the search for the space mag

**Maghog** · 10-01-2005, 08:40 AM

Thanks Maggot for opening my eyes.

I'm perfectly capable of copying those designs myself one way or another, but this isn't about recreating them. It's not about owning them either.
Their existence is a marvel in itself. The guy who made these is a true artist. We have too many people in this sport who take an effort like this for granted.
That's not taking anything away from Doc either, his website is full of original ideas and creations, but he still gets about as much recognition for it as AGD does for creating High Pressure cylinders.
Personally, I think that the space mags are some of the most beautiful looking paintball guns ever made. If you had the chance to see a group of photos that cover them from all angles, would you pass it up?
If I can find them, or the name of the man that made them, I'd be preserving part of the history of our sport.
That's really all I'm after.

**Doc Nickel** · 10-02-2005, 01:26 AM

Now you guys got me interested in the project again.

'Couple of things I've realized though; First, I got the proportions slightly wrong when I laid out the drawings for the waterjet. It's not "way" off, but I did notice a few bits here and there that I must have mis-drawn. I'd taken that same photo, blown it up to what I thought was normal size (going by the length of the rail, which was about the only dimension I had to go by) and sketched the outline on a light table.

But I can see now a few places I misinterpreted a line or a fingergroove.

Second, for some reason this is a lot easier now.

I remember working for hours on that shaping years ago, going slowly and carefully. Today I just had a few minutes to kill waiting on something else, so I got out the air tools and roughed one into shape. Two-plus hours later...

The lines are just marker, to show placement. I haven't drilled any screwholes or anything, it's just been rough-shaped so far.

It's not perfect or "identical" to the original, but it's pretty close. Like Dan, I really wish I had a better or higher-resolution photo of the original.

I'll make a few more tweaks before I call it "finished". It's surprisingly comfortable. I've never been a huge fan of the "palm swell" grip profiles, but this one doesn't seem to get in the way. Just for looks though, I might try reshaping it to a more conventional straight-back .45 style and use some grip panels...

Last: Someone E-mailed me inquiring about the other body. I tried to reply and AOL kicked the message back. If you could try again with a different address, I'd be happy to discuss details.

Doc.

**NigelF** · 10-02-2005, 02:42 AM

Doc, I dont mean to second guess you, but for this particular project I think I would shy away from using any style of grips. With the stylized aesthetic the frame has to offer, I think I'd do what I could to leave it as a stand-alone piece. Perhaps incorporate some milling (or lack thereof, and just round everything off) into the grip itself.

just my opinion.

Nigel F

Originally Posted by Doc Nickel

Now you guys got me interested in the project again.

'Couple of things I've realized though; First, I got the proportions slightly wrong when I laid out the drawings for the waterjet. It's not "way" off, but I did notice a few bits here and there that I must have mis-drawn. I'd taken that same photo, blown it up to what I thought was normal size (going by the length of the rail, which was about the only dimension I had to go by) and sketched the outline on a light table.

But I can see now a few places I misinterpreted a line or a fingergroove.

Second, for some reason this is a lot easier now.

I remember working for hours on that shaping years ago, going slowly and carefully. Today I just had a few minutes to kill waiting on something else, so I got out the air tools and roughed one into shape. Two-plus hours later...

The lines are just marker, to show placement. I haven't drilled any screwholes or anything, it's just been rough-shaped so far.

It's not perfect or "identical" to the original, but it's pretty close. Like Dan, I really wish I had a better or higher-resolution photo of the original.

I'll make a few more tweaks before I call it "finished". It's surprisingly comfortable. I've never been a huge fan of the "palm swell" grip profiles, but this one doesn't seem to get in the way. Just for looks though, I might try reshaping it to a more conventional straight-back .45 style and use some grip panels...

Last: Someone E-mailed me inquiring about the other body. I tried to reply and AOL kicked the message back. If you could try again with a different address, I'd be happy to discuss details.

Doc.

**Maghog** · 10-02-2005, 03:24 AM

Nice job Doc, that looks really good.
I'm the one who e-mailed you Doc, and I'm still interested in that last blank. Like I mentioned, it would be great if it had slots for sears, trigger pin holes and the rest.
If not, I'll deal.
I only have one email address, don't know why it didn't work. I'll PM it to you with an offer.
Dan

**Arstron** · 10-02-2005, 10:41 AM

Wow, after looking at that picture does anyone else think a space emag would look great? Or at the very least think that a -15* adapter for the emag battery would look incredible?

**AGD** · 10-02-2005, 12:00 PM

If I knew where those guns were I would have bought them myself. I would sugest contacting John Sosta he would be the only one I could think of that might have a line on them. I have never talked to anyone that has seen them in person.

Lookin' good Doc!

AGD

**Doc Nickel** · 10-02-2005, 03:33 PM

Actually, the bounced 'mail was "Ageespokane". If he, or anyone else, is interested in this frame once it's done, feel free to drop me a line. (doc-at-docsmachine.com) I'd hate to see all this work just sit and gather dust.

(Um... again...)

Tom- I think of the guy was anywhere in the US, those things would have turned up long before now. But as I said, I suspect he's both in Europe and very likely has gotten out of the sport. I think you're going to have to find an old paintballer in France or England somewhere. You might drop a line to Manike as well. He was a Brit up until just recently.

Doc.

**Maggot6** · 10-02-2005, 06:20 PM

Sorry Maghog, I didn't mean to sound condescending. I didn't know the real reason as to why you wanted a spacemag in the first place.

Their existence is a marvel in itself. The guy who made these is a true artist. We have too many people in this sport who take an effort like this for granted.

I figured that you wanted it, just to say "hey my mags better than yours..." , It's just that to much of Doc's work goes unseen, and I'd really want him to make one of these, and actually have it out in the public.

So Doc, how much would a spacemag-reincarnated thing cost anyway, wayyy to much for the average paintballer or somewhat affordable?

**Maghog** · 10-02-2005, 09:27 PM

No offense taken.

I asked John Sosta, and I've posted everywhere I can think of. I can't find them

Oh well, I tried.
At least we still have Doc.

**doc_Zox** · 10-03-2005, 08:32 PM

ya know what would be sweet?

a space mag with an aluminum sleeved Apex!

**behemoth** · 10-03-2005, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by doc_Zox

ya know what would be sweet?

a space mag with an aluminum sleeved Apex!

Thats great.

That cylinder is there, might as well make it functional for "spacemag, ver 2.0"

**Doc Nickel** · 10-03-2005, 10:03 PM

Dan! The guys over at the Tinker's Guild managed to unearth a few bits of information for you.

First, there's this page from the Web Archives dating to 1999 referring to the sale of the RT-based Spacemag. An E-mail address is given, but I haven't tried it.

Second, somebody found this, this, this and this hosted on Airgun.com, attributing them to a fellow by name of Allan Hastie.

Hope that helps you any, and again, please let us know how it pans out.

Doc.

**Maghog** · 10-04-2005, 03:22 AM

You're awesome Doc, I was ready to give up, but I'm back on it. I will try hard to contact Allan, but I fear these things have changed hands so many times that he will know little about their whereabouts. Still, it's great to have a name, and I will be honored just to be in contact with him (if I find him)
I cannot believe that someone would go and anodize one of these things, with a splash pattern no less. If there would be a puking smily you could add in to your post, I'd use about five of them!
Thanks again Doc for keeping the search alive!
I'll be sure to post whatever I discover,
Dan

**MarkM** · 10-04-2005, 05:08 AM

That is the one I saw and held, though it wasn't splash anno'ed when I last saw it, remember I said previously about the timer in the grip.

That email link is dead, if you use demon or as it actually links to as denom

Demon as an ISP went some years ago
I have been trying the telephone number for the last little while but whoever is on that number likes to talk as it is engaged.

**Maghog** · 10-04-2005, 06:03 AM

I tried the number too, but I got some weird answering machine. If you do get through though Mark, let me know.
Like I said, I think these things have had so many different owners that they are either lost between some sofa cushions somewhere or dismantled at the bottom of a mag parts pile.

**MarkM** · 10-04-2005, 06:12 AM

Ok progress!!!

Ian was not the owner of the Space Mag his brother was, I have his telephone number and will be ringing him once I finish this post.

Information regarding the Mag's themslves,
Totally hand made, no milling machines, the pic above was after it had been sold and then anno'ed at Planet Paintball in Manchester.
Ian was the guy who installed the timer.

More updates when I get them....oh and Ian is now looking for some other pics that he took (all the ones except the splash anno'ed one where his pictures to begin with)

**MarkM** · 10-04-2005, 06:19 AM

Right fantastic progress!!

I have found the last one that was made and yes it can be for sale!

So Tom or Maghog get in touch with me as I have both the email address and telephone number.

For the record there were 3 only made the splash one was the first (though as I have said this was anno'ed after it was sold on), then the other two...one is still on the MIA list.

They were made from a solid piece of Billet ally on a lathe and drill press they took approx 3 month each as the hand finishing took that long.

The timer was infact a shot counter as I remembered when talking with the maker. Who is now no longer interested in paintball

**Doc Nickel** · 10-04-2005, 06:36 AM

Great! Somebody write this up as a story...

And keep us informed!

Doc.

**Maghog** · 10-04-2005, 07:16 AM

Unbelievable!!!
So then you found two of them? Am I understanding this correctly? You rock Mark.
Pics are a must!!!
Mark, I will PM you my email and you can give me the info on the owners.
You're right Doc, this is worth writing a story about

**Maghog** · 10-04-2005, 07:59 AM

If those are hand made

I bow down to the awesomeness that it is.
I'm really going to have to meet this guy...

**MarkM** · 10-04-2005, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Maghog

Unbelievable!!!
So then you found two of them? Am I understanding this correctly? You rock Mark.
Pics are a must!!!
Mark, I will PM you my email and you can give me the info on the owners.
You're right Doc, this is worth writing a story about

No, not two as such just the last one which is RT based and still in the makers possession. As I understood the conversation it is the last pictured Space Mag that is for sale, however it may well be the first one or if it is the other other way around, there is still one to be found well two actually since the location of the Spashed Anno'ed one is currently unknown.
Doc, the anno job was done by Planet NOT owned by Planet.

The Order of Creation is

But was orginally raw not splashed anno

**SlartyBartFast** · 10-04-2005, 10:38 AM

I'm sure that I have an old issue of "Paintball 100%" with the second one in it.

"Paintball 100%" was a French paintball magazine that was available for a short while.

Lots of good articles included Mags. Topless girl on the front cover of one issue if I remember correctly.

I'll look in my boxes of old magazines...

**Maghog** · 10-04-2005, 10:50 AM

Alright gang, I've struck gold thanks to Mark. After being ready to give up and imagining custom mags as can openers, I've spoken to the creator personally.
Alan was surprised that anyone remembered his work, and it almost seemed as though he forgot about it himself. He still has the last of them, the RT on the bottom that Mark shows in the order of fabrication.
Sadly he does not know where the other two guns are, as it has been near to 15 years since he created them and sold them off. According to him, the RT was the complete version, while the other two were prototypes. Pretty nice prototypes as far as I'm concerned.
This find is simply electrifying for me. I not only found one, but I got in touch with the maker. I want to thank Mark and Doc for helping me so much. Even if I don't find the others, I feel as though I've accomplished more than what I set out to do.
Today was an awesome day for me.
DaN

**Will Wood** · 10-04-2005, 10:59 AM

This is the power of AO, people!

I'm just suprised it took so long for someone to want to conquer the mystery of the space mags...

**AGD** · 10-04-2005, 11:23 AM

Nice job Mark and AO!! I will let Maghog have that last one but if you ever find the middle one......

AGD

**Arstron** · 10-04-2005, 02:11 PM

congratulations maghog and mark, you guys did a great job of bringing information about the space mags back to us. I hope that atleast one of them will make it back to the community for good.

**bunny5** · 10-04-2005, 02:50 PM

Get detective work guys

Now lets try and find all the SFL emags

It couldn't be as hard as finding the spacemags can it?

**Will Wood** · 10-04-2005, 03:11 PM

It's been done

**Creative Mayhem** · 10-04-2005, 03:22 PM

Nice jobe Mark!!

Here's my limited contribution...

I have had these for a long time and can't remember where i got em, but i had to dig through my old laptop(P2 200 32megs ram... ugh)

**phantomhitman** · 10-04-2005, 03:29 PM

so where is this guy located at?

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