Tactical Automag prototype thread. Please help.

[famousgamer]

I agree that making a marker from off-the-shelf parts is really important Lonewolf. All the sculpting I did is pretty useless if no one else can benifit from it. I personally love the "borph pattern" automag, and it is all off-the-shelf. Exploring more things of this variety would be great.

Thanks for the comments Ninja. I would post on the Spec Ops boards but I am still banned. Maybe they will un-ban me for good behaivor?



I put some MARPAT on my marker. Not the best pic, but not bad for now. A little shiny for my taste, but the spray varnish ended up a little more glossy then usual. This will tone down after a full cure time.

Changing out Q pods is really quick, solid, and easy. I have noit played a game with this configuration yet, but will do this coming weekend. The 16 inch barrel is a little clumsy and gawdy, but its not all that bad. Ill post a report after this weekend.

Tho I have made my own personal tactical automag, the search goes on! Lets all keep contributing and keep the information flowing for new readers. I am ready to start up automag numero duece!

[RT Old School]

Fantastic job famousgamer! You should really be proud. The gun looks sweet. I look forward to hearing on how it felt during play this weekend. Reading your posts has also opened my eyes to the wonders of sculpting epoxies. I spent all day yesterday reading up on the various brands. That stuff looks like it would be fun to mess around with. In regards to the vinyl marpat stickers, when and if you decide to remove a sticker, does it leave a residue on the gun or does it peel clean off? Do you need to use a solvent to get it off? My mag has a nickle grip and body, do you think it would adhere to the nickle just as well as any other surface? Perhaps you should enter your creation in the MotM contest, I'll vote for ya!

Again, great job.

[NinjaoftheNight79]

Well, according to the Special Ops forum, you are no longer banned. Try and make a post and see. I have your back this time. I think you did a good job.

[paintball_fiend]

put the rain shroud on it when you go play

[snoopay700]

Sigh, i still don't get digi-camo, it works from a far in my experiences where as i've been within around 5 feet of someone and they haven't noticed me in traditional. Oh, and don't say it's cause i haven't seen it for woods, yet, the current stuff they have is supposed to be for woods and urban.

[LONEWOLFOO1]

Yeah put a post on the spec ops forum and title it i walked the talk. you know you have my support. from a longbow owner.

[famousgamer]

Thanks guys. Ill post on the Spec Ops boards when I take some better pics. My triumphant return!

I took the marker out today, and CHOP CHOP CHOP CHOP CHOP! It was a paint blender. What a let down. Sooooooo, is it my level 10 that needs adjusting? Maybe the feild paint was that crappy?

I took the marker apart, cleaned out the gallons of goop inside, and put it back together. Oiled her up, and dry fired it thru. Now I am on my way to reading about level 10 adjusting on these here forums to see what I can do. Any tips on the subject would be great.

[RT Old School]

Well, since all your hard work with the stock didnt effect how the gun actually fired...how did it fire before today? Was this your first time out with it? Admittedly, I had my Lvl 10's tuned by people more knowledgeable than me, and I havent had any probs. They work like the charms they are. Before the Lvl 10's I had plenty of frustrating days out there with the 'mags blending paint. I know how it can be. Crappy field paint has never been an issue for me and my lvl 10's. Ive shot nearly year old paint thru mine, and as long as they stay round, they shoot. In terms of your stock, how did it feel? Were you manuverable with it? Did it hold up under the stress of play? Good luck with tuning your lvl 10.

[famousgamer]

Thanks RT. Actually, before adding the stock and stuff I had only put about an eighth of a case thru it, and it chopped about 5 balls. So, even then it was kinda choppy. I am hoping it is the level 10. The bad news is that I am clueless when it comes to the level 10, and I will need some help with it. Maybe I can mail it out or something?

This marker shoulders like a dream. I mean, it actually shoulders better then most stocks that do not even carry paint! The top hook shape actually clings to the shoulder, and takes off alot of the weight. I put a little foam rubber on the buttplate and that feels really nice. The only thing I dislike is the hose nipple placement, as I am using a pretty gnarled t-stock as the stock base. I need to get a new one.

The Q Loader can take alot of abuse. Do not let its fragile inter-workings fool you. It is tough. As long as you are sensible with it, it will not fail you. Really, the only part of this marker that gets any real abuse is the 16 inch barrel. Its just too long. 14 inch or smaller for me in the future.

Holding this marker up and sighting down it is like no other marker I have ever fired. I would suggest a warp body to anyone who is sick of looking around their feedneck. Even when the red dot is off, it feels great to look straight down the top of the marker. Aiming with this setup is fast and natural. If you have a Q Loader or a warp feed and are ready to make the change to a warp body, go for it!

You do get shot in the face more however. This is a fact. Paint shells in the mouth. Woot. Also, loading Q pods can be a real drag. Keeping paint in your Q silo is not good on a hot day as well. Find some shade. Once you get into the habit of filling pods it is not so bad, but I suggest alot of pod filling practice to the Q newbs out there. I certainly needed it.

Here are some new pics to ponder. I still am a fan of the digital camo... in case I ever get sent to an alternate reality where everything is made up of polygons and bad graphics.... my camo will keep me conealed in that alternate wacky pixely world!

[Joni]

Nice job!

LVL 10 isn't that difficult to tune. Check this page out: https://www.automags.org/resource/level10/index.shtml

With that info, it took me about 30 min to tune my lvl10 the first time I installed it. If you need help with it, just ask here, and I'm sure people will answer.

Good luck

[FinchMan]

Another thing to consider looking at is the Qloader's tension. It may be pushing the balls past the detents or not hard enough. I don't have a Qloader, so I don't know how to adjust the pressure of the spring, but I remember that it is adjustable.

Now you just need some wood grips.

[Coralis]

Another thing to consider looking at is the Qloader's tension. It may be pushing the balls past the detents or not hard enough. I don't have a Qloader, so I don't know how to adjust the pressure of the spring, but I remember that it is adjustable.

I was thinking the same thing, also you might want to check your wire/plastic nubbins I shoot a hyperframed micro mag with a level 7 and I dont chop .... much. With a single trigger I doubt you are short stroking but its possible, usually you see that with two finger trigger.

[[HS]Div]

Famous what did it take to get the tac one to feed on its side? Where did you get that from?

[FinchMan]

Famous what did it take to get the tac one to feed on its side? Where did you get that from?

He's got a warp-left ULE mainbody with a sightrail piece. It's not a tac-one body.

That also means he doesn't have wire detents. It uses the standard angel detents, thats the little nob above the breach.

I really like the final setup you're coming up with. Good work.

[Sniper1]

Famous what did it take to get the tac one to feed on its side? Where did you get that from?

thats not a Tac-one body... that a Tac One but with i belive a ULE WL body on the tac one rail (milled) and trigger frame. Soem thing iwas going to do untill i orderd the Tac One WL

[[HS]Div]

so what gun did he start with? and what were the upgrades to get it that far? What was the total cost of the project?

[DSR75]

That's a regular AGD grip frame, looks like a classic rail that's been milled for the warp left body and of course the WL body.

[famousgamer]

Thanks guys.

The good news is that I am very frugal when it comes to buyign paintball stuff, and this marker was not expensive.

I won an aution on Ebay for about $160, which gave me this:


I then bought a package deal off the same guy, and got the Black warp left ULE mainbody, the notched rail, the 200 round Q Loader, the classic foregrip and a Lapco vert adapter, and some other cool stuff like a Ricochet and a warp feed. That whole package was $200. A great package deal.

I then bought the sight rail for $10. I got the Stiffi for $80 (but a $40 J$J one peice is still pretty great too).

I actually had so many parts left over I made an entire OTHER marker, just without the bolt or valve. So, basicly two markers (one without bolt or valve) for $450.

I then added the MARPAT myself. Adhesive vinyl, and no I do not have any left for sale I also sculpted the buttstock and thumbhole from epoxy putty adn added some foam rubber. $50 in supplies, and about 5 hours of work. I got the red dot for $50 locally.

Potential changes I would make? Id shorten the barrel to 14 inches. 16 is too long in my opinion. I am even thinking baout getting the freak back and tip for kinda a bullpup look, if the games get tight. I would also make sure to get a t-stock that his very sturdy and adjustable, with no leaking. The one I use is too touchy.




So, I kinda went about it in a roundabout way, but it was not that expensive. I would suggest that if anyone wantes to recreate this marker pattern to just learn all you can about automags, and ask lots of questions on these boards. They are GIVING AWAY classic mags on Ebay, and it is a great time to buy! In fact, automags are always a great deal on Ebay.

It just sucks when you need ot troubleshoot your mag and you dont know squat about it... like me! I better go do some reading on my chop issue. Thanks for the tips guys.



I actually removed my ball detent for the MARPAT job. Maybe I didnt put it in tight enough? I am pretty sure my Q Loader tension is high enough, tho I could ramp it up a bit to make sure. The guy who originally sold me the mag claimed the level 10 was tuned, so perhaps it is outside of that after all?

[RT Old School]

As far as vinyl decals go, I did a little researching this weekend. I didnt feel that my chances were good at finding a sign shop that would scan any BDU's for me, so I looked if any companies already sell camo vinyl decals. Lo and behold a product called Camo Clad is out there. Its a camo patterend vinyl that they say will cover a myriad of outdoor equipment, shotguns included, and last years. They have about 8 pattens available, sadly none are of the digital patterns that we crave. Im still hunting for decent images that I can put on a disc and take to a shop and see what they can make for me. I was a little concerned about being turned down due to copyright laws, but an article I read today stated that since MARPAT (and I can only assume ARPAT) was created by a government employee in the performance of his regulard duties, the MARPAT pattern is considered public domain. While I do not know how that arguement will hold up in court of law, I will try and see if it holds up in the sign shop if and when I try to get some decals made. I'll post any decent images I find here if anyone wants.

[famousgamer]

Camoclad is an excellent product. It is thin and easy to shape over areas with heat. It is also quite durable and will hold up under abuse. They even use it on boat hulls! Now thats tuff.

If a company ever made a Marpat, or a knockoff camo similar to Marpat they would enjoy some serious succsess.

I hope you find a shop that can help you RT. Try talking to those little sign shops around town. Just ask if they can do a high quality color output onto a stickyback vinyl. Dont even worrk about laminiating it either. You can just get a satin clearcoat and spray your sheets with that after you get them printed to protect them. Makes it a little shiny, but its not that bad, and it really adds to the protection.

[NinjaoftheNight79]

Aren't you glad to have me around? I have actually researched an read a lot about Automags. To be honest, I was just trying to get good enough to match up with the people here on AO (I felt kinda noobish not knowing what was going on). With my own research and the help of some of the people on Special Ops Paintball's forum, I put together a thread that explains a lot about Automags. If you ever get on the Airgund Designs section of the Marker Discussion board, you might wanna check it out. Its in the stickys.

Fortunately, I have learned a lot about the Level 10. Unfortunately, I can't diagnose everything, for while I know a lot, I have not been a Mag lover for long (about half a year now). What I can do is explain to you some things that could be causing this problem. Where should I begin?

Well, since you have the Level 10 bolt, I cannot blame it on a stingy Level 7 (from what I have heard, those used to be a problem for some). In order to help you understand the problem more, maybe it would be best if we got some info out on the table. The level 10 prevents the very most of chops with a mix of differant things.

First, in comparison to the level 7 bolt, the level 10's power piston (the part that goes into the power tube) is smaller. As I am sure you know (for I assume you know a bit of physics), this creates a smaller area for the air in the chamber to push against, making its forward pressure lighter. This is variable #1 in the Level 10's anti chop. Since I doubt AGD messed up your bolt, this only matters for your own information.

The next factor in the Level 10's anti chop is a stronger spring. The stronger spring pushed back against the bolt harder, which slows down the bolt even more. Its like a teeter-totter (as Tom Kaye himself described it on some random video I saw once), the springs pressure forward reduces the bolts pressure forward. Its then a basic subtraction to find the number. What you case may be is that you have the normal gold Automag spring installed (mine came installed that way from AGD). The red spring is the actual spring that is heavier. Put that spring in, and then try it. Do note that this spring will take a bit of breaking in, and you will get some bolt stickage here and there. This is my first guess on what the problem would be.

The level 10 also reduces chops by rounding the bolts tip around the edges. If the spring didn't work, check those edges for any flaws. This would be my last guess, but it still is a possibilty. If the spring doesn't work, and the bolt has no imperfections, them post again and we will have to figure something out. Also, if I forgot to mention anything, anyone feel very free to add on. I am kinda rushed at the moment, so the chance of me leaving out a factor is slightly increased.

[LONEWOLFOO1]

Make sure you q loader winds are down to 12 if they pushed to hard they can cause the level ten to not work.

[famousgamer]

wait a tick! My Q Loader is wound to more like 15 or 16! Hmmm. That is where my troubleshooting will begin. Thanks Lonewolf. You rock. Ill let you know what happens.

[NinjaoftheNight79]

wait a tick! My Q Loader is wound to more like 15 or 16! Hmmm. That is where my troubleshooting will begin. Thanks Lonewolf. You rock. Ill let you know what happens.

Well, if that doesn't work, my Level 10 info is still there

[snoopay700]

Wow, i'm surprised to see this finished, i thought it was still all just photoshopped (that's how it was when i stopped frequenting th board). Anywho, what materials did you use to make the stock and who painted it?

[borph]

It just sucks when you need ot troubleshoot your mag and you dont know squat about it... like me! I better go do some reading on my chop issue.

I assume you've been reading this thread:
https://www.automags.org/forums/showt...ighlight=lvl10

TK made a demo video in which he placed a rolled up dollar in the feed tube, shot, and the lvl10 chuffed without even wrinkling the bill. You should be able to replicate this. Keep tuning it until you have the same sensitivity and kiss chops goodbye FOREVER!

I only prewind my Q 6 or 7 clicks and that's always been plenty for me.

[famousgamer]

Thanks for the info Ninja. You have indeed become a Magspert. (thats a mag expert)

Well Snoop, go ahead and backtrack in the thread a bit, and it will tell you all the materials and the proccess involved. Its alot of reading , but could be worth it. The short answers are: I did the camo job by using a custom printed adhesive vynil... and I hand sculpted the custom parts with Aves apoxie sculpt.

Jeez Borph. I didnt even know the Q would operate on that few prewinds. I am gonna take my pods apart and rewinf them later tonight, and see if that is the thing. I hope so, because I am miserable when it comes to the fine tuney stuff!

[LONEWOLFOO1]

you guys are not going to beleive this look at what i found

http://www.specialopspaintball.com/s...p?SKU=210+0045

i guess they have finally listen to us not bad at all i may purchase and give my full review.

[famousgamer]

I must say that that is a much greater improvement on the designs we had kicked around earlier. Its able to be switched up for a lefty, Its height/length is adjustable, it fits to the bottomline holes (not the bottomline AND rail as we had kicked around earlier in the thread). Also, it looks like the arm that holds the stock up does not block your hand, but rather go around it.

Best of all, it works with any Spec Ops stock which are already very nice. I am sure everyone would agree. I am currently quite displeased with my t-stocks worn nipple and lack of adjustability. Everytime I turn the nipple I risk springing a leak from that seal. Not fun.

Having said that...

if you were to put a warp bodied x-valved automag on one of those Spec Ops stock adapters and ran a Q Loader... you would have a lower profile side feed compact Longbow that saved you money! It would be better AND cheaper, and custom too. Its the off-the-shelf solution.

If you did get one Lonewolf, you could make that uber low-profile Longbow style marker... and then you just got to find a way to attach a Q Loader somewhere to have it in a good spot. If you could clamp it to the Longbow stock somewhere that would rule. If you had that warp tac body AND that stock adapter that would be one seriously nice marker setup.

[Mercenario]

http://www.bp-usa.com/big_product_pics/66190.jpg

To me this is an easier, less expensive fix to the issue, it costs less than half and I'm pretty sure it's much lighter