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Thread: finally finished my homemade e-mag conversion...

  1. #31
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    spleefstylez- the ram is a modified valve actuator. clippard part# MPA-3

    the manifold I handmade to conform to the actuator and the valve.

    rkjunior303-
    the magnet in the trigger does not operate the solenoid valve. it just takes the place of a trigger return spring.
    a micro switch triggers the morlock to energize the solenoid valve.
    ~E~

  2. #32
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    ha i was way off.. either way, its a cool design awesome marker man!

  3. #33
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    So is the morlock board that other board for the e-mag?

    Do you think a WAS board would work for this?

    I can imagine it now baby.. A WAS'd mag.. I might be ordering an intelliframe now and doing this now.. Thanks alot!! :P..

    No but really, this is the sweetest thing i've ever seen, probablly because it's exactly what I want to do, but I would never now how to come out about it..

    I still don't 100% understand how it works though.. Does the air somehow push the sear, or is it directly connected to the valve in some way??

  4. #34

    nice work!

    Gotta repeat what everyone else has been saying, great job on putting the entire assembly together. Looks really professional.

    I'm itching to do the same to my mag, so would you mind if I ask a few (possibly dumb) questions?
    1. How is the actuator set up? I'm assuming you picked it because most rams are a bit too long, but the clippard part is just a hollow tube with a threaded opening.
    2. Also, I've researched minivalves before, and the lowest voltage ones usually required 12 volts. Is yours the same? How are you bumping up the voltage?

    Digits: I think this is how it works.. The air goes from the rock reg to the 3-way valve, which either shuts off the flow of air or diverts it to the actuator. The actuator acts like a ram and trips the sear. Nothing is connected to the valve. Of course I could be completely wrong, that's just what I gathered from the pic.

  5. #35
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    So the sear is tripped basically by something like a solenoid in a sear tripper (The piece that goes, click, click, click)..

    Or does something else trip the sear..

  6. #36
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    thanks again, I'm glad to see people are interested in performance mods. thank you for the nice compliments.

    dudedude- professional looking? damn... thanks man! but really it could have definitely been prettier, but most of the time I'm concerned with performance and reliability, then looks are last on the list. actually punisher makes the best looking magmods, and the best looking mods ingeneral. but hey once again, thank you very much.

    okay, down to business-

    an air pilot valve actuator is the same basic thing as a ram. this particular model is used to actuate a mechanical pushbutton valve by attaching it to the end. the small plunger inside pushes the valves push button when air is applied to the actuator.

    Now for use in this mod, it has to be modified itself. first off, a steel piston was made to push the sear.careful consideration must be made so there is no binding of the supplied delrin plunger in the actuator. the MPA-3 is also shortened as much as possible(shave off the valve mounting threads on the lathe). it is taken down to the internal snap ring. I use the MPA-3 because I am not ready to attempt making my own rams, like punisher does. I'm not that good of a machinist. it is an easy way to get a short 3/8" bore cylinder(ram, actuator...samething) with a simple available spring return, and easyily adapted to this project.

    you've researched minivalves? good! excellent! too many people want everything just given to them and they don't want to do any research. I use a special order 6volt model.
    it might be possible to use a 12 volt model, MAYBE IF you are using a rechargeable 9.6 volt battery, charging it up to around 10.8 volts, but room inside the grip is limited, so you can't use a very large firing cap to help keep the voltage high on the battery. you might get it to work just fine, you would only be using 97 milliamps or so, per shot.
    OR it might not have the power to move the valve poppet open peoperly, and this could hurt flow, and you might have to increase energize time to make up for it, which inturn, could slow down the cycle rate a little POSSIBLY. remember, this is all hypothetical until you try it and see what happens.

    with a 6 volt model, it draws more than twice the current(352 milliamps at 9.8 volts) but it's reaction time is less than 2 msecs and it will shift the poppet with authority, no matter what the input psi. not to mention it will operate even when the battery is drained down past 8 volts. this to me seemed to be the more reliable route to go, and I imagine it will get 40,000 shots per charge(I don't know, I haven't had to charge the battery yet.)

    either way contact the manufacturer/distributor of the valve you want to use and ask them about optional voltages.

    I've thought about ordering a batch of these valves if enough people are interested.maybe.

    Digits- the morlock is a circuit board designed to run any electro gun. it is the smallest, probably the best, most versatile board that could be used for this mod.

    http://exarin.com/

    there is the link to there website. it is truly a great product.

    here's how the mod works:
    air from the tank is going into the palmer rock reg that is installed on the front of the vert asa. it regulates it down to about 80 psi and sends it inside the grip to the solenooid valve. when the trigger is pulled, it activates a micro switch which tells the morlock board to energize the solenoid of the solenoid valve, for a certain amount of programmable time. the solenoid opens the valve, which lets air flow through the mini-manifold and into the brass actuator. the actuator has a steel piston which pushes on the sear, where the trigger rod would have normally been connected. this fire the gun. this design enables a large amount of force to be available in a quick amount of time, so as to be able to fire the gun reliably and in a much smaller package than the AGD e-mag. (no offense guys, the e-mag is much cooler looking than my gun)

    make sense?

  7. #37
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    Originally posted by the electrician
    thanks again, I'm glad to see people are interested in performance mods. thank you for the nice compliments.

    dudedude- professional looking? damn... thanks man! but really it could have definitely been prettier, but most of the time I'm concerned with performance and reliability, then looks are last on the list. actually punisher makes the best looking magmods, and the best looking mods ingeneral. but hey once again, thank you very much.

    okay, down to business-

    an air pilot valve actuator is the same basic thing as a ram. this particular model is used to actuate a mechanical pushbutton valve by attaching it to the end. the small plunger inside pushes the valves push button when air is applied to the actuator.

    Now for use in this mod, it has to be modified itself. first off, a steel piston was made to push the sear.careful consideration must be made so there is no binding of the supplied delrin plunger in the actuator. the MPA-3 is also shortened as much as possible(shave off the valve mounting threads on the lathe). it is taken down to the internal snap ring. I use the MPA-3 because I am not ready to attempt making my own rams, like punisher does. I'm not that good of a machinist. it is an easy way to get a short 3/8" bore cylinder(ram, actuator...samething) with a simple available spring return, and easyily adapted to this project.

    you've researched minivalves? good! excellent! too many people want everything just given to them and they don't want to do any research. I use a special order 6volt model.
    it might be possible to use a 12 volt model, MAYBE IF you are using a rechargeable 9.6 volt battery, charging it up to around 10.8 volts, but room inside the grip is limited, so you can't use a very large firing cap to help keep the voltage high on the battery. you might get it to work just fine, you would only be using 97 milliamps or so, per shot.
    OR it might not have the power to move the valve poppet open peoperly, and this could hurt flow, and you might have to increase energize time to make up for it, which inturn, could slow down the cycle rate a little POSSIBLY. remember, this is all hypothetical until you try it and see what happens.

    with a 6 volt model, it draws more than twice the current(352 milliamps at 9.8 volts) but it's reaction time is less than 2 msecs and it will shift the poppet with authority, no matter what the input psi. not to mention it will operate even when the battery is drained down past 8 volts. this to me seemed to be the more reliable route to go, and I imagine it will get 40,000 shots per charge(I don't know, I haven't had to charge the battery yet.)

    either way contact the manufacturer/distributor of the valve you want to use and ask them about optional voltages.

    I've thought about ordering a batch of these valves if enough people are interested.maybe.

    Digits- the morlock is a circuit board designed to run any electro gun. it is the smallest, probably the best, most versatile board that could be used for this mod.

    http://exarin.com/

    there is the link to there website. it is truly a great product.

    here's how the mod works:
    air from the tank is going into the palmer rock reg that is installed on the front of the vert asa. it regulates it down to about 80 psi and sends it inside the grip to the solenooid valve. when the trigger is pulled, it activates a micro switch which tells the morlock board to energize the solenoid of the solenoid valve, for a certain amount of programmable time. the solenoid opens the valve, which lets air flow through the mini-manifold and into the brass actuator. the actuator has a steel piston which pushes on the sear, where the trigger rod would have normally been connected. this fire the gun. this design enables a large amount of force to be available in a quick amount of time, so as to be able to fire the gun reliably and in a much smaller package than the AGD e-mag. (no offense guys, the e-mag is much cooler looking than my gun)

    make sense?
    The explanation was great, I understand it alot better now.. But when I was reading the first part you lost me on partical lol..

    So.. This Morlock board.. Do you have to solder thing on for say the battery holder.. And stuff like that.. Or are there slots to just slip them in..

  8. #38
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    Digits go here for a better pick of the morlock
    http://www.docsmachine.com/gear/morlock.html
    And yes you have to solder every thing
    1st custom LogicMag, MiniMag , PGP2K , SplatMaster
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  9. #39
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    It looks hard as hell to program lol..

    As soon as my brother gets his WAS board i'm going to look into that and see how the programming is on it..

  10. #40
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    Thumbs up

    ...next step...

    eyes!

    awesome stuff electrician!

  11. #41
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    This wouldn't conflict with the SP pentent would it? You could sell the idea to TK and then be anohter paintball god.
    click here for feedback
    Fear the Ninja

  12. #42
    yes it violates SP's electro patent..
    ColinMoritz

    Chord, Chord V2, Dallara, Karta, current project: (coming soon)

  13. #43
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    I seriously doubt they would want to sue me for making my own electro-gun. no money to be made there.

    that's all they are really interested in.

    I'm not interested in making them for people, and the idea is anyones for the taking. anybody can make one for all I care.

    hell,name one idea that the boys at smartparts actually came up with themselves. good luck


  14. #44
    electrician- was not meant to be directed towards you.. was just answering penguinpunk555's question/assumption..

    out!

  15. #45

    SOOO NICE!!!

    That is SERIOUSLY nice. I would love that, even more than that blazer I was thinking about. (Wheels start turning...)

  16. #46
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    Man! I looked around for months on how I could cram stuff into a frame! I went with a mac valve that seems to be working pretty well right now. Just need to do some more tweaking to my frame to get the microswitch to hit right.

    Man I need to find all those parts and start that project up again!

  17. #47
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    ShooterJM, pics!

  18. #48
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    Yeah I just have to dig all the stuff up, I just moved so it's all in boxes somewhere. Don't expect anything nearly that neat though. I ended up having to drop most of the guts into a small sidesaddle type box that sits between the drop and the frame.

    basically the electritians is WAY more refined and nicer and cooler and all that good stuff!

  19. #49
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    Nicad- It's all good brother. I was just commenting on the idea.

    bsasically i don't like what smart parts is doing, but I don't really play alot of tournaments, and I don't plan on buying a mass produced electro-gun. So it doesn't affect me in that way. I do know that I don't like any of the guns smart parts has manufactured. just not for me.

    so when are you gonna show us some pics of that integrated rail, electro-grip, e-mag design?

  20. #50
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    I'm not sure of the specifics of it but a power box transformer can generate 150,000 volts out of a 9volt battery (think taser). So could we run this thing on a watch battery, or at least a AAA?
    Originally posted by AGD
    What are some joys and struggles of your career?
    The joys are when you make it work well.
    The struggles are when they want it to be a different color

    AGD



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  21. #51
    I don't think the problem is generating the voltage, but rather balancing the power needed for the solenoid/valve against size in order to get a couple thousand shots out of a battery. Plus I don't think tasers are designed to fry someone's brains out at the nice jolly rate of 13 zaps per second (18 if you have a quick finger)

    One solution might be to use the small form factor batteries that cameras use. Those things usually come in 9-12 V varieties, and are about 2/3 as long as a AA and a little bit thicker. I don't know how many milliamps those things can put out, but it might be something worth trying if space is tight.

  22. #52
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    I don't suppose that you could remove the guts and arrange them outside of the frame so I could get a better idea of how the actuator is attached to the sear? Pretty please?
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  23. #53
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    turkey- I don't think that would work like you want it to. like I said you probably could use 12 solenoids if you use a rechargeable 9.6 batt and keep it charged up hot (in the 10 to 11v range) or you could do some research and try and et a 6 volt model. that's what I did.

    dudedude- using special batteries is one way to go, but that would get expensive, and is not very convenient at all. the simplest thing is almost always the best. 9v rechargeables are readily available,along with chargers, and you end up saving alot of money in batteries.

    spleefstylez- the actuator is not attached to the sear. it doesn't need to be.

  24. #54
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    Electrician I would like to coment on your 2end gen Emag.
    Dude your work is SWEET.It is the best mod done to a mag since PUNISHER.Don't get me wrong Punisher's work rocks,
    but you went more for preformance then cosmetic type of mod.I also like the idea on how you used a classic body for your mod ,and I must say your valve shround is sweet.

    Keep up the good work man.If you have any other mods please E-mail me .

    with these kinds of mods dude you can make a army of mags
    give me an inch..and ill take a yard...paintball is not a hobbie it's a way of life

  25. #55
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    Just a quick question.. How hard was it to program the board?

  26. #56
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    warpedside671- thanks alot. yeah punisher's stuff is beautiful, and I'm sure it performs great. my stuff is basic performance orientated mods like you said.

    the valve shroud is just a piece of aluminum tubing, cut at a 22 degree angle on the back, and a portion sliced off the bottom. just enough for a tight fit. then a slot is made for the fitting on the side. I originally made it for looks and found that it helped disipate cold off the valve back when it ran on co2, not much of a difference, but a little. glad you like it.

    Digit- you're funny. define "hard to program". my idea of hard to program and yours, might be a bit different. but really it's easy. you don't need to know hexadecimal or BCD code or anything. you're not actually going to "program it", your just setting the timers. have you seen the instructions on their website? basically it is set to a default mode. to set the timers to what you want you just hold the trigger down while you turn it on, then release the trigger. now it's in "program mode". follow the instrucions, it's all done through the trigger. single solenoid guns(open bolt guns mostly) are really quick and easy to set-up.
    once you've done it you'll see its really nothing at all.
    you'll start to memorize what order the registers are in and how to change the timers.

  27. #57
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    Originally posted by the electrician
    warpedside671- thanks alot. yeah punisher's stuff is beautiful, and I'm sure it performs great. my stuff is basic performance orientated mods like you said.

    the valve shroud is just a piece of aluminum tubing, cut at a 22 degree angle on the back, and a portion sliced off the bottom. just enough for a tight fit. then a slot is made for the fitting on the side. I originally made it for looks and found that it helped disipate cold off the valve back when it ran on co2, not much of a difference, but a little. glad you like it.

    Digit- you're funny. define "hard to program". my idea of hard to program and yours, might be a bit different. but really it's easy. you don't need to know hexadecimal or BCD code or anything. you're not actually going to "program it", your just setting the timers. have you seen the instructions on their website? basically it is set to a default mode. to set the timers to what you want you just hold the trigger down while you turn it on, then release the trigger. now it's in "program mode". follow the instrucions, it's all done through the trigger. single solenoid guns(open bolt guns mostly) are really quick and easy to set-up.
    once you've done it you'll see its really nothing at all.
    you'll start to memorize what order the registers are in and how to change the timers.
    Sounds good ..

  28. #58
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    if you ever get time to draw up directions and how you did all this...please let me know. i get the jist of what does what and how, but how to mount everything and where to buy it all is another thing. also, is that a benchmark frame? im sure milled it out quite a bit, at least thats what it looks like in the picture. anyway, to the point. if it wasnt too much trouble, could you list the parts needed for this? if you want you can PM me since we talkin through em sorta now. lmk on that.thnx

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  29. #59
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    How do you think this project would work out without the morlock board, say if the sear was actuated the whole time the trigger was pressed? It'd be simpler, but still be short strokeable?

  30. #60
    I don't know if you'll run into problems with amp draw requirements of the valve, but all you would need would be a two-state state machine with a 555 chip. You'd have a ready state to wait for the trigger pull, then a timer state using the 555 chip to activate the 3-way for the number of ms needed to prevent short stroking. Throw in an adjustable pot to set the dwell time, and you're set.

    edit:
    My mistake, you'd need 3 states: trigger press, dwell, and trigger release. If you did it with two states you'd have full auto.

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