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Thread: Tactical Automag prototype thread. Please help.

  1. #181
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
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    BROOKLYN NYC
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    Hello people it been a couple of days.


    since then i saw this its a riser that would be used to put the scope up i know some guys prefer to have a lower profile but these are for the longbow users that don't want to change the placement of their stock



    here is a link to their product

    http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c....t.A/id.3576/.f

    http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c....t.A/id.2722/.f

    this link is for all you future q loader users its a dump bag so you can throw them into the bag while you are on the field here is the link

    http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c....t.A/id.3231/.f
    BACK IN THE GAME.


  2. #182
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Clayton, NC
    Posts
    315
    The problem with SpecOps parts and accessories is they are outrageously priced.

    You can get similar and sometimes identical hardware from the airsoft community for MUCH less. That is after all where a significant portion of OpsGear and SpecOps accessories are taken from.

    Check out www.redwolfairsoft.com for an amazing array of scope mounts and such. Many of which could have applications with the mods discussed in this thread.
    Lvl X TKO Automag PF/HL, Intelliframe, a Simmons 30mm Red Dot and a J&J 12" Ceramic barrel.
    Crossfire 68/4500
    -------------------------------------
    Die Hard Woods Player

  3. #183
    since then i saw this its a riser that would be used to put the scope up i know some guys prefer to have a lower profile but these are for the longbow users that don't want to change the placement of their stock
    That riser actually looks pretty good, and it looks like he had enough mask clearance without pulling a yoga head.

    I am making alot of yoga references because my girlfriends sister keeps talking about it, and how much yoga hurts. I am still tyring to figure out why she is still going.

    The problem with SpecOps parts and accessories is they are outrageously priced.
    I personally hate Spec Ops system of pricing things. The exact types of labor and materials go into airsoft parts, as was mentioned, but somehow when it gets fixed to a paintball gun it becomes ten times more expensive?! It upsets me, and it enforces a sort of elitist quality to the Spec Ops stuff, which I find useless and negative. This coupled with the fact that Spec Ops stuff doesnt always perform due to poor design.

    Having said that, Spec Ops stuff is still pretty cool. Eye candy galore.

    If that Borph type frame was made, it would be just as easy to make the stock attached to the frame, and not use the Spec Ops stock. I dont think a variety of stocks would look good on that frame anyways, so I wouldnt mind loosing the customizability. If a stock were designed and milled from the same peice of aluminium, it would be 1: cheaper and 2: easier, and perhaps even 3: look better. We could just fix the stock asa to the rear of the stock, and viola... instant air thru for a fraction of the cost.

    We might then have some money left over for paint!

    Ill try fixin a stock to the body.

    Ugh, just thought: It would be like perma-stock, even when you wouldnt want one. The ultimate would be a folding stock, that tucks away in a good spot. I wonder what is involved with creating a folding stock? The turning/locking mechanism, etc.

  4. #184
    For more perma-stock frames, check this out.



    The bottom two have a larger profile from top to bottom, but less mass. This may be a better configuration if we require more mask clearance, as those two designs at the bottom got clearance for days!

    They are based on the MK1 Carbine



    If you like the carbine, this could be the configuration for you?

  5. #185
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    Greenville, SC
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    2,008
    Quote Originally Posted by Trippzilla06
    I noticed this thread, and it peaked my interest, I'm new but I do have some input. It seems that your going with, or leaning to a Warp feed, and some kind of Railing for a Reflexive Scope. But this clearance thing is raining on your parade, for some ideas, I'm into airsoft and paintball, but they have elevated Scope Rails maybe you could use.

    For Copy Right purposes they won't allow me to provide a direct link but.
    http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/Category go under where it has listed AEG/AEP, scroll down to "Accessories", and then on the other browser to the immediate right , go to "Scope Rail & Mounts" I have an G&G GR16, possibly a CA M15A4 soon, I was thinking about attaching a ACOG to the top of my S.I.R. and I realized I still want to use my Iron sight, so I'd have to get an elevated Scope Rail, to still be able to use my Iron sights, and use the Scope, because I took off the Carrying Handle.

    P.S. I'm probably going to get a TAC-ONE Soon, it's a great weapon, and similar to my M4 in specs, the Selective Interface RAIL system I have on the foregrip, etc.

    EDIT: If this does help you, I have hundres (literally) links to para-military and military sites, I can help you track down something to mount on the common 20mm accessory rail which appears to be the dimension you'll be using.

    and anyone cares? you are gay, get used to it
    no really tho, he's onto something. That would solve your sight problems
    RAWR

  6. #186
    and anyone cares? you are gay, get used to it
    Whats is the point of even saying this? We were having a mature conversation. Do you mind?

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by famousgamer


    Hey look. Its the quietest marker in the world. Unfortunatley it is also illegal in the US. The good news is that I am in Canada.

    The sediment filter silencer, supposedly, requires no housing. The filter, placed over the end of the barrel, is supposed to suppress most of the "crack" noise from firing. Sediment filters are also really cheap, ranging from 3 to 10 dollars.

    The marker looks pretty deadly, and it would be pretty tricky to get everything really straight. If it did work tho, it would sweetness.

    EDIT: actually, this marker would need a sight riser. If one were to aim high for a long shot, the barrel would start to get in the way, as was mentioned earlier.
    this seems kinda old school and cool have you ever tried the sediment filter before does it work
    i was thiking sliding it over a long all american barrel porting would be cool

  8. #188
    To be honest, I have never tried it. I did some hardcore research tho. Some people who have tried them say they are the best, and there is no need to try anything else.

    The middle of the filter is hard, and has lots of holes just like a regular silencer. In fact, it is exactly the same except is is not totally enclosed. Supposedly it is actually louder once you put a cover on it.

    At the price of a filter (3 to 10 dollars) you could experiment and see the results for really cheap.

    The mag makes little noise other than the pop from the barrel when it fires. I really do think that this would be one of the most quiet paintball markers out there is the silencer works.

    EDIT, and oh yeah, sliding the filter over the porting will not quiet the marker. You have to have it hanging out from the tip of the barrel. About 75 percent of the filter should be suspended after the tip of your barrel ends. This is to dampen the explosion of air leaving the tight confines of the barrel. It will not work over the porting holes as they do not allow much noise to escape.

    To get the filter tight to the barrel, just wrap electrical tape in two spots where the filter meets the barrel. If the tape is the right thickness after several wraps, the friction fit should be perfect.

  9. #189
    found these on pbreview


    i know it is not an mag but meh

    http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=326849
    Last edited by paintball_fiend; 01-30-2006 at 01:42 AM.

  10. #190
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
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    Toronto......Eh?
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    Ive been following the discussion for some time, there are some really good design ideas in here.

    But, Im concerned about the uses of the scope/optics in an actual game....

    Alot of the sights and scopes ive seen on these prototypes/examples look to be fairly pricey. And i would think one hit would either crack the lense, or render the lense useless for the rest of the day. Requiring hours of meticulous cleaning to clean the lense and the inner workings of the sight.

    All the effort put into mounting the optics on the gun and make it workable while wearing a mask just doesnt seem worth it to me.

    Also the reality of paintball is that no gun can shoot consistantly/accuratly enough to justify a telescopic sight with crosshairs. So im assuming most ppl would use the optics for surveying the CA or target identification from afar.

    In that by the time your target gets into close enough range, so that the shots would hit where your sight is indicating, you wouldnt want to use the sight as if would limit how much you could see around you. Succuming to tunnel vision in other words.


    Ive played pb for aboot 12 yrs now, (8 of which has been in speedball), but the my first 4 years were playing pump games in the woods, ghillie suits and all. But we never saw the need for a scope or anything.


    The stock designs on this post look really good, and especially the mounting options you guys have designed for the qloaders. Some of which im going to try out for my PTp RT.

    But Im interested to hear how/when you intend to put the optics to during a game.
    What other sport do i get to shoot people on purpose?

    Also know as PBall=my obsession on the nation

    Good Traders: Captain Stabbin, Paintballer86

  11. #191
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    BROOKLYN NYC
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    i use a red dot sight with no magnafacation i just use as a reference target for my longball shots. real scopes have nopurpose just for looking ahead thin would just carry binoculars which are cheaper.

  12. #192
    Well (this is only my opinion) The sites are HOLO or Red Dot sites and more used for fast target aquistion and not used as a scope.

    This was kind of the idea behind this type of design. In theory, if you can aquire your target faster and are able to pull the trigger sooner (not relying on accuracy by volume) then you can effectly hit your target easier, faster and with less paint.

    Now this maybe be for some people and maybe not work for others. Its all a personal preference.

    My TacOne leaves on its jouney to be transformed by UMS tomorrow. I will keep you guys up to date with pictures as I get them from Britt.

    We both have looked at the dsign ideas in this thread and incorped our own and think we are coming up with a very user friendly design.

  13. #193
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    1,461
    Quote Originally Posted by famousgamer
    That's hot, and seems to be very doable. Have you considered the option of an ASA in place of the stock for those that want to keep air on-gun while mantaining the same profile? That would be tight. Anyone know how long that SpecOps stock is for reference?

  14. #194
    Yeah, no scopes for aiming anyways. Im pretty sure most people just include them to look for bad guys anyways. Red Dots make some pretty quick target aquisition however. Even a red dot is not bang on all the time, due to paintballs being what they are, but its a pretty great starting point for marking someone.

  15. #195


    Maybe a little more erganomic than the one I did earlier.

    I am kinda leaning towards going remote, as this marker above would provide perfect balance, and you wouldnt really feel any of that weight from the paint in the Q Loader. With the tank on, the Q Loader should be under the barrel. This would balance out the marker, and would really be an entirley different design. That design would be cool as well, but I am going to try to perfect the remote design first I think.

  16. #196
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Ocala, Florida
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    1,283
    One good reason for a red dot to is that these are probably going to be scenario game markers , which will include night play. Red dots at night can make a huge difference. The last picture is pretty sweet but then you loose a place to mount a tac light should you want to because the part under the barrel is no longer parallel to the barrel.

  17. #197
    What do you think of this one?


  18. #198
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ogden, UT
    Posts
    14

    Stock

    Gentelmen,
    I am new here but not to PB. I have enjoyed reading the thread, Reps to dIVEANX for bringing me here from the UMS site.

    I purchase my Tac one for the purpose of turning it in to the Q-bow. I too agree the long bow is to skimpy on paint. You have given me cause to look hard at the Q-bow stock.

    I live near the special opps show room and factory, I am lucky enough to be a beta tester for them. The Dog leg stock on an A-5 is flat out the best stock I have ever used. I hope they make one for the Q-bow. Form my own personal expeince I can say that every thing I have tested is top shelf. It's my job to beat the hell out of their stuff and I do Now I don't get to test every thing. I have A-5's 98's and now tac one. I do agree that their stuff is pricy, but how many companies have we seen come and go because they could'nt make it in PB???? Didn't have the $$$ to make it.

    again thanks for the read

    PR

  19. #199
    I go back and forth on how I personally feel about Spec Ops.

    I am pretty sure that they could deliver a peice of bent aluminum with a little hosing and hardware on it (the dogleg stock) for less than 100 dollars. In my limited experience with millwork I could turn out at least 50 of those in an eight hour shift I would wager. People are getting gouged.

    One thing I am an expert in is plastic injection molding, as it relates to wargame miniature production (my job). Those plastic stocks that Spec Ops sells for 100 a pop cost about 2 dollars in materials, maybe 5 more in labor and maximum 10 dollars for manufacturing.

    Think about it. You can buy a brand new automag with a barrel included for the price of buying a Spec Ops kit to turn an ADG marker into a Longbow ( http://www.specialopspaintball.com/s...SEARCH=LONGBOW ). That seems very wrong. Think about the materials and time and engineering it takes to create an AGD marker, and then the simple hoses and milling that make up the Longbow shroud and parts.

    Actually, I find Spec Ops no more noble than any other Mil Sim type paintball retailer. They have a forum. They have some flash animations. Its all gimmicks. You know what gimmick I like? Quality merged with low prices. Its no wonder why I like AGD so much. When AGD can sell an entire paintball marker for the same price that Spec Ops sells a Stock and a bit of hardware it is clear who is doing a greater service to the world of paintball.

    and yes, Ill make that front section of that marker shroud flat again, with the barrel. Once a picatinny is there, flasklights and the such will become of use again.

    The marker looks good dIVEANX. It is expensive, but if you can make it without breakin the bank you are gonna rip out there. Yer on my team!

  20. #200
    Oh yeah... check this out for best of both worlds type action...

    Okay, airsoft is cheaper than paintball, and delivers the same stuff, if not more variety of things. How about making the marker shroud a transfer point from paintball to the cheaper airsoft parts? Check it out...

    The AGD shroud becomes a core of sorts. Then one can attach airsoft parts onto that core however they like. This will make the marker adaptable, and inexpensive. Full on rails, sight, thingies, rear view mirrors, etc. Way to stick it to the man!

    So, a few things...

    Need to find the best sort of airsoft gear, for the lowest prices to know what kinda stuff is gonna fit onto the core. I looked around, and alot of airsoft is expensive when it is metal, but cheap when it is plastic. I dont mind plastic, as so many paintball stocks are already plastic, but I wanna find the ones that are half the price as spec ops.

    We then need to find out how they are attached. I am sure its pretty basic, but some kind of knowledge of how certan parts are attached would be helpful.

    Some things we can research are...

    EDIT: You know, that airsoft stuff is pretty damn pricey still! I am not sure if it is much less expensive! Maybe I am looking in the wrong spots.



    This gives the automag Special Ops customizability times ten, and Airsoft prices.

    So, any links, research or experience yawl can handle would really help. Thanks guys.
    Last edited by famousgamer; 01-31-2006 at 02:47 AM.

  21. #201
    Even worse, some manufacturers glue a Tippmann A-5 end cap onto a stock that was hacked off a cheap airsoft gun. We hate to criticize product, but this is a truly horrible design
    from http://www.specialopspaintball.com/a...buttstocks.asp

    Hehe. Glue? Spec Ops is telling me not to do it.

    I better do it.

  22. #202
    yah scopes are just for looks but i have used red dots to good effect before
    i have an emag so makeing wond of these for it would be cool kinda mix a couple together





    it could be as simple as getting the folding stock, warp feed body, and mounting adapter that would probably be the cheapest but it would be cool to see what you guys could come up with for the emag



    having the qloader under the grip is an awsome idea that way you have to have such a long gun you could put a short barrel if you wanted and call it your emag p90

  23. #203


    Okay, I know the airsoft is "cheap" plastic, but is it really that less durable than the Spec Ops plastic? That tiny little handguard from Spec Ops costs as much as that whole WORKING airsoft gun! I know that all those Spec Ops parts are plastic, but does the price really justify their being metal?

    I own a Dremel. I could turn that front section of the airsoft into a handguard, with build in pic rails for free. I guess then you get a stock for free too. Why not just stick an agd marker inside that airsoft frame? Instant rails, stock, etc, for 30 BUCKS?!

    I know, its crazy. As crazy as that moon landing footage. It just might work tho. I am not even that into milsim. I just want a tactical marker without spending all my hard earned money. If it turns out that airsoft plastic is as good as Spec Ops plastic, it might just be crazy enough to work.

    For 30 bucks, Ill give it a shot. Id prolly loose the clip tho and make some room for a foregrip.

  24. #204
    having the qloader under the grip is an awsome idea that way you have to have such a long gun you could put a short barrel if you wanted and call it your emag p90
    Id love to feel the weight of the paint taken right off the marker by having the pod centered like that. Soooo nice I bet.

  25. #205
    the airsoft thing is what most of the milsim salers do then they charge 600+ for their stuff

  26. #206
    Hey Famous. I already have the marker (thanks to A Tach One on this site) Im not sure if you are familar with Britt from the Underground Mod Shop.

    He has done mostly A5 and 98 mods until now. I approached him after I tried to get just the stock, shroud and mag wells for my TacOne from Spec Ops and they will not sell it that way.

    I am even on one their only 4 sponsored teams and they wouldnt do it. The only way I was offered a chance to get them was if I shared my scenario cocker ideas with them and Frankly that isnt going to happen now.

    But then I was turned onto this thread and you guys have alot of valid points that have been over looked in the making of the Longbow.

    I talked with Rory just after they built the Longbow and understood the reasoning behind it and while holding it with no mask it on it was awesome but once you put that mask on its a whole different story.

    Its hard for me to say anything bad about Spec Ops because they have done alot for our team Espeically Robert (Cops911) Robert has been a primary sponsor for our team for a long time and we will stand behind him no matter what.

    I have my personal opinions but I chose to keep them to myself because I dont want anything I say to effect my team.

    But the plastic issue I have to comment on. My team captain has an Ops Gear G36 kit he has had since it came out (pre Spec Ops sponsorship) and this weekend he got shot in the stock and it broke. Now can you image if a paintball can break that plastic like that what it would have done if it had hit is body OMG.

    Anyway after seeing that I dont think I would ever own a plastic anything on a marker. I mean it did enough damage that it would be very easy to break the rest of the stock off diving for cover and then the possiblity of jabbing it into yourself is very high.

    I think I will stick to paying alittle more for stamped or machined aluminum for I feel that for safety and wear sake it is the best option. Sure you give up some weight but in the long run it will be alot better, just eat your Wheaties LOL

  27. #207
    here are some examples of the airsoft thing....they over charge to the extreme




  28. #208
    Lets just say I have gotten a hold of some airsoft gun bodies, without the internals. The are CHEAP, and super high quality.

    Im not talking the low end plastic things either. I am talking fiberglass bodies, aluminum and super tough ABS high end plastic.

    Since I dont need to pay for any airsoft internals, it makes the guns so cheap. Even last night alone I got three emails from people wanting to sell me their damaged and broken airsoft guns, with no exterior damage done to them at all. They look brand new.

    They are so cheap I cant even begin to discribe how much we are being ripped off in the paintball community. Gouging is this game sucks, but I may have found a solution.

    Granted, I will have to mod the airsoft bodies to fit the paintball marker, and that may not be easy. The good news is my time is free. Buying all those upgrades from Spec Ops is the equivilent of a weeks wages for most people. I bet modding a marker and airsoft frame would not take me longer than two evenings tops.

    I am still interested in the original idea, but this opportunity provides kinda a cheap and super effective bandage until we can find a millable design. Honestly tho, I dont know how we are gonna get a front grip, main body, retractable stock and tonnes of picatinny rails for the same price as an airsoft body.

  29. #209
    You know, seriously tho, if those airsoft type automag markers shown above were a even a hundred dollars cheaper, they would slay over a Longbow. Qbow's value all the sudden becomes debatable at 900 dollars a pop.

  30. #210
    black cell qloader = bizon



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