No More Sig Images!!!

[Thordic]

And yes, I AM YELLING.

I can't take it anymore. It's getting so bad that posts not just take forever to load, but they just plain DON'T LOAD because of everyone slapping sig images all over the damn place.

NOT EVERYONE USES BROADBAND.

It's getting so bad I don't even bother trying to look at long posts anymore because they take forever to load because all the sig images take too damn long.

This is nothing personal against anyone, but it needs to end or something. I know I have an image in my signature, but as of this post, I'm taking it out.

If you want to chase modem users away, by all means, keep making sig images, because it will work, it already is.

[wyn1370]

Sorry, I do have one
But somebody made a good point a while back. If you post more than once in a topic, only include your signature in the first post. This may not accomplish much but may cutt down on the images a little.

[Thordic]

Maybe if they put the default as NOT showing sig images, and you had to click to show it, instead of having to deselect it each time would be better.

[shartley]

Let me point out something. Once an image is loaded ONCE, and it is on the page 100,000 times, it all loads at the same time. So there is no need in NOT using the image in each post since as soon as the first one loads, they ALL load. (I hope that clears up that issue.)

As for slow loading times because of Signature Images... sure, I can see that as being an issue... BUT only for those who don't use images that are about 10K or so. I try to keep all mine at about that size. Some are 8 and some are 12, but it all balances out.

I see more of a problem with people posting actual Pictures and stuff on their posts, than with Signature Images (been to the Mag Picture Threads? Ever see anyone complain about it?). And often times when I load a page up, it is the FORUMS graphics that come in last, NOT the Signature Images... maybe we should get rid of those too?

I can understand slow modems, but since the AVERAGE modem speed in the US has risen greatly, even that should not be a major issue. I say use the medium to an acceptable level, and Signature Images in my opinion are an acceptable level (when kept to a limited size).

I tend to think this is an issue of not wanting to SEE the images than one of genuine concern for load times. Otherwise why the complaint now? Why not a week ago? And why not from a large number of people. Seems to me that the overall reception of the images has been a positive one, not a negative one.

They have ADDED to the Forums, not taken away from them.

But... who knows, I could be wrong.

[shartley]

Oh, and so people don't think I am editing my posts for content (as in saying something BAD and them going back and taking it out)....

What about cache? Once the images are on your system, they load up VERY quickly. I tested this by going to threads I have not been to, but KNEW they had signature images in them... guess what? They were all loaded. No wait time. Why? Because they are in my cache. hmmmm

Seems like the only real lag tends to be added Photo's, actual content, and actual site graphics. But wasn't the complaint about Signature Images? I am confused.

Okay, there WILL be those with extremely slow modems. But like I pointed out, they NEVER complained before, and I offered examples of things causing actual slowdowns (such as the Mag Picture Threads). Again, no complaints before.

I would like someone to bring up a rational and logical reason for NOT having the signature images, because the excuse given has been proven to be a little inaccurate when looked at rationally... this is nothing personal against anyone.

[Thordic]

Shartley, you assume everyone uses their cache.

I have my browser set to load everytime because in the past I've noticed a lot of instances where pages didn't update when I had the cache in use.

This isn't only me, either, I know other people who don't use their cache for the same reason. It's a real pain in the butt when you go to a site and even though you know it was updated, your browser refuses to update it due to the cache.

Also, BESIDES that, I flush all my temp files once a week, minimum. So even if I did have my cache in use, it would still be slow once a week.

Your arguement about image threads doesn't hold any water because those threads are SUPPOSED to be full of images. When I go to read a tech thread about something, I don't expect 15 images to have to download.

I come here to read information, Shartley, not to stare at pretty pictures. When the pictures start interfereing with the information, you have a problem.

[wyn1370]

I don't know how slow your modem is, but my modem at home doesn't have a problem. And besides, if you're not interested in the images, you can read the post faster, the text is to load, so you don't have to wait for the images to load.

[Riotz]

Thordic is right. Not everyone uses their cache. I, for one, have it set so it reloads the page from the server everytime it's viewed. Why? To make sure I have the most up-to-date version of the page. Of course, I wouldn't expect you to know this...



Hey, maybe if I make nice signature images for everyone they will like me... =D

[cphilip]

Thordic do me a favor. Go up to the top of this Forum and load the file that has all the signatures in it. I mean there are two pages of just Shartley made signature graphics in it. Surprise! It loads very very quickly. About as fast as any other thread. And its all graphics. And at least Sam host them on his server not ours.

However...some here are not using Sam's graphics and in some cases they are much larger. But you see...its mostly a non-issue as there is not much anyone can do to stop someone from personalizing their stuff. However I do think its polite to only use them once in a post. That I agree with. I believe we have requested that before and it should be repeated. But seriously if you demand others not do something around here they will do it just to spite you. And posting a graphic in your signature is not against the rules. I prefer they be small like you do.

So please everyone review the size you have and see if you can tone it down. OK? Fair enough Thordic?

[Load SM5]

While I'm not as computer savvy as most here (old dog/new tricks)when I use the computer at work, hooked up to an ancient modem and even older phone lines, I don't have a problem with slow page loading. When it does act slow it's do to the books some people tend to write when they post and not so much the "pretty pictures".

Personally, I feel the way the sigs brighten up the forum and give the members a bit more personality and a "face",is worth the few seconds of lag.

[Thordic]

That post has absolutely no point being a sticky.. AO isn't a showcase for Shartley to show off easily made signature images. I'm not going to encourage stuff like that being stickied.

[shartley]

Hey, maybe if I make nice signature images for everyone they will like me... =D

That is uncalled for, and I guess the contest I ran for Tom (and you Won Riotz) was so everyone would like me? And all the other stuff I do that you don't have a clue about (and is not posted on AO, but is FOR all of you), is so that everyone will like me too?

Some people have a problem with me, and THAT is the issue. Not the Signature Graphic, not load time, not anything else.

If someone CHOOSES to not use their cache, that is THEIR decision. And should the world conform to YOUR choice in how you run your Browser? NO.

So unless you have a valid complaint, it is just blowing hot air and trying to cause problems.... which is what a few of you claim is MY only purpose on AO. Grow up.

[wyn1370]

Thordic,
Go to your user cp menu. Edit options. then turn off
Show image attachments and [img] code in Posts?

it will get rid of images and smilies, but the sig images still show up

[Thordic]

Which removes any pics I want to see along with the ones I don't want to see.

Thats like the US winning the war in afghanistan by just killing everyone in the country. It works, but its not a very good solution.

[Temo Vryce]

I don't know if it's possib;e on this board or not but I know that on other boards I use it's possible to set it up so that you don't see peoples sig's if you don't want to. That might be something that Webmaster or one of the Moderators can look into. I don't know if this forum software supports that option or not but I know the the Ikonboard software does. just my $0.02

[Webmaster]

Well - this is an issue that I will have to keep tabs on...

The reason I don't want Avatars is both because of the load time - and because it swamps the server with added requests.

However, I have opted to let people include images in their signature. I was less worried about server bog down because the images are hosted on other servers. Originally I was going to have one - but like many things that is on the back burner.

Certainly with Shartley obliging so many requests recently, the number of signature images has increased. (and it seems the most prolific posters have images). But at the same time he is considerate and keeping the files sizes reasonably small.

At work I am on 1/2 a T1 - but I too am on a dial up at home. While slower, everything comes up at what I consider a reasonable speed.

The recommendation of using your cache is a good one. This site is based on that assumption, as the original graphic load is 1/2 way decent (not super slow, but not super fast) and the DHTML elements balloon the file size up.

I know some people have problems with thier browsers not properly viewing updated pages. You may with to manually refresh in that case - or look to the cause of that problem - as a cache really does make surfing faster. I have found IE does a better job of it than netscape does for sure...

So - anyway - I will keep tabs on this. Thordic has a valid concern, but I dont know if its to the point that alot of people are having problems. If I get a lot of complaints I may need to remove the privilege of images in your signature. If you don't have a shartley created image, you may want to double check that your sig image is under 15K - there really is no reason for it to be larger than that. At the same time, one may try not use thier signature for every post.

thanks

[shartley]

That post has absolutely no point being a sticky.. AO isn't a showcase for Shartley to show off easily made signature images. I'm not going to encourage stuff like that being stickied.

There you have it! Thank you Thordic. You see, it was not MY idea to do it.. it came from the AO members. If the things I do are so darn easy, why didn't everyone else do it? And it is not about load time after all (which I knew from the beginning).

LOL This is now becoming silly.

You are right, I don't know anything. The Images are EASY to do. I have done nothing but make those easy signature images. Heck... remember? You said that most of the people here on AO don't even respect me. I have sure pulled the wool over everyone's eyes. Thank you Thordic for pointing that out.

[Riotz]

First, the cache issue. I was just pointing out an option that most people use with their browser. You didn't seem to realize that this feature existed. Just a FYI. You like to point things out to people, so I wanted to point something out to you.


As for the contest, I didn't like the way you handled some issues. But I kept my mouth shut. I'm GLAD you did it for AO and for everyone here. You took your extra time, which you seem to have allot of, and helped out. I applaud you. GREAT JOB! However, you need to act a little more friendlier to people and be more flexible. You aren't always right and you need to learn to admit when you are wrong.

[cphilip]

It was stickied by request and at the suggestion from BlackVCG last night. He offered to do it and though it was a good idea. I agreed with it. So I stickied it for him this morning. Since I knew Black wasn't online yet.


If you want to follow along with that read this: https://www.automags.org/forums/showt...threadid=14837

Perhaps you are not being totally truthfull about what it is exactly you have problem with. I suspect now it's not the graphics issue at all now is it? You used to ahve one and liked it.

[Webmaster]

OK - here is another solution - go to you your control panel (user CP button at top)

I believe under thread options you will see this:

Show user's signatures in their posts?

So you can opt to turn off users signatures - meaning it will be faster loading all around.

That should be the solution for anyone not wanting to view sig images...

[Temo Vryce]

Ok in my earlier post I mentioned having the option of disabiling users sig's. I went looking to see if this option was available and guess what, it is. Because I'm a nice guy here's the steps to disable viewing all the sig's.

1. click on the User CP button near the top of the page.
2. click on the Edit Options option.
3. scroll down to the Thread View Options section.
4. say no to "Show user's signatures in their posts?".
5. view the posts without sig's and be happy.

I hope this will help you out some.

[wyn1370]

Thordic,
So you're saying you want pictures to load up every time you look at a topic. I for one, if I had load time problems, would rather view the image once by clicking on the link, then whenever I would go back to the post, I wouldn't have to wait for the same old image to reload.
And smilies, half of the darn things are animated, those little buggers can't load quick.
Just trying to be helpful, but if you insist on being spitful toward everyone who doesn't share your view, by all means carry on.

[Temo Vryce]

wow Webmaster is fast. He beat me to it. And I thought I was going to get to it first. Oh well.

[cphilip]

Thanks Webby seems like a solution to me... If thats realy the problem.

[Thordic]

Webby, the posts load a little slow with all the sig images, but the reason I am getting pissed is because today a few posts simply refused to load because of peoples sig images.

It kept trying to load the image, and the post never came up, eventually my browser just gave up.

And no, this person had nothing to do with shartley, but sig images have increased tenfold since he started making them, and it is really starting to be a problem when some peoples sig images screw up posts loading.

Its not only a matter of size. If someone's server where they are hosting the sig image is slow or down, it can cause a huge pain in the butt as a post refuses to load for me until most of the graphics are loaded. If one persons graphic won't load, I can't read the post.

Aside from that, my modem sucks because I live in an old house in an old neighborhood where the phone lines are ancient, and I am LUCKY if I can connect at 28.8. I've gone for a week without being able to connect better than 14.4. Once, 7200 was the best I could get for 4 days.

Is it an uncommon problem? Probably, not everyone lives in hundred year old houses.

As for using the cache, Webby, from my experience in 7+ odd years of using the web fairly extensively, its been my personal experience that even with the speed issue, not using the cache is better. Most of my regularly visited sites are updated daily at the very least, and whats the point of putting the cache on if I have to hit reload all the time anyway?

In a few months, I'll have my cable modem and won't care anymore, but I'm just saying it is a small problem right now.

[Webmaster]

Temo Vryce
- thanks for the more step by step walk through...

To clearify my position - I will continue to allow signatures to have images - just try to keep them under 15k. If I see bloated images I will alter your sig tag to tell you to change it...

If I get alot of complaints from users we will not allow people to post images in thier signature.

thanks...

[Webmaster]

Thordic - I sympathize, but in all honestly, I frequent many websites and the cache works fine for me...

I dont want you to think I am ignoring your request, but I cant make site wide changes because of one person having problems. I have come up with a good solution (turn off signatures) so that you can use the site more effectively and enjoy it more. So, I hope you can see that this is possibly the better solution at this point.

I agree the number of sig images has increased - but until I hear alot of complaints, I wish users to beable to express their individuality by using them.

[Potatoboy]

Ok, I for one don't see the real problem. For instance, My signature image is a whopping 1611 bytes. This is approximately half the filesize as three of the page header buttons (user cp, register, calendar, etc.) and approximately one quarter of the filesize of the AO logo that's at the top of every page! I understand that it may take a little longer, but on a 56K or even 28.8 modem it shouldn't be all that noticeable. If it is then you may in fact have a problem with your ISP and/or phone lines. At the time of writing this, the "No More Sig Images!!!" post page was 104565 bytes. This is without any images at all, just the HTML itself. After you include all of the mandatory images, (the header, footer, and navigation buttons) another 10K (avg for shartley images) or 1K (my image) is literally another drop in the bucket.

[Thordic]

Originally posted by shartley

There you have it! Thank you Thordic. You see, it was not MY idea to do it.. it came from the AO members. If the things I do are so darn easy, why didn't everyone else do it? And it is not about load time after all (which I knew from the beginning).

I was referring to the fact there was actually a sticky about your signature images.

The person who caused this whole thread was someone not using your sig images who had a lot of smilies in their sig.

But since you and cphilip felt like bringing up your images, I figured I might as well comment on them anyway.

[Riotz]

Hey Webby,

Which board supports a little icon under the user nick on the left side?

----
It would look something like:
----
Riotz
Junior Member

[ICON]

etc etc
----

Just wondering if it was this board or UBB or something.