I want one..I want one BAD...okay who's up to make one in the future?
I want one..I want one BAD...okay who's up to make one in the future?
I must say that is one awesome setup
I do have one question though. What advantage does this have over a normal e-frame that just trips the sear, instead of having the xtra pneumatics?
I say again, sweet!
you mean like the hyperframe? it uses a direct solenoid actuated sear.
well really I don't think there is any performance advantage. mine will work with any old valve, and any old on/off. it can create 11 lbs of force on the sear if it was needed. this means it would run just about any mag, completely reliable. I've heard that the hyperframe can be particular,I've shot one, but I have never owned one so I can't really say anything good or bad about them.
the reason I chose this design is because when I analyzed how much force was needed and at what length of movement, it was alot more than what I would want to ask a solenoid to do directly. it would take a larger solenoid than would fit into a plain 45 frame with standard grips.
when choosing a design, if you need a small to medium amount of force, with a short stroke, and lot's of speed, a solenoid would be a good choice to directly actuate the load.
but if you need a large amount of force with a medium stroke, or you need the same amount of force through the whole stroke, along with speed, a pneumatic actauation is a good choice. this means an air cylinder, valve actuator, or air piston controlled by a solenoid valve.
my design uses a plain old 45-frame, so any grips can be used. which I think is more comfortable. but that's just me.
it uses a morlock, so it has built in intellifeed, several firing modes and is totally programable down to the millisecond.
so really it's about preference.
doesn't really matter to me, I wouldn't buy a hyperframe. I would rather have the fun of designing and building my own frame. it is cheaper too
You wouldn't mind laying down the parts list, would u?
I think I will start making my own, except I would practice with a pneumatic only trig, then selinoid....
the morlock boards can be purchased here:
there's alot of little parts to this thing and a few I just hand made. but I can give you a few.
the actuator I used is a clippard # MPA-3 air pilot valve actuator. highly modified for this use. if you read back on the thread, you'll see I've mentioned all this before.
if you going to go just pneumatic, then you can use a clippard # SMAV-3 for a small 3-way to put behind the trigger. but if you do some research, I'm sure you could find something that has a softer actuation force, from a different manufacturer. it is about 20 oz. the SMAV-3 only needs about .5 mm to actuate so it is short.
other than that it's up to you how you set it up.
punisher of punisher's customs makes some wicked pneuma-mag set-ups. not to mention he's actually an airsmith.
I just make my own stuff because I don't really like some of the high end guns available and I don't think they are worth the money. and really, it's boring to me to just own a gun. I can't leave well enough alone
on another note:
I've been doing different mods to the on/off of the e-mag mod. I first noticed that my bps tops out at about 14 with the lvl 10. it used to be able to get 16 bps with a standard bolt, with no drop off. so I shortened the on/off pin. you can't go too short or the lvl10 won't resest properly. I shaved .031" off the pin and got it back to 16 bps, while using the lvl 10.
then I started using a modified RT on/off. modified the top of it to resemble the standard on/off top, and shaved the pin the same .031". I replaced the internal urethane o-ring with a soft buna-n o-ring. this made it so I could reduce the input into the sear actuator to half the psi. it was a minimum 80 psi, but now 40 psi will work. this means half the air consumption and it's just plain easier on the whole system. not to mention faster reaction time is available.
then I started looking at the AGD e-mag. it uses a quad o-ring on top of the on/off. so I decided to try this. looking at it. it has two seals instead of one. but you can just use the bottom one to seal the on/off. this seal surface is closer to the top of the on/off and when it opens, it opens to a larger flow area much faster than using a normal o-ring. this means the on/off in can be shortened some more. but instead I decided to use some shime on the on/off just like what is used on the ULT on/off. this let's me test length, with out permanently shortening the pin. I was able to shim the on/off .040" and it still did not make the pin seal point so low that the lvl 10 didn't reset. it worked perfectly.
as a matter of fact the the quad ring helped so much that I was able to decrease the total cycle time to .053 sec.(53msec) this is about 18.8 bps!! no drop off with a standard valve ! lot's of fun.
so if you make your own e-mag, and you use a standard valve, you would do well to grab an RT on/off and some quad rings.
could I use an RT on/off with only a standard trigger on the mag? I do not forsee me having the time to do the rest of the mod until later, just wanna see what I can do to get the trigger faster then stock, and to get it to work more gas efficiently with lvlX.
you could try, but with the standard valve, and just a mechanical trigger, you could have problems getting it to work without modifying it. it will make the trigger pull lighter, but the pin will not have as much force to return the sear all the way with your finger on the trigger. this will cause bad sear and bolt wear.
I've been trying to get it to work, but so far, it doesn't want to return properly.
just dropping in to say a video is up of the hAir trigger..
I posted a reply in the cocker/mag hybrid thread.
How exactly does an actuator work?? It looks like a plain ol tube to me..
PLEASE, for the sake of us droolers, post a parts list!
Great job man, I REALLY would liek to know what parts were involved and the difficulty of this mod.
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If you look at some of my previous posts, I describe the parts used and what I did to them.
but really, alot of it is handmade, it would take a book to explain an describe what you need to do to make the stuff.
I wouldn't reccomend it as a "beginner's project"
you would have to have some experience with a mill, a lathe, and an understanding of electronics and pneumatics.
In your e-mag version, it looks like you have a ram pushing horizontally against the sear to actuate the part the sear rod would have hit. I thought in one of your posts somewhere you mentioned having attached directly to the sear. I'm currently looking for ideas of how to attach my solenoid directly to the sear. I'm using a similar pull type 'noid to what the Emag uses except with a return spring to compensate for the decreased return of the ULT. As you suggested it can't generale enough force to pull the sear down by attaching at the same location as the current sear rod. This is probably why the Emag sear has a separate rod for the plunger. I could just use an emag sear, or fabricate a similar pull angle from my existing sear. Wondering what your take might be on this.
On a different note. Wouldn't a stabilizer work in place of the rock for your e-mag conversion since it can regulate from 0 psi up? Wondering if the project could be done with a simple vert stab in place of a foregrip, instead of having the rock sticking out the front. It seems like Nicad is using it this way on his hair frame, but I can't be sure. Not knowing how all the plumbing is routed and fitted I am only speculating.
you can hook up directly to the sear, just think about where the extra arm comes off on the e-mag sear. I use to have a ram connected to the sear, about midway on the part of the sear that catches the bolt. I drilled a hole through the sear there. it ends up being about where the extra sear arm would put you on the e-mag sear. but drilling the sear is not an easy task. you have to have patience and the proper tools to drill hardened steel.
you could buy an e-mag sear perhaps. this would give you a place to connect.
I went with the horizontal set-up because it is very compact, and you do not have to attch anything to the sear at all. much easier to deal with. everything breaks down for cleaning or repair much faster.
with a pull solenoid, you are limited to pulling the front of the sear and using up alot of space in your gip frame.
the return spring also absorbs some of the force generated by your solenoid. what ever it's pressure is, or compression in an amount of force, take that right off the top of the force available to mave the sear.
the use of a stabilizer- yes it could be done. one would have to use a "T" fitting on the stabilizer input. so that the 800 psi air supply could also be available for the gun. this leaves you a large volume of low pressure air for the function of the sear actuator (which I don't really need), but eliminates the volume of air to the main valve of the gun. I like the way my set up has no bottom line. it is an ASA directly into a gas-thru grip. the gas thru grip is basically a large volume of air, regulated and ready to go for the main valve.
you're right in thinking it would be a bit sneakier, sleeker look. my friend was setting his pneumatic-sear mag like that. but I like my set up the way it is. I already had all the parts lying around, so it was the cheapest way to go.
actually, the gun looks completely different now. it has a black ULE body, a milled rail, and a new drop and ASA. all the rest of the parts have been changed to black to match. when it's all said and done, the grip frame and rail will be anodized to match the ULE body. I'll have some pics up eventually. it looks alot better.
Well, I'm thinking about using the Emag sear instead of cutting up my good sear. It's a small piece to work on, and possibly hard to clamp down good on the press I've got, which is a large beast. The 'noid I picked up is rated to account for the return spring, and since I'm truly experimenting, trial and error will determine to some extent whether it is useful or not. I actually called and had the specific solenoid settings verified before I ordered it. I had a bad experience trying to time my old autococker, so that scared me away from the lpr, 3-way/solenoid, ram type set up.
yeah the e-mag sear would be easier if you're going to attach a ram/ solenoid directly to it. they are expensive though.
you definitely have to get a sear clamped down good to drill it. it takes a little while to get through too.
there is no timing to deal with the reg, 3-way, and ram set-up. since it's electronic, the ciruit board does the job. and after you set it up, you just change one register on the morlock, and that controls your ROF. very easy. no giant, heavy battery and it has plenty of power to move the sear.
but hey, you take your time and do it right, you could make a really cool solenoid acuated sear design.
call me stupid but i dont understand how this works
is this it or something else?
if you read my posts, i tell exactly how it works.
your kinda close, but no there's no motor, and no autococker 4-way.
"but really, alot of it is handmade, it would take a book to explain an describe what you need to do to make the stuff. "
i think everyone wants to buy books
computer art class paid off:
hey man that gun set up is super sick i give you mad props
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I've been wanting to make one out of a logic vert frame.
yep that's it, basically. the 3-way is special order, it is connected to a custom made manifold that attaches it to the bottom of the MPA-3 acuator. the actuator has been milled flat on the bottom to give it a place to seat an o-ring against the manifold.
a small stainless piston was turned from a piece of 1/4" stainless rod. this is what actually pushes on the sear from inside the mpa-3.
the trigger uses opposing magnets instead of a return spring. the magnet in the frame is adjustable so as to change the trigger pull force to the desired amount. the trigger is adjustable with a front stop and back stop set screw, along with a "point of actuation" set screw that engages the micro switch.
it is very walkable.
almost forgot, this is what it looks like now.
(sorry about the dark pics)
the rail has bveen milled for a sleeker look. it is soon to be all black.
my thread bout my trigger idea: http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=149170
edit: check out http://www.noahkool.com for animations
Last edited by noahyay; 08-20-2004 at 10:11 PM.
does that LPR (or whatever type reg is out there)need to be on there?
yes it does because the pnematics are pressure rated for 100 psi and the output of a tank is over 700psi.
the ram is a micro rock or rock reg because it can handle input pressures of 1200
rt pro w/ lvlx etc.
custom milled out y frame
empire barrel kit
custom 15 degree
custom milled rail
cut ule body
steel hose with QD's
custom welded drop
90/45 nitro duck x-stream
halo tsa w/ custom paint job
soon to get warp
custom palmer microrock front grip for future trigger for ^
what if you had an inline reg instead of a forgrip or if you had an adjustible tank?