03-31-2006, 07:57 AM
03-31-2006, 12:42 PM
Since i am home today fildling aroundwith my longbow i found some old automag parts and look at what i found
i call it the end all solution to my longbow sighting shrug neck problem with a total i repeat total of 5 inches from the shroud to the top of the red dot sight. a total of 3 inches from the bottom of the red dot sight to the longbow frame. so its a total of 3 inches that can be manipluted between the sight and the frame so half of that is 1.5 inches varient which could be done with the lowering of the stock. think about that
03-31-2006, 05:54 PM
Sweet. Is there any way to weld them together, or use rods on either side welded in for support? I bet Silentmike or Doc could weld that in 5 seconds and youd have a great stock mounting bracket. Thanks for all the pics, measurements and info LONEWOLF.
Originally Posted by LONEWOLFOO1
I personally think that Longbow looks excellent with the lower stock and that feirce warp feed! 200 rounds at the ready, flung with a lvl 10 and x valve. Wicked!
03-31-2006, 06:27 PM
Whoa... check this out.
I was pretty interested in your findings LONEWOLF, and wanted to see if your stock placement and raised red dot spot were similar to my design... and it is almost exactly the same! See for yourself..
The buttplate and the sight line are almost exactly the same. The mask clearance area is almost the same as well. The only difference is where the grips are, the barrel location, and the ground clearance.
The lower photoshopped Longbow is with a warp body. See how that warp body and that new stock solve every comfort issuse (besides adjustability). If the stock was adjustable, that would be the package. That lower drawing is the same tac one, but with way more comfort and a much lower profile. In conjunction with the Q loader, warp feed, and even the mag clip system it would simply be better to go with warp.
Now, if the Tac rails are not even really being utilized on the Longbow, why is it a Tac One body? Why not a ULE warp body? Hopefully someone catches on and produces this rifle mag... and hopefully the Q gets fit under the stock. I have a pretty strong feeling that this could be the format that would take the sniper marker into the next generation.
03-31-2006, 06:33 PM
i was looking around on the spec ops forums and their is a guy holding a longbow and guess what his head is bent just in case you guy thought my pics where off
03-31-2006, 06:38 PM
I just had my 68 ci tank mounted in my back bottle adapter, and the 140 pod taped to the bottom of the tank. It actually worked pretty well. I was suprosed.
I am just kinda bummed about the weight on the back of the marker tho as that tank is perdy big. With the rhino tank cover on tho it shoulders up really nice tho.
After a little aluminum rod bending you could make a nice bracket for the Q under the tank, and that would be a very tight setup for sure. Ill take pics as soon as I can, for any prospective tank-on players.
03-31-2006, 06:41 PM
yeah, that head is hella bent. Simply would not want to play paintball like that all day. What we dont see is that his head is flush to the top bar of the stock, and allows for no extra head mobility.
Originally Posted by LONEWOLFOO1
I strongly dislike "stock weld" when my stock is welded to a mask and the marker has little to no recoil to require a weld in the first place. Paintball stocks and rifle stocks just require two different sets of shapes and attributes.
That Longbow looks killer tho. That camo is sweet! The ironic thing is that that camo would have hardly any effect, as there are so many black pits and hard outline shapes to the Longbow in the first place, and its big. You would need a rag to breakup that shape and black pits, because the human eye would pick that thing up in a glance.
04-02-2006, 01:49 AM
famous an idea for your remote line on the t stock
that way the remote ends under your arm and is more confortible
i know the padding is getto but i wanted the stock to be wider
04-02-2006, 04:39 AM
The remote line ending under the arm is much better, I agree. Thats one of the things I dislike about this gas thru t stock... the nipple is close to the marker. The good news is that if for any reason you were laying down and the marker was right down on the ground, the nipple wouldnt hit the ground on the t stock. Id still rather have it like yours tho feind.
You could actually add a macro line from the nipple to the buttplate. Now that would be nice! I am gonna look into that.
Okay, so I was trying to decide how to sculpt my marker when it hit me...
I was watching Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex and thought "Those guns rock!". They really do. Masamune Shirow is a genius, and his tech is simply amazing. Not only are his designs excellent to look at, but they are comfy to boot!
I tried to figure how to impliment my fave Seburo weapon design into my own marker concept, and this is what I came up with...
I call it the Pragmata, and I am seriously leaning towards using this design. I call it the Pragmata because the design is quite simply pragmatic.
prag·mat·ic Pronunciation Key (prg-mtk)
1. Dealing or concerned with facts or actual occurrences; practical.
2. Philosophy. Of or relating to pragmatism.
3. Relating to or being the study of cause and effect in historical or political events with emphasis on the practical lessons to be learned from them.
Basicly, this marker is realistic, and is not full of crap or gimmicks. It is totally user friendly. Its design is based on facts adn lessons learned, so Pragmata seems very accurate to me.
The front grip is theoreticly the perfect paintball sniper grip, as it has elements of a rifle handguard and a vert foregrip. Should be really comfy, but this is still only a theory.
I lowered the profile of the buttplate assembly, for obvious reasons, and lowered the entire stock for mask clearance. The gripframe grips would also have to be sculpted.
The good news is that these flowing organic shapes are much easier to sculpt, as opposed to all those straight lines.
This markers look really reflects is journey... it look s like the total outsider! Really unique and exotic, and I think this going to be the basis for my snipermag.
The bummer is I cant start building it until I get my ULE frame and Q Loader, but they are both in the mail and on their way. Anyone got a spare CMS adapter? Hehe, I need to get one of those as well.
04-02-2006, 05:00 AM
i think the top one looks better but the barrel shround needs to be a little shorter....say one that length and a spare that is the length of only one filter
also what if you feel like running the warp feed some time...different kits for different days
by the way I AM SILL BANNED FROM SPECIAL OPS
04-02-2006, 05:02 AM
That design uses two filters for the silencer. One might work pretty well. One can cover all the porting and about three inches past, with a J&J 14 inch. Two is just for super silence and good measure. It is heavy tho and very long, but vewy vewy quiet. Its wabbit huntin' season!
And here is the Pragmata compact, using the freak barrel back and short front tip...
This would be nice in a tight spot. I gotta get that freak back and small tip for this configuration. So bullpup...py? Bullpuppy?
It is shown there with the warp feed 90* adapter and the hose going into the Q Loader. In a word: tight.
I also has modified the bottom part of the shell near the Q Loader bottom. Small detail.
Making it work with the warp is an excellent idea Feind. Will work on that ASAP.
Im banned from the Spec Ops boards until October 2007, no joke! Hehe, what clownshoes.
Last edited by famousgamer; 04-02-2006 at 05:09 AM.
04-02-2006, 05:26 AM
How about this?
Maybe some people prefer to shoot in that Longbow shooting position, and wear their paint under their barrel? Fair enough. Ill tell ya tho, after wearing the paint in the stock you will seriously have to think twice about exposing your paint again.
Here is a cutaway pic so you can clearly see the difference in shooting postures.
Last edited by famousgamer; 04-02-2006 at 05:39 AM.
04-02-2006, 06:15 AM
famousgamer - That is an awesome design. I really want to see you make that, I can't think of anything better. A while back I was thinking about carving a P90-style stock out of wood for my Minimag and drilling something out for the trigger, but I abandoned the idea because of lack of mask clearence. Your design is the step I should have taken; it looks damn good, dude.
Hey, while we're at this - you gotta post some silencer videos or sound clips. I want to hear how effective this thing is. The tell us how you did it. I gotta make a trip to the hardware store soon. Minimag with 10-round tubes and a *ahem* mock surpressor...
04-02-2006, 04:51 PM
You can count on it. I have Soundforge loaded on my computer, and I can show a wavelength of the sound reoprt, as well as wav. files for both side by side. The only bad thing is that the only sound recording device I have is a dictaphone, but it can do a fairly good job.
I will just measure out the distances, keep the exact same dictaphone mic and firing angles, and make sure all the evidence is empirical.
Lets not get into details about "rain guards" tho, or else this thread will turn into all the other where people talk about them. Debates about laws, etc. Boring. I am gonna just post the findings on my own website when Im done, and Ill send the link out.
I woke up this morning with an interesting idea. I am going to illustrate them and show them later, if all goes well.
04-02-2006, 06:07 PM
Okay, check this out...
After those little metal peices are made, you just screw on the shroud peices like the gripframe handgrips screw into the gripframe. Lateral screws hold them into place. Then the plates, or shroud gets hand sculpted and cast. It can be cast in a rubbery material, like the rubber on a VForce mask. How sweet would that be.
If anyone takes this idea, please mail me a copy. Thanks. Im serious. No, really.
I also made a fun air-on version.
I gotta tell you, those Rhinos do an amazing job as buttplates. I like them better than rifle style buttplates in fact, when they are in the right spot. You do loose mask clearacnce with this configuration. I tried it with my 68 ci bottle in my back bottle adapter. It is also really back heavy.
The good news is that it is comfy once it is shouldered, and is so tight you will probably on get hit on the marker a quarter of the times you are used to. If you wanted to not use a red dot, and to rely on mobility and natural sight lines, this is the configuration for you.
04-02-2006, 06:18 PM
To whom it may concern...
If you are in charge of development for Airgun Designs, please hire me to sculpt this marker concept, so you may then provide it to the masses.
It would probably be a nice way to move those single trigger carbon fiber gripframes, old school rails, AIR valves, back bottle adapters and warp bodies. Thise are 4 items that are probably pretty tricky to sell in the first place, and all 4 are used in this one marker! It even uses your warp adapter.
So, please consider my offer. I can provide and extensive resume and work history regarding design, sculpting, and manufacturing. Thanks.
04-02-2006, 10:03 PM
Just took my mag apart, and I am making list of stuff to get from the Home Depot. I am gonna build the front grip first, and worry about the other stuff when the Q Loader and warp body get here.
I have decided not to go with metal cores and sculpt around them. I have decided to make my parts just like the carbon fiber gripframe and its panels. I am going to buy all the conjoining hardware (nuts and bolt receivers, etc.) and just sculpt around those. Then I can cast the parts I sculpt, and just plop the hardware in each cast for strength. Takes out a middleman, and is more in keeping with how the AGD carbon fiber grips work.
Mags are so nice. So simple. A perfect lesson is economic design. I love mags.
04-03-2006, 01:56 AM
So, what material are you going to use for the formed parts? I can't think of anything that you can use as a one-off that would stand up to paintball abuse.
04-03-2006, 02:13 AM
More fule for the fire?
Granted these aren't with a Longbow.
Tippmann A-5, Unknown G3/MP5 style stock, BT sight rail, Blazer 42mm Red Dot.
MY head is tilted to get propper sight picture, however not nearly as badly as people using a Longbow even though I'd guess both my setup and the Longbow have a similar sight height. I dunno, it isn't impossible to get a comfy scenario rig with off the shelf bits, but I'll admit that your Seburo is pretty nifty.
Image added for refference
Last edited by VFX_Fenix; 04-03-2006 at 02:28 AM.
04-03-2006, 02:27 AM
So Spec Ops designs the A5 buttstock after the MP5...
What I dont get is why did they not account for the user having to wear a mask? Like, thats a no-brainer. I was pretty tempted to get one of those stocks on my marker untill I started seeing people sighting up with them. The least they could do is supply a riser, or an offset mount with the marker.
Its an example of looks over function. You should have gotten that sight riser for free VFX.
Thanks for the pics. The Profiler wins again. I love those masks... even in yellow.
I am right now sculpting the foregrip assembly in foam to get a feel for what works best. I will then cover the bolt receivers of the same size as the foregrip screws in a putty that dries as hard as metal. I will sculpt then around that area with an epoxy putty. Should be able to screw in and out no problem. As far as taking abuse, I personally have never broken anything made from this metal/putty before, and I doubt it will break on this marker.
04-03-2006, 02:32 AM
Ugh. Actually, I am torn.
I could just get the front peice milled to accept the screw threading, and then have lateral threading to just stick on the sculpted parts like the grip covers.
Ugh. That means sending stuff out to be milled. Anyone know where I should go for that? I guess it would not be so bad, seeing as how I have to wait for a few more things to show in the mail.
04-03-2006, 02:36 AM
That actually isn't a Spec Ops stock, I know that much for sure. SpecOps wasn't offering this style of stock when I got it. As for who actually made it I have no idea since it was purchased second hand.
The actual end intent is to build something which loosly resembles a G3 with a carry handle. The rail itself was actually given to me, so free it was.
04-03-2006, 03:03 AM
Hehe. free is good.
I find that when trying to model a paintball marker after a real gun it just ends up being a real uncomfortable paintball marker. Looks cool tho.
I am gonna take a nod from anime and the speedballers, and leave milsim out of my design for now.
I am going to try to use the vert asa adapter as my starting point for the forgrip. That peice already has the proper threading, and is an easily found product. This is gonna be tricky. I cant have it too bulging or bulky, and sculpting around the vert adapter might make it that way. Hmmm. wish I had my camera back to discribe it with pics. Ill be getting it back tommorow anyways.
04-03-2006, 05:54 PM
Hello gentleman my q loader just came in i will post pics of the postion i will put them in.
04-03-2006, 07:14 PM
Wow. I got mine today too! The gods of paintball smile upon us! The Q Loader is pretty damn impressive... and I am really taking my time getting to know it. It seems fragile, and at the same time tough as nails.
I did some mounting, did some tweeking, and put together some parts and made the coolest paintball configuration I have ever seen, let alone owned!
If pictures tell a thousands words, then here is 5000 words on why this marker is so nice...
I had to rig my stock with tape and sticks. Thats how I will be welding it into place for this particular configuration. It looks ugly, and even uncomfortable, but trust me it is perfect.
Also, you see how the Q Loader wants to droop down in that position, and not sit flush with the bottom of the gripframe? You need to bolt a zap strap to the bottom of the frame and then zap the Q into place. An easy fix, and should make it really really stable. That was the only unforseen issue I have had... so far.
I'll have my girlfriend take some pics of me sighting up with this later, for comparitive purposes. Trust me, it feels great. It is not the perfect setup, but much better than any other I have ever used. Plenty of mask room, so stable, and....
LOOK AT THAT FEILD OF VISION! It is like nothing I have ever used before. So nice! It amazes me to this day that the Longbow did not use a warp body! Lunacy!
Also, with the Q Loader centered like that it totally absorbs its weight! Dude. You gotta try this setup. You will like it, especialy for snipey stuff.
There are drawbacks tho, and still things I need to do, so dont judge to harshly just yet...
- need to re-weld stock (one weld, and two more if you use a support)
- need to remove the rubber grip off the foregrip (easily done, and easy to put back on)
- need to use electrical tape on the Q Loader bracket (easy, and reversable)
- need to brace the Q housing to the bottom of the gripframe (a warp bracket screw and a wide zap strap should work perfectly. Still gotta do mine)
- need to Dremel the edge of the Automag sight rail to fit around the macro line into the valve (easy with a Dremel, but hard if you dont have one. Not shown here cause I didnt do it yet.)
I will add a full report on this particular setup in another thread, for people that want a super Longbow at half the price. There are certain things to consider.
Also, here is my other project on the go...
Its a mask cover, that fit on a VForce Profiler, and probably most other VForce masks, tho I havent tried yet. I am going to cast about 100 in rubber and sell them. They attack with two strips of adhesive velcro which is invisible, and still allows full ventilation.
It will be done being sculpted in about a week, and will be shipped off to be cast in a few weeks. You will see them being sold on Ebay. I am gonna fully paint them as well. Hopefully whole squads or tems will get them to tell eachother apart while playing. That would look really good.
Lemme know what you think, or if you see any changes that may need to be made. Please keep in mind that I am not finished sculpting yet. Thanks.
Last edited by famousgamer; 04-03-2006 at 07:52 PM.
04-03-2006, 08:04 PM
But I aint stopping there! Here is the goal...
So, I have to get a CMS package from Q Loader, and a few other things from them as well. Mounting this in a clean and stable way is the most important thing to me.
It almost has to be as stable as the stock... becuase it pretty much IS the stock! Actually, most of the weight should avoid it, but it will get bumped and brushed up against alot.
Of course, the stock buttplate will have to be re-designed to accomidate the Q pods being sent in and out. Im gonna make a "horseshoe" stock. Should be interesting.
EDIT: A little Photoshop, and alot of sculpting... ugh
The Q loader breech and the air thru nipple are both turnable, and wont be that close to eachother. I am also gonna be fooling about with buttplate designs.
Last edited by famousgamer; 04-03-2006 at 08:22 PM.
04-03-2006, 08:08 PM
Ok people i have a problem my longbow adapter kit is not screwing in i put this post up in the spec ops forum
i just picked up a q bow adapter kit the piece in the far right bottom pic is not screwing into the gun do need to dissasble the gun i will find this hard to believe
i bought a cms kit to fiddle around with also
this is a pic of the kit the suppose to go under the barrel
i see people longbow setup with out this piece does anybody have a qbow kit with this part mounted.
04-03-2006, 08:41 PM
I just wanted to take a second to explain my rather unorthodox stock assembly...
I call it the "No Shrug" Stock!
- Eyes in the perfect spot
- Marker is half as heavy when shouldered (buttplate angle releives alot of floating weight)
- no shrugging
Since it rests on the top and front part of the shoulder, it absorbs recoil AND takes off weight from the marker. It amazes me why there are not more paintball stocks liek this. Seriously, try it with some sticks and tape. You will be amazed.
Could a design like this work for a real gun? No. Too much recoil, and the stock would slide up after each shot. With a paintball marker there is one hundreth of the recoil, so you need that much less impact to be absorbed by the shoulder.
You can also rest the weigth on the marker on the top of the should. That means you get stability, and the marker feels half as heavy when it is shouldered. I can shoulder my marker with my foregrip hand alone, and use my gripframe/trigger hand to reload and not even move my marker, with total comfort. Its a snipers dream.
The only reason I can think of why this stock is not marketed is because it does not look like a conventional stock. It looks uncomfortable when not shouldering it, but it actually follows the natural arc of the deltoid perfectly.
Anyways, Im using this and I would encourage you would-be snipers out there to at least try it out. Other stocks will seems very uncomfortable to you after using a setup like this.
Last edited by famousgamer; 04-03-2006 at 08:47 PM.
04-04-2006, 03:48 AM
I would like to point out the singular problem with this setup. It requires you to stand tall, or at least that's how it seems.
If you're ever in a situation where you'd want to be crouched down I think you'll end up with a rig that's too long in a forward leaning position.
I could be totally wrong, it's just a possibility that I think should be adressed.
Also, how did you get a white profiler?
04-04-2006, 04:15 AM
True. I even looked at that last Photoshop pic and thought "man, that stock looks a little off"
The stock is set up to be a perfect fit in a standing or crouching "un-shrugging" stance. VERY similar to how you might fire a handgun. To get low, one must put the stock forward and treat it like a speedballers air tank. Switch shooting becomes a reality in this position. So far I have enjoyed it in every stance, but you point out a very valide concern.
Also, a huge part of this design is moving the part that rests on top the shoulder to the underarm "hip shooting" position. To do this smoothly, the top is not a "t" shape, and in instead a very smooth L shape. That way, you can lower it or lift is with no snagging. Another tip taken from the round bottle end of a speedballers marker.
Knowing that I would like to retain all those speedballer moves, I am going to model the buttplate to be "sticky" like a Dye Rhino tank cover. I just love those, and will probably take one apart and use parts from one. That way, any part of the stock can rest on any part of your body for support, in almost any stance. Again, just like a speedballers air tank, only lighter and longer.
The ironic thing is that my stock actually puts the barrel closer to where it would end up if you were shooting a real rifle or assault rifle, so how you handle the marker in that position is almost exactly like you would a real firearm. The irony is that it does not look anything like a real gun, and that it the marrow of the design. It is not supposed to look like a real gun, because guns dont allow room for paintball masks, and have to absorb recoil in a totally different way. Thats the missing link. To me, this marker is more milsim than the ones with fake clips and laser beams.
The white you see on the Profiler is a base layer of white epoxy putty, called Aves Apoxie Sculpt. Its excellent stuff. I do the final detail layer with green epoxy putty, called "green stuff". It is what my girlfriend uses to sculpt miniatures with, and it holds detail very well.
The white areas follow along the parts of a Profiler that are normally colored. This way, when you add the skull mask it will be bordered by black. Should be a good look on all colors of Profiler.
Just finished the cheekbones, and tommorow I finish the chin. Will take some pics if I find the battery charger.
Last edited by famousgamer; 04-04-2006 at 04:22 AM.