Page 10 of 26 FirstFirst ... 6789101112131420 ... LastLast
Results 271 to 300 of 777

Thread: Tactical Automag prototype thread. Please help.

  1. #271
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    303
    Quote Originally Posted by famousgamer
    LOL. It should be a VISA type ad after we get something built.

    Speaking of which, I am actually still torn on which mag to get? E-mag, rt ule custom, or start with a pro classic and work my way up?! Ugh. Help.
    I was thinking the same thing. I first bought the TacOne and loved it. Sweetest mech trigger I can think of for woodsball. But then I tried an E Mag and was so impressed that I had to have that in "Tac Form". To be honest, if all I can have is just one -- I'd without doubt save up for the E Tac. Has to be the ultimate Senario/woodsball rig IMO.

    It does get a little heavy when you start bolting on all the goodies, but its still within comfortable limits. The added firepower can really go a long way when those pesky space guns show up for woodsball duty -- A work in progress:

    http://www.pbownersgroup.com/forum/m...&threadid=4278

    HLD...

  2. #272
    Dude. I am all about that E TAC, but SO MUCH MONEYS! I am SCURRED!

    I love the TAC ONE, and the Emags. Ugh. I am gonna have to save a little more I think. I am renovating my home, and that aint cheap.

    Check out this design...



    yikes. no mask clearance. Need to use an offset. TAC ONE already has one! drool. Best suited on the concept warp right TAC ONE body. I wish! Well, I can dream cant I?

  3. #273
    umm, wait a second. Do i need an agitating hopper, or is a regular non-agitating one enough to get the balls in there? Does anyone every use a regular hooper with warp?

  4. #274


    If I need to use an agitating hopper, this is what I get. Id rather it not agite, if at all possible. Uses up so much room.

  5. #275
    I dunno. Here is a full unmodified ricochet hopper, cept for the front part is cut down. It then has an elbow attached and feeds as per usual. The stock attached to the marker just cradles the hopper. Can be made to be perfectly snug. Just another idea.


  6. #276
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Clayton, NC
    Posts
    315
    Is it just me or has the conversation COMPLETELY diverted from some of the previous standards that were being discussed?

    Mask/Stock clearance
    Use of batteries. As in not requiring them.
    Line-of-sight on the scope.

    The recent above pictures have none of that.

    Also, while I think the hopper-stock is interesting, I don't think it's very practical. Maintenance and cleaning an internal break would take, I think, a significantly long time.

    The previous designs were extremely appealing to me because they were functional in ever way. It just seems this latest batch are more exploratory without considering functionality.
    Lvl X TKO Automag PF/HL, Intelliframe, a Simmons 30mm Red Dot and a J&J 12" Ceramic barrel.
    Crossfire 68/4500
    -------------------------------------
    Die Hard Woods Player

  7. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Severe
    Is it just me or has the conversation COMPLETELY diverted from some of the previous standards that were being discussed?

    Mask/Stock clearance
    Use of batteries. As in not requiring them.
    Line-of-sight on the scope.

    The recent above pictures have none of that.

    Also, while I think the hopper-stock is interesting, I don't think it's very practical. Maintenance and cleaning an internal break would take, I think, a significantly long time.

    The previous designs were extremely appealing to me because they were functional in ever way. It just seems this latest batch are more exploratory without considering functionality.
    LOL. True. These really deviate, but that is kinda my design style. I like to get close to the end, just to do doughnuts at the finsh line. That warp thing might have certain advantages, but I am not really seeing many.

    For comparison purposes...


    I am getting pretty stoked about building one of these. That Q stock is kinda ugly still, tho I dont mind too much. What should I do for the foregrip?

  8. #278

    Some replies

    Famousgamer,

    i applaud you for creating new designs and getting peoples creative spark going. The following questions/attacks I have replied to below:

    One thing I am an expert in is plastic injection molding, as it relates to wargame miniature production (my job). Those plastic stocks that Spec Ops sells for 100 a pop cost about 2 dollars in materials, maybe 5 more in labor and maximum 10 dollars for manufacturing.
    Once the mold is setup then things are cheap to produce however to start up a mold it is a lot and is why you see big companies private label TAPCO brand stocks as their own because they FREAK OUT at what molds cost and are unwilling to do it. There is a "break even" point on product from when you finally sell enough to pay for R&D and mold costs. Paintball is a sport that updates gear pretty quickly however in the firearm/airsoft sector if you made a mold for an M-16 you can count on that design being around for a while for people to buy! So we make a mold but expect that within 4-5 years it will be obsolete and little demand will be present for it.

    There currently is no other paintball company out there making their own molds for buttstocks. They are all airsoft stuff modded for paintball, or real firearm stuff modded for paintball.

    Assembly and testing is a large part of our cost as we DO import our plastics however assembly and testing cost more than actually making the product as that is all domestic labor. We do not currently trust overseas labor to ship us inspected product ready to sell w/out our final approval. So if you need a "reason" for why our stuff is more than QUALITY airsoft stuff then there is your answer: Domestic assembly labor.

    Product arrives (shipping cost)
    product inspected/counted (labor)
    product entered into inventory (labor)
    product assembled with all fittings (labor)
    leak checked (labor)
    packaged (labor)
    put on shelf for shipping (labor)
    product put in box to ship to customer (labor)

    Hobbies are expensive, yes. Plastic injection molding are not.
    Dude... lol. Molds. Know what it cost a Paintball Mask company to make a mold for a new mask including R&D? About $300,000.00(this is actual information a I just toured this companies factory however I wont mention who it is) ,that's right folks over a quarter million. That's easy to digest if they know the mask is going to be a hit. If not? SCARY. Same applies to other molds, the initial investment is scary because if the product flops your SCREWED. Suddenly when people ask "why is the JT Flex 7 mask been around so long with out and update till recently?" Well it's a decent mask yes... but if sales are good then why eat up profits with having to make a new mold? buttstock molds are not nearly that expensive but they are in the tens of thousands.

    Actually, I find Spec Ops no more noble than any other Mil Sim type paintball retailer. They have a forum. They have some flash animations. Its all gimmicks.
    The brigade and game locator are tools that we KNOW for a fact have grown our sport and provided a way for players to get games going that would have not otherwise ever been possible (we get e-mails all the time from thankful folks). Just because it's something you don't use (or perhaps may not know about or clearly understand) does not make it a "gimmick". Although that realization right there clears up a lot about your comments.

    Anyways, I digress:

    Inject plastic into a mold. Install macro hosing and hardware. Put it in a box. Charge 100 dollars. That for me does no compute. I know the plastic manufacturing industry. The exact same process that goes into making a body for a 30-dollar airsoft gun is what is used to make a 100-dollar Spec Ops stock, and that upsets me. How bout you?
    Airsoft is a bigger market with the majority of product coming from oversee's. Airsoft also has the advantage of a bigger global market, start to finish R&D and delivery to the customer or supplier direct from oversees. Paintball is American born/bread and will for quite a while remain the global leader in development and production of paintball goods... which again makes the cost of all things with ANY domestic labor involved much more expensive. I wish paintball was bigger globally so we could sell more of our product and lower our prices as well. It's happening, slowly, as is more sophisticated manufacturing oversee's as well! (the industry is working on it)

    Am I paying for domestic manufacturing? Is Spec Ops made in the USA? If there was a Spec Ops China division would their parts be a quarter of the price and the same quality? These are the kinds of questions I ask when I see a 100 dollar price tag on a plastic stock.
    All of our machined stuff, design and development is done here. Plastic production is oversees however all assembly and final testing is done here. Global economy is pretty crazy right now and it will be interesting to see what the US does with the whole "CHINA" issue. American consumers hate paying for their own people to make a product for them to use. (you). However, this presents a challenge for domestic laborers to be paid decently. Design and innovation is what the USA does best right now, however not everybody can design cool stuff.. But just about everybody can put it together, however not for the price China can do it. America, we have a problem, enjoy cheap goods while we can, but we may pay dearly for it down the road.

    At specops we kind of do a hybridization of both for now: a little china and a little domestic

    What am I paying for? A Spec Ops logo? I personally dislike pimping anyones brand name or symbol unless I am sponsored. I also dislike paying extra for a brand name.
    We don't expect everybody to "get it".

    And wait a tick... if there are so many Spec Ops representitives on this thread, can you please explain the logic behind the Longbow stock being so high? That poor design is really the primer for this whole discussion. Did you not realize the whole mask thing? You know, you can get that whole "snap up" to position thing with the stock a few inches lower. Did you realize that while you were trying to capture the whole "realistic gun" vibe you actually put the barrel beneath the top line of the stock, making that configuration unlike ANY gun out there?
    Just me, one of the owners. It's expensive to make, lots of parts. Some of our stuff IS expensive for sure, but not w/out it being expensive for us to make it first. If you have ever seen one in real life you would know why. People don't HAVE to buy it. And regarding your comment on "unlike any other gun out there?" We have a couple of different mod philosophies.
    1. make it look real but make sense to paintball as much as possible.
    2. Borrow ergonomics from real guns where it makes sense and then do what makes sense for paintball everywhere else.

    Example of #1= A5A2
    Example of #2= Blackcell ion, Longbow

    Of course we took into consideration the whole mask thing. However you will see a whole different line of buttstocks launched for peoples personal preference... such as the dogleg and more to follow.

    here is a picture of ME PERSONALLY shooting my Q-BOW at the Camp Blanding Scenario game in Florida.

    Buttstock is in nice and tight on my shoulder, sighting through my holo sight perfectly. My neck is not strained and the bracing point on my v-force mask is PERFECT (for me) as if I cannot rest my mask against my buttstock it takes me a split second longer to acquier my holo sight cross-hairs and get them on target. My shooting background is based on real firearms so I prefer bracing my mask against a buttstock rather than have it "float" around trying to find my site. With a buttstock down lower and no place to brace a mask against it would typically take a person a split second longer to find their sight and put it on target with out that "brace spot". Not a big deal but something I have noticed when shooting old school markers (when buttstocks designed around a tank down low on the back was pretty common).

    So, our design works great for some however it's not perfect for all that is something I agree with. However you attack us like it's poor design, when in fact perhaps it's just not for you. There is a difference.

    Anyways, paintball shouldnt cost that much. I envy airsoft players. Would be nice to pay those prices. They prolly look at us going "what makes your markers so expensive?". All we can say in reply is "Who knows?"
    Buy a brass eagle and some 12 grams, tell those air soft guys where to stick it!

    It is kinda weird that you guys are freakin about the airsoft thing, and totally forgetting about the Longbow configuration. Maybe I hit a nerve? Maybe I hit upon something that is in fact the very marrow of the Spec Ops buisiness machine?
    We just want to be clear about it. That's all.

    I am seriously worried that another company will just come along and make that same stuff for cheaper
    I am sure they will, and indeed "cheaper" it will be. Perhaps you should give it a shot.

    Did you know that if you were to take the exposure from the Cell and put it up instead of down it may as well have a hopper on the top? Seems kinda silly to go through all that effort to lower the profile, and then you got to get that Q Loader over cover to brace it and fire, effectivle removing all that clearance. If the cover is in front of the user, and the marker is not braced for stability, then this is not an issue.
    Depends on the situation that a player finds himself or herself in most often. For those that play in natural wooded fields or area's w/out much man made cover they will be in a prone unsupported position (until cover is blown) and not having a hopper at "periscope depth" is nice. Personally my favorite thing about not having a hopper on top has to do with nice clear view w/out blind spots. Again... preference, may not work for you but it may work for others.

    I would like to say a prayer now. Please God, let AGD make a really nice milsim woodsball marker with the stock as a hopper, fed by a warp drive motor. It would be so rad, and really AGD. It would then slay all other woodsball markers that requires hundreds of dollards of after-market upgrades.
    Wont happen anytime soon they are hurting bad, but I wish they would.

    In closing pardon my rib shots however I am passionate about paintball and passionate about our company. Very few paintball company owners would care to comment much at length if at all however we do. Again I respect and appreciate all your designs (and all you others out there contributing) and you will be satisfied much more as we develop more and bring to market stuff that suits perhaps even YOU. We aim to please, but then again we also aim to innovate. And when people get this pissed off about something we made and people are buying up faster then we can make, then we know we are on the right track.

    Cheers.
    Rory McCarthy

    AIM/Yahoo = IrishPipes79
    Roryshouse@hotmail.com

  9. #279
    WOOHOO and that is my Orbium on it LOL Go gettem Rory

  10. #280
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    BROOKLYN NYC
    Posts
    269
    Good post. thanks for the picture of you holding your q bow. now since we are taliking about the sighting issue the longbow does not comes with any of the risers that you have shown on your qbow so how much would all that run? or do you have a link to the risers you are useing

    i thnk most guys want a lower profile than what you are showing /offering i thank you for your comments and opnions.




    I would like to say a prayer now. Please God, let AGD make a really nice milsim woodsball marker with the stock as a hopper, fed by a warp drive motor. It would be so rad, and really AGD. It would then slay all other woodsball markers that requires hundreds of dollards of after-market upgrades.

    Wont happen anytime soon they are hurting bad, but I wish they would.
    thats not good to hear. thats why you made longbow verions of the ion? because you feel agd may not be around long enough? if thats the case i have a classic just like my friends vm68 i just hope somebody make spare parts i may go and buy a back up bolt just in case.
    BACK IN THE GAME.


  11. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by LONEWOLFOO1
    Good post. thanks for the picture of you holding your q bow. now since we are taliking about the sighting issue the longbow does not comes with any of the risers that you have shown on your qbow so how much would all that run? or do you have a link to the risers you are useing

    i thnk most guys want a lower profile than what you are showing /offering i thank you for your comments and opnions.

    thats not good to hear. thats why you made longbow verions of the ion? because you feel agd may not be around long enough? if thats the case i have a classic just like my friends vm68 i just hope somebody make spare parts i may go and buy a back up bolt just in case.

    There are no risers, just a Hakko Bed 24 holo sight on it and any other dot sight would give you roughly the same dimension. The picture that the guy posted with the kid's head all crooked is trying to sight down the weaver rails I suppose... He would not look so and uncomfortable if he put a sight on there as intended. The weaver rail on (below the sight pictured) it comes with all longbow's or q-bows. Actually the weaver rail has "longbow" or "Qbow" cnc machined into the weaver rail.

    For the spirit of contributing to sighting examples here is me shooting an m-16 at ft lewis washington a couple summers back. Notice how I brace my cheek on the stock so ensure a consistant sight picture every time. Some people put ther nose on the charging handle as well. If one grabs my vforce mask they will notice a little "rub" where I brace my mask against the buttstock.


    as another option on our q-bow longbow, we could perhaps come up with a lower mountig spot for the buttstock for those who like more clearance. We designed the longbow to be built up a variety of ways as modularity is king in paintball. First, we need to make sure the tac one is going to be around!

  12. #282
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    BROOKLYN NYC
    Posts
    269
    weaver rails comes with longbow/qbow complete or in the kit because if thats the case i order a longbow kit and did not recieve no weaver rails. i still have'nt put any of it together there killing me at work. soon as i done i post pics promise when i don't know.

  13. #283
    the kit does not come with a weaver rail(stupid right?)however the "complete" gun does. I talked to my machining department and we will get that fixed. When we first launched this kit we did not make our own weaver however now we do so we can adjust the price of the kit and include the rail. You can buy a JCS one and mount it on there and soon we will make ours available to sell separate as well. Thanks for pointing that out.

  14. #284
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kodiak, Alaska
    Posts
    680
    Quote Originally Posted by famousgamer
    LOL. True. These really deviate, but that is kinda my design style. I like to get close to the end, just to do doughnuts at the finsh line. That warp thing might have certain advantages, but I am not really seeing many.

    For comparison purposes...


    I am getting pretty stoked about building one of these. That Q stock is kinda ugly still, tho I dont mind too much. What should I do for the foregrip?

    i really like this design but there is one thing that bothers me. its a great shooting platform (as far as i can tell) but what about walking. i used to us an a-5 w/ jcs combat stock, and when i was walking i would hold it w/ one hand an use the other to clear brush. but i would push back with my gun arm and put pressure on my sholder w/ the stock to hold the gun up.
    w/ your design it looks like all the weight would all be on your hand. i think maby if you angled the but plate a little more down to the ground the shoulder could take some more of the weight.

    thats on solution but their might be others... or this might not be a very big problem at all...
    just my contrabution.
    t

  15. #285
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Madison, AL
    Posts
    52

  16. #286
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    303
    Quote Originally Posted by Spec.Ops1
    Hi Rory -- never knew you were in the Military -- I'm thinking National Guard from the looks of the M16A1. BTW -- as you have read, there are many opinions here. IMO, many of them are not so much anti SpecOps, but more along the line of the spirit of invention. To me, improving on a marker to suit ones needs is almost as fun as the sport itself. During my run with N.J.T.A.G. I have come to appreciate the quality of your product line . Ryan introduced me to the SpecOps brand, and your product will always have a place in my gear bag. You get what you pay for.

    HLD...

  17. #287
    Dont let that pic fool ya. He is just a big teddy bear Besides Miles gear dont count LOL

  18. #288
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    UC Santa Barbara
    Posts
    459
    Quote Originally Posted by Spec.Ops1


    here is a picture of ME PERSONALLY shooting my Q-BOW at the Camp Blanding Scenario game in Florida.

    All that camo, and you still got a nice orange nob on your remote line.



    anyways, i'm glad to see were finnally playing a little nicer.

    I really doubt AGD would go completely under, ever. Even if they downsized to a small shop that only made replacement parts. plus, I'd think the tac-one would be more durable than the ion anyways.

    ... so make more Longbow mods for more peoples preferences!



  19. #289
    spec ops very well writen bravo
    professional and not flaming i say good form

    good idea bout offering offsets for the stock that is all tha is needed
    maybe you could make the little adapter part for the emag and classic mag to attatch your stock to the regular gun that would be cool and you wouldsell more stocks

  20. #290
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Chicago, home of the unBEARables
    Posts
    1,497
    Quote Originally Posted by famousgamer
    As far as the 6 holes on the RT rail... they are not all aligned straight. It kind of steps out three times. Ths is not to say that a good machinist could not match these steps with an adapter peice, but it makes it tougher.

    The RT rail would be nice to use, except for a few reasons: Firstly, we do not know if we can even drill through the back end of the RT rail into the stock adapter peice, for added stability (and looks). We know we CAN with the original style frame.

    Also, we know that we can use the front end hole (used for the front grip, gas thru grip and grip extention peice) to build of off. On the RT we have to rely either on the front three screws, or the grip holder peice that is supplied with the RT marker. Bother of which just arent as easy as using the already usable hole in the front of the original frame.
    You can drill holes in the back of a RT Pro rail. On the original RT's I wouldn't as there are 2 air passages that run lengthwise through the rear portion of the rail (to feed the 6 side mounted air accessory ports). You could drill holes through the back of an E-Mag rail as well, however as the rear portion of it is angled, you'd need some sort of adapter plate to connect the 'base' version of your RT Pro stock (in whatever form it takes) to an E-Mag.

    In addition to the 6 holes for mounting the (formerly) stock foregrip, the front portion of the RT Pro (and E-Mag) rail has a vertical hole for mounting a foregrip just like the Auto/MiniMags do. So I'd suggest planning on utilizing the vertical hole rather than the 6 screw holes at the front of the RT Pro rail so that your setup will work on both an RT Pro and an E-Mag.


    Quote Originally Posted by craltal
    As for the warp question, you are looking at carrying 3-4 9V batteries, 2 in the loader and 1-2 in the warp. You have 2 separate and distinct motors running, so there is a good bit of noise
    You're not going to hear the sound of the Warp functioning over the sound of your gun firing. Personally, I put 2 batteries inside my Warps. The fit is snug, so there's very little (if any) rattling of batteries. If there is, it's not enough for me to notice.
    Last edited by Gunga; 02-09-2006 at 08:30 PM.

  21. #291
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    BROOKLYN NYC
    Posts
    269
    spec ops1 i just wanted to know how in the hell you get the silver tabs off on the tac one i am making a q bow for myself and how is progress with the offset stock adapter.

  22. #292
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    BROOKLYN NYC
    Posts
    269
    OK guys i finally got the longbow and with my jt mask on its very tight the picture i posted should be the reccomened height of the lobgbow.

    beleive me spec ops i tried to hold it against me but the stock is to short and with it mounted correctly it very uncomfortable i need a bracket made to put the stock lower. so this is coming from the guys that kicked out 300 for this kit.

    maybe with a v force mask it be better on the head but why should i i like jt products better



    Last edited by LONEWOLFOO1; 02-19-2006 at 07:25 PM.

  23. #293
    I can not say I am suprised in the least.

    First off, that marker is gonna slay. That Longbow kit does look excellent, and it is gonna rip. It is interesting how you hinged the stock on the lower screw. Does it hold into place like that?

    You are right on about the "plates" that can be used to lower the stock, and extend it for taller people. Those plates would be so easy to make, and I hope you can get a machinist to make you some Lonewolf.

    I am really interesting in seeing pictures of you with that stock shouldered! See if you can get a friend to take some pics, if it is not too much trouble.

    Thanks Lonewolf for posting your findings here, with an un-biased perspective. If anyone can machine, or knows information on getting those "plates" machined, please contribute that info here. Thanks.

  24. #294
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    BROOKLYN NYC
    Posts
    269
    no it swings back and forth but i wouldlike it lowered one inch and pushed back on inch i bought a dye mask and they do make a difference but that would be a addition cost to the end user when i shoulder it i have to bent my head to look down the sight. i could shoulder it higher but why have the stock there.

    if i was to put the shoulder stock on my shoulder where it is suppose to be i will really have to bend my head to look down the barrel i will be messing with it for a couple of weeks and look for a machine person hopefully to make me a part.

  25. #295
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    michigan.
    Posts
    772
    that crossman stock looks like it may actually fit as a replacement for the grips on a cf single trigger frame.

  26. #296
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Moses Lake
    Posts
    1,116
    It looks good man. I have never done a scenario, but Im dying to try one with my Minimag some day. Im excited to see what it looks like with the Longbow kit.

  27. #297
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    BROOKLYN NYC
    Posts
    269
    I am surprise that spec ops one didn't chime in to give his opnion on the matter.

  28. #298
    When it comes too a product that takes minimal effort to produce (like the stock plates) and provides maximum and much-needed satisfaction, its a no-brainer to me.

    I have a very strong feeling that the Longbow and its family of products are going to be ignored, not improved, as the new Black Cell will be taking the limelight. Dont forget about the Longbow owners please Spec Ops!

  29. #299
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Ocala, Florida
    Posts
    1,283
    If you got a couple of strips of sheet metal you use those until you got something custom milled. Something about an inch wide (just guessing from the picture) just drill the holes to match up the three holes (with the stock in the postion you want) and then paint it black so it doesnt look so bad (again this temporary)

  30. #300
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    BROOKLYN NYC
    Posts
    269
    I think even the black cell would have the same issues i was wondering if a m4 stock would fit back there. that would elimnate the need for a longer plate but you can make a plate just to lower the stock. when i got the longbow kit was not to be a sniper but to elimnate that dam hopper i hated the hopper. so i wanted a stock becuase i play games all day and the tank do get heavy. so in retrospec spec ops gave me what i wanted but i needs a little tinkering. i wonder why they didn't make a black cell line for the automags not everybody wants to be a sniper.

    did you guys see the sppl woodsball tournment? the longbow needs to be more flexiable. i guess i need more of a rifle man setup
    Last edited by LONEWOLFOO1; 02-26-2006 at 07:45 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •