.
    And was this wrench a torque wrench of some type?????, and if not you know it was torqued to spec HOW?

    Players tend to forget how dangerous our equipment really is.
    i dont know ow many times my co2 tank screwedoff and not the reg last year.
    And since you are informed and educated you have this fixed so it will not happen any more?

  28. #58
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    The sad truth is this was easily a preventable accident simply by educating the owner of the marker to the potential problems his equipment may have and the owner paying close attention to what they were doing during disassembly.

    Many of us have seen our tanks unscrew from the regs, but we usually go "hey, that isn't supposed to do that" and do the smart thing and screw it back on before something detrimental happens.

    Odds are the teen involved was chatting with his friends when he was removing the bottle and simply wasn't paying attention.

    -Evil Bob

  29. #59
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    did i mentioned she got it good in the face?
    Last edited by Crazy; 02-23-2004 at 01:16 PM.
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  30. #60
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    The first guy to get hit in the head with an unscrewed tank loaned his gun to his friend who unscrewed it off the reg while the two were walking down the road. The guy got blashed by his own gun.

    Lock tight IS NOT suposed to be used on tank threads, they are suposed to be TORQUED on with a special strap wrench. If you take a reg off and put it back on expect to get sued if it hurts someone.

    No other industry in the world uses inline threads the way we do because of this very problem. They all use some form of 90 degree fitting. Why we do I will not get into because I have vented enough in other threads today.

    The vent hole in the tank threads is a paintball industry inovation not found elsewhere. There is no standard on it so people just drill them where ever. Some were drilled too close to the oring and caused a weak spot and the valve would just break off. Do you have one of those?

    Mounting the valve on a gun which is basically a two foot long lever and then diving into a bunker is an overall bad idea. Only ONE regulator on the market has a fail safe shut off if the reg breaks off. Three letters, starts with A, you can guess the rest.

    AGD

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