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Thread: Is it Tuning or is it the Tank?

  1. #1
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    Is it Tuning or is it the Tank?

    hello everyone,
    I think I've gotten myself a little over my head by buying both a Lvl 10 and a ULT kit in one buy. I've been having several different troubles while the gun is aired up:
    -leaking from the valve just as i air it up.
    -lvl 10 makes a chuffing sound when I have the ULT in and try to go faster on the trigger
    -I had the "sprinkler" sound one time, but only once
    -Yesterday, I gassed the system up and tried to shoot one or two shots, but suddenly the macroline from the tank BLEW UP. And when I say it blew up, I mean that a huge gaping hole was ripped in the side of the macroline. (a side note: I have a gauge that is on the side of my ASA that was shot/broken becasue it's max pressure was reached, and it's a 0 to 1200 gauge, therefore, I believe that my tank had had a violent spike in pressure which caused the macroline to break)

    I have two opinions on what is causing the problems:
    -my tank is a piece of junk (48/3000 G1 Guerilla steely)
    -my Lvl 10 and ULT are not tuned properly

    could anyone help me out here?

  2. #2
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    Tune/install one part at a time and before you do anything, OIL THE HELL OUT OF IT!!!

  3. #3
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    Sounds like you should be looking at a new tank also, or at least a new regulator.
    Superbolt

  4. #4
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    Thanks guys, I've put the basic RT on/off back in to test out what could be wrong with the bolt. I've been changing the shims up and down with interesting results.

    1. no shims = heavy leaking from bolt
    2. one shim = some leaking, changes between each shot. A very quiet leaking can be heard from the bolt when it as at rest. When I push the bolt back it sounds like it is leaking more
    3. two shims = seems like there is more leaking than one shim


    The symptoms point towards an incorrectly sized carrier so I checked that, and I'm pretty sure it fits ok.

  5. #5
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    changing the shims in the level 10?

    Start with 2 and go to a smaller carrier. Sounds like the carrier is leaking.

  6. #6
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    I think Smoothice is right, try changing the carrier. If you end up not being able to get it right send the whole set up to me, and I'll tune it up for you.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the offer Fishmishin, that just proves how good of a seller you are. I'm afraid I'm going to decline any send in assistance because I want to know how to do this myself. If every time I had an issue with the system I had to send it in, I would never learn anything.

    Thanks again, I'm out of air for now, but I'll make sure to repost whenever I am able to test out you guys' advice.

    -Thanks again you guys

  8. #8
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    Tune it without shims. Shims come in later.

    Good idea to tune it without the ULE Trigger Kit. Get it working with the stock RT on/off pin first.
    Use oil then follow these steps in order:

    1. Break in carrier o-ring with 1000 shots in carrier #2 (2 lines, no dots on side of carrier, or largest you have).
    2. Move broken-in white carrier o-ring to largest carrier that does not leak.
    3. If bolt sticks on squeegy test, add shims until it resets reliably.
    4. Chrono marker to field speed. (this is important, don't just do it by sound)
    5. If gun breaks paint (test with no loader and make an electrical tape string for paintball to hang only halfway in breach) use a longer mainspring (on the contrary, if bolt continuously "LVL 10's" or "chuffs" use a shorter mainspring).
    6. Profit.

  9. #9
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    When testing to determine if you need to add shims, they will only help if the bolt moves forward but does not vent air. If the gun fires but does not reset, or if the bolt chuffs but won't reset, or if the bolt moves forward and leaks air out the front but won't reset, then shims will not help. Shims only shorten the distance that the bolt needs to move in order to vent air so that it can reset. Most of the time, the bolt can move forward far enough on its own, even with a breach blockage, to vent and reset.
    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by roxcreek
    Thanks for the offer Fishmishin, that just proves how good of a seller you are. I'm afraid I'm going to decline any send in assistance because I want to know how to do this myself. If every time I had an issue with the system I had to send it in, I would never learn anything.

    Thanks again, I'm out of air for now, but I'll make sure to repost whenever I am able to test out you guys' advice.

    -Thanks again you guys
    EXCELLENT ANSWER

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by maniacmechanic
    EXCELLENT ANSWER
    thanks

  12. #12
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    ok, new developments:

    I'm thinking that the issue is that, for the first part, the ULT does not even fit into the assmebly properly, so I guess I'm gonna be running the RT on off. Then, I found out that the pin I have for the on off I have might be the wrong size for the sear I'm using. Therefore I asume that Emag sears and standard AM/MM sears have different on/off shapes.

    ??? I'm not sure, so could I get someone's confirmation on that?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by roxcreek
    ok, new developments:

    I'm thinking that the issue is that, for the first part, the ULT does not even fit into the assmebly properly, so I guess I'm gonna be running the RT on off. Then, I found out that the pin I have for the on off I have might be the wrong size for the sear I'm using. Therefore I asume that Emag sears and standard AM/MM sears have different on/off shapes.

    ??? I'm not sure, so could I get someone's confirmation on that?
    1. What valve you have? ULT's don't work on all valves.
    2. Are you trying to install lowers to your marker? If so, the on/off pin is different length wise and a ULT will work but isn't advised. They are troublesome to tweak on a E-Mag.

    The on/off assembly are one in the same for either the mech or the e-mag, There aren't 2 types of assemblies. Only thing that's different is the length of the pin.

    The ULT on/off is completely different from your normal on/off assembly.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ando
    1. What valve you have? ULT's don't work on all valves.
    2. Are you trying to install lowers to your marker? If so, the on/off pin is different length wise and a ULT will work but isn't advised. They are troublesome to tweak on a E-Mag.

    The on/off assembly are one in the same for either the mech or the e-mag, There aren't 2 types of assemblies. Only thing that's different is the length of the pin.

    The ULT on/off is completely different from your normal on/off assembly.
    Thanks, I am trying to install the RT E-Mag Valve onto a AM/MM rail, Intelliframe, Am/MM sear and ULE body. After a little research in the AGD store, I saw how E-Mag on/offs are shorter than Standards. Thus, I have discovered my largest issue with the system: personal ignorance. Could I simply swap my current (E-Mag) On/off pin for the regular RT pin and expect their lengths to be the only functional difference? For that matter, could I just order a RT assembly and pop it right in with some lube, and have it fit? Is there any way I can order a replacement On/off main housing so that I can install the ULT kit?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by roxcreek
    Thanks, I am trying to install the RT E-Mag Valve onto a AM/MM rail, Intelliframe, Am/MM sear and ULE body. After a little research in the AGD store, I saw how E-Mag on/offs are shorter than Standards. Thus, I have discovered my largest issue with the system: personal ignorance.
    1)Could I simply swap my current (E-Mag) On/off pin for the regular RT pin and expect their lengths to be the only functional difference?

    2)For that matter, could I just order a RT assembly and pop it right in with some lube, and have it fit?

    3) Is there any way I can order a replacement On/off main housing so that I can install the ULT kit?
    1) Yes
    2) Yes
    3) No, but there are people who can mod that valve to take ULT.

    IIRC: some emag valves can take ULT's and some can't (actually I think most can't) The way to check is to pull out your on/off and see if the part it seats against is flat or stepped. If it's stepped, you can't use an ULT, and you'll have to get your valve modded.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by roxcreek
    Thanks, I'm trying to install the RT E-Mag Valve onto a AM/MM rail, Intelliframe, Am/MM sear and ULE body. After a little research in the AGD store, I saw how E-Mag on/offs are shorter than Standards. Thus, I have discovered my largest issue with the system: personal ignorance. Could I simply swap my current (E-Mag) On/off pin for the regular RT pin and expect their lengths to be the only functional difference? For that matter, could I just order a RT assembly and pop it right in with some lube, and have it fit? Is there any way I can order a replacement On/off main housing so that I can install the ULT kit?
    Yes you can purchase a e-mag pin and just swap that out or grind your current one. No need to buy a complete assy. Like vf said those valves won't work with the ULT unless modded by Luke or who ever else does it. You'll be risking the valve tho.

    Your question about purchasing a housing...Hmmm...Just get a X valve and you'll be G2G (good too go)

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ando
    Yes you can purchase a e-mag pin and just swap that out or grind your current one. No need to buy a complete assy. Like vf said those valves won't work with the ULT unless modded by Luke or who ever else does it. You'll be risking the valve tho.

    Your question about purchasing a housing...Hmmm...Just get a X valve and you'll be G2G (good too go)
    Don't think you'll be risking the valve. I have a modded ReTro valve (same as the emag valve) and it runs a ULT just fine. Has for years.

  18. #18
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    right now, I'm trying to trade out this valve for an X or an RT in the BST section here on AO.

    Ando, I unfortunately could not just grind down the pin because it is already shorter than a standard (RTs are .750, e-mags are .712) that would be really nice though. I think trading is my best bet now becasue I don't want to ruin a perfectly good piece of AGD tech when they're already hard to find.

    Thanks for all the help you guys, I'm still learning, but I certainly have come a long way.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by roxcreek
    right now, I'm trying to trade out this valve for an X or an RT in the BST section here on AO.

    Ando, I unfortunately could not just grind down the pin because it is already shorter than a standard (RTs are .750, e-mags are .712) that would be really nice though. I think trading is my best bet now becasue I don't want to ruin a perfectly good piece of AGD tech when they're already hard to find.

    Thanks for all the help you guys, I'm still learning, but I certainly have come a long way.
    I'm sure Tuna or someone else can sell you an on/off pin for a small amount of money.

    Don't bother with the ULT, you'll catch the pneu bug soon, buy a cheater and have to switch back to an RT on/off anyway

  20. #20
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    Wait a min you are trying to put a emag valve into a am/mm rail ? if so the rt on/off should work just fine . Try putting the valve with what you had set up before (level 10 wise) and pull the trigger if the leak stops then your level 10 is the leak source, if it continues to leak check your on/off rings. On a side note does the gun "cock" when you apply air pressure to it.

  21. #21
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    the main problems I am encountering now are that when I gas it up, the sear aplies pressure to the trigger, but I cannot pull the trigger far enough to get the forward power tube holding area to gas up (the trigger has pressure on it but I can't get it to fire). The other issue has been during the scarce moments I can get the bolt to pressurize: There is an bsence of necessary pressure to get the bolt to travel all the way forward, so it chuffs prematurely, and without a blockage.

    The Minimag Valve is compatiable with the ULT right? I've got a whole nother trail of issues going off with this direction.

  22. #22
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    No, ULT's only work in RT style valves.

    Yes, it does sound like your RT on/off pin is too short, but if you get a full length pin (which is cheap) you should be fine.

    Couple of things that can cause the bolt to do that. First question is: what carrier are you on, and what spring?

  23. #23
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    I've had the bolt on the 2.0 carrier and the .5 carrier and both produced the same result, i've also tested with multiple shim levels. I think I mostly need to get past the "pin-is-too-short" part before I need to be worrying about the lvl 10 tuning issues, because I know for a fact that the pin is too short for now.

  24. #24
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    WTH...your pin is below .712? Who butchered that? Get yourself a new pin and I bet all your problems will be fixed. If your going to buy a new one. Might as well buy one for both mec and e-mag lengths.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ando
    WTH...your pin is below .712? Who butchered that? Get yourself a new pin and I bet all your problems will be fixed. If your going to buy a new one. Might as well buy one for both mec and e-mag lengths.

    what? I said the mine is currently at .712, which is too short for mechanical operation.

  26. #26
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    I for some reason thought you were trying to install this on a set of E-Lowers...lol...

    Just buy a pin bro. You'll be waiting for a while trying to get your valve swapped.

  27. #27
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    Good point, I wish they sold just the pins, I don't want to have to spend 35 on a whole new assy.

  28. #28
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    give Tuna an email.

    i'm sure he's got one, or can get one.

  29. #29
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by maniacmechanic
    QFT

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