Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 44

Thread: 4500 Flatline Update (pics)

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    5,947

    4500 Flatline Update (pics)

    All,

    Cphilip posted a desperate plea for the 4500 systems so here is an update. We were having problems with about 15% of the systems deforming the reg seat under pressure. Here is what they looked like at two extremes.



    Can you see the difference? We sure can. The fix is to modify the design to make the seat deform in a controlled way to make sure it keeps the shape we want. This takes several tries to get it right. NOW WE COULD HAVE shipped them out to YOU and had our customers test the different configurations and just update you later but that's not our style.

    We tested several different designs and think the one we tesed today will work the best. Here is a new seat next to a used seat, you can see they look almost the same size. This was only ONE test system.




    Now the question is, do we test ANOTHER batch of 20 units and see if we get failures? There are two ways to look at this, first since the failure rate was only about 15% anyways ANY improvement would most likely mean they would work acceptably, go ahead and ship a big batch to customers. The other side of the coin, since you changed the design you may not know ANYTHING about what will happen, you should start the testing from scratch to be SURE. So I ask you my loyal customers, what would YOU do if you were me? Remember Christmas is coming up.

    AGD

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    719
    Tom, I greatly appreciate your candor and thank you for putting out all this information. I, for one, would rather you continue testing, in order that you put out a product that is not only up to your standards but also will set a new standard in performance.

    I know I am one of those people who are chomping at the bit to purchase the new 4500psi Flatline, but I would rather wait than buy a product that the manufacturer is not very sure of. Do not give in to the pressure of the consumers and put out an unfinished product. Complete the testing and put out a product that will take a beating and keep on ticking. After all "Quality Always Shoots Straight."

    Last thing, actually it is more of a request. When you bring the 4500psi Flatline into full production, I was wondering if I might be able to buy the reg straight from you guys. I would love to be one of the first to own what I know will be a great product.
    Last edited by DarkPhoenix; 10-07-2001 at 03:49 AM.

    "The BEAST"
    "No-Rise" E-mag
    Level 10 Bolt
    AGD Flatline 91cu in/4500psi
    Black HALO B

    "Red Heatseeker"
    Red to Clear Fade Freak Factory Impulse
    68/4500psi Max-Flo
    Red HALO B

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    offshore
    Posts
    7,178

    Keep on tryin'

    Ditto! Get it right before you ship um. Test them REAL good. AGD is known for this type of quailty, and all who know that also knows they will be worth the wait!
    Email me for low prices on ALL AGD Products and more. tunaman5@verizon.net
    Tunamart

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    189

    I must agree...

    I've used your guns almost since I first started plaing, and have often been asked, "why go with 'a tube on a handle'"? My only answer can be "Because I know that when I screw in the bottle, that it will work." It would be very bad for you guys to release a product to the public without being 110% sure of the quality of that product.

    Thank you for doing it right,

    Three
    -E-Mag
    -WGP Sniper II


  5. #5
    I agree with everyone else. Continue testing until it works like it was intended to. Better to have the product as flawless as possible, so your workbenches don't get filled up with people needing the conversion to Flatline 4500 v2.0.

    Anyways, I thought you wanted us all to dream about dancing sugarplums and E-Mags for Christmas!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    "The SC" (South Carolina)
    Posts
    16,193
    Tom, I certainly agree with getting it right. But I was hoping we were close. If I wait a few weeks do you think it would be rectified? I guess I could see if I could borrow a tank for a bit. How did I let myself get into this situation?

    I would be willing to wait just a bit if I knew it was close. But I need a tank. Fairly soon. But my problem not yours...


    AGD, where we are so good we can do it with only ONE tube!

    cphilip.com

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Posts
    1,016
    Tom you guys are known for excellent craftmanship and I would really hate it if you guys put out a substandard product. Test the ______ out of it. When you feel that it works the way it should then release it. We can wait until after Christmas for it if we have too.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Muskegon, MI
    Posts
    563
    test test test!!!!!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    nf, canada
    Posts
    1,053
    i want one so bad for cheistmas.
    but i don't want a defected tank either.
    so keep testing and when they are ready i will buy one.
    but keep it going and save one for me.
    ----------------------------------------
    Bob Long Defiant(marble w/orange splash
    ----------------------------------------
    jt ize,88ci hyper flow,dz2,12v revy, warp feed,dye stickies,spikes 4v pack
    ----------------------------------------
    minimagpaintball@hotmail.com
    ----------------------------------------
    sponsored by: action quest paintball
    www.actionquestpaintball.ca
    ----------------------------------------
    Team "CANADIAN ECLIPSE"
    assistant captain
    Mitch Fong
    ----------------------------------------[QUOTE]Originally posted by Automag
    jacko harness w/ 3 pods(lost one in strategic combat maneuver that involved tripping down a hill)
    hahahahaahaha good stuff automag i hope you don't mind!!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Columbia TN
    Posts
    3,141
    Make sure they are the bestestest! You guys Rock!

    --ENDO!
    Oldskool

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    morrison, colorado, united states
    Posts
    54
    yeah i think you should get them working 100% before you ship them but i would devinatly buy a 4500psi flatline! thanks alot AGD!!!


    68 automag classic s/f *Blue STO 01
    16" ironman boomstick dye stickys
    12" lapco autospirt blue 12v revy
    PMI sight rail 88ci 4500 PMI
    DYE 2 finger 45 frame
    DYE sticky grips
    benchmark chrome body rail
    KAPP gas thru forgrip
    TKO drop forward
    48 ci PMI pure energy
    68 ci ACI bulldog
    ricochet 2k

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    lakeland, fl
    Posts
    21
    test test test, tom , do you do any controlled tempture testing at all?you know what i mean? like to see how some thing works at lets say 100f and 30 f or what ever.
    rt,full freak set,68 flatline,purple m 98 purple 20 oz

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    167
    A testing we shall go, a testing we sahll go, hi ho the merry o a testing we shall go...

    Test test test , as long as I can get one before June 2002.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eatontown, NJ, USA
    Posts
    198
    I'm looking for a new tank for my mag. After reading this post, I WILL wait until the 4500 Flatline is out.

    Tom, do all the testing needed.

    Fireball Autococker
    12" Dye Aluminum
    12" Freak Barrel

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Valparaiso,IN
    Posts
    347
    i will test one for you

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Northern Arizona
    Posts
    232
    Test,Test,Test. Do not release them untill you guys are 110% sure. I will just have to wait untill then.
    one case one kill

  17. #17

    Tom,

    Would it cost a lot to ship replacement Reg Seals after a shipment?

    I suspect that It'd be worth your while to ship a load of regs with the current seals, and then, if your testing discovers a better, longer lasting seal, just send each customer a few seals thru the mail.

    That way, you get your product out before christmas, customers get their new toys, and you still live up to your customer care and reliability reputation.

    Everyone's happy!

    Jan.
    He's not the messiah! He's a very naughty boy!


  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    "The SC" (South Carolina)
    Posts
    16,193
    After sleeping on it (and watching a lot of MSNBC...) I came to a similar conclusion as Jan.

    Here is what I was thinking Tom...

    1) Is 15% distortion rate acceptable? Well depends...Is that a normal failure rate on any other tanks? I suspect not as you seem to imply it is unacceptable.

    B) Does this distortion actualy cause any performance problems? I suspect it might as you seem to be concerned about it.

    III) Is this a Safety problem? I suspect not as you imply you "Could" ship them out. And I doubt you would even mention it if you thought they were unsafe.

    4) How hard is it to change these seals and does Jans suggestion to ship some extra's with then make sense to you?


    I for one would never be afraid to take one of these with the newer seal right now as I am certain you would stand behind it like you have all of your other products. However I can surely understand if you chose to wait until seals distortion proves to be at a much lower failure rate as the cost of replacing too many of these eats into profit. And we all want you to suceed and stay in business so that would be reason enough to delay. I would be willing to take a chance on one of these newer seals right now though because I am in a situation where I need a tank immediately and don't expect to be buying another one for a few years.
    Last edited by cphilip; 10-08-2001 at 06:44 AM.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Cottonwood, Az.
    Posts
    5,507
    It always pays off in the long run to do it right the first time.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Kansas City, MO USA
    Posts
    1,765
    Tom - I am pretty sure I sound like a big retard asking this- but the Raptor (Air Americas nitro reg) has a version for 4500 psi (Raptor Rex). Now - granted I havent taken a flatline apart - but looking at these pics they look similar to the raptor reg seats. What materials are they using in the Raptor Rex? If it is the same, are they having the same problems and not telling any one? If they arent having that problem - is their anything from the design that could be barrowed for the flatline or to help rectify the problem.

    Again - I am talking with only a child like understanding - but I guess my main question is if its mainly a materials issue - could a similar reg using a similar material hold the answer?

    Problems or questions with the site or your account? Email me: webmaster@automags.org I collect old guns and paintball gear. Email me if you have stuff to sell!

    Paintball Never Dies - www.vintagerex.com

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Kansas City, MO USA
    Posts
    1,765
    On one more note - I want to keep encouraging AGD to work on the FLATLINE. I know that they have been working on this problem on and off since Ocotober last year. I simply LOVE my two Flatline systems, find them light, compact, durable, easy to adjust, reliable, and has the BEST on/off of any reg available. Simply put - its a kick butt reg. I know AGD has invested a ton of time/energy/money in the 4500 systems. I for one want one for my back. I use an 88cui tank for my emag durning longer games and it gets to be too much towards the end of the day. A 68 4500 would rock my world.

    So when the 8th cup of coffee is wearing off - just remember we are all pulling for you.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Thompson, Ct
    Posts
    1,935

    Thumbs up

    It's been my experience with many paintball products that rushing a product to market is far more important than getting it right. Take your time, Tom. Get it right. And thanks for asking.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    "The SC" (South Carolina)
    Posts
    16,193
    Here Here! Thanks Webby!!! I too am "urging" if thats the right word. But me no gotta tank so me more "urging" than you! Am gonna get a 3000 if I can't get this 4500 I guess.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Heritics burn the best
    Posts
    4,479
    i may sound cruel in this but if you dont have everyone perfect by the end of october send em out for the xmas season i mean looking at it finacially here you gotta see a big sales boost around then and after xmas but say you dont get it fixed until next year youve lost a market edge and what on earth would make someone wanna buy this tank and reg when they can get the super electro mega reg /ultra 5 hydro tank for 100 bucks more?plus you guys have great custome service and if it breaks they know where to send it

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    California
    Posts
    721
    Tom - Heres what I'm looking at. The Airgun name is already a tarnished name in the field of pro players, everyone is going electro and cocker. Remembering that the majority of 4500 sales is from the tourniment players, since most fields dont even give 4500 fills unless at a tourniment (and some dont even then). Now, if the big time tourniment players decide to get an AGD flatline, and it happens to be one of the say 1-15% (depending how much the fix worked, but there is always some manufacturing defect for that 1%), then that gives AGD an even more tarnished name as that player spreads the rumor of the 'crappy 4500 AGD tanks'. With the internet's large groups like at PBC, rumors spread fast.

    Now, on the other hand, with production time and everything, HOPEFULLY if you were to ok it today, the systems could be out and stocked in stores by early december for the big buying season. Waiting another 3+ weeks to do more tests and such, then going into production and all that, how likely is it that they'll be out in time for christmas?

    Now, after that information, its up to you, there are other factors also that I'm sure you realize. Personally, it seems like an easy fix, something along the lines of the early warps with the plastic then brass gear. I'd say run the shipment now, get them out and big, throw an add in APG or PGI or something for them, sell a bunch for christmas, and include a warrenty card or something like that with them, so incase there is a problem then its an easy fix and convienent for the customer.

    We all know you guys have great customer service, if its a small update you think you may have to do, its all your decision, but personally I'd rather you guys get them out. We dont want something like the Zgrip incident to happen to 4500 flatlines.
    ~Chaos
    chaos@cazorp.com
    NutBuster.net
    Team AO, SoCal

    Wanna talk to a REAL skanline guntech? Email smackmyass@cazorp.com

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Kansas City, MO USA
    Posts
    1,765
    up

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    4028.104'N 7949.208'W
    Posts
    6,229
    Keep working on them, but sell me one in Nov when I come out I'll take a reject as long as it's just a reg seat that needs chaged every so often Or is this something that happens right away when you fill the tank for the first time.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Plainfield, Illinois
    Posts
    1,324
    Any new information on the 4500 Flatlines? I have some money burning a hole in my wallet for one
    Jonathan Edwards-Captain,Damage Inc.
    2003 CPSA Novice Division Champions

    Red/Black Fade Alais Intimidator
    Red Eblade GX3 Cocker-68/4500 AGD Flatline

    Check My Feedback Here
    Visit Damage Inc's Home Field and Sponsor Fox Paintball
    Check Out Damage Inc's Team Website

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    5,947
    The guys that have them for testing have been slow to send them back for the update. So far the updated ones are fine but we don't have enough data to know for sure. WC, the SFL's, plastic nubbins and Superbolts have been taking all our time. Look for another update in a couple weeks.

    AGD

  30. #30
    WE ARE WAITING FOR4.5K!!!!!!!

Similar Threads

  1. 4500 Flatline questions
    By JEDI in forum Automags - Tech Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-01-2002, 02:04 PM
  2. Flatline 4500?
    By Kdoggg in forum Paintball Talk
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-18-2002, 07:07 PM
  3. Color of 4500 Flatline
    By Ibuprofen in forum Paintball Talk
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 12-18-2001, 12:17 AM
  4. Can i get a 4500 Flatline drop thing for my 3000?
    By MajorDamage in forum Paintball Talk
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 12-14-2001, 02:20 PM
  5. AGD, 3000 PSI Flatline to 4500 PSI Flatline upgrade?
    By MajorDamage in forum Paintball Talk
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-31-2001, 03:17 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •