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Thread: Tactical Automag prototype thread. Please help.

  1. #211
    Its got a helical drive hopper and everything!

  2. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Severe
    The problem with SpecOps parts and accessories is they are outrageously priced.

    You can get similar and sometimes identical hardware from the airsoft community for MUCH less. That is after all where a significant portion of OpsGear and SpecOps accessories are taken from.

    Check out www.redwolfairsoft.com for an amazing array of scope mounts and such. Many of which could have applications with the mods discussed in this thread.
    We do NOT use chopped up airsoft product. Opsgear used that in the past and it was a great way for them to bring to market a bunch of product really quickly however the quality was lacking and now they have gotten into making their own products specific for paintball.
    Rory McCarthy

    AIM/Yahoo = IrishPipes79
    Roryshouse@hotmail.com

  3. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Spec.Ops1
    We do NOT use chopped up airsoft product. Opsgear used that in the past and it was a great way for them to bring to market a bunch of product really quickly however the quality was lacking and now they have gotten into making their own products specific for paintball.
    i dont think he was saying that u made it out of airsoft parts just that it is very similar but alot more expensive

  4. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by famousgamer


    I personally hate Spec Ops system of pricing things. The exact types of labor and materials go into airsoft parts, as was mentioned, but somehow when it gets fixed to a paintball gun it becomes ten times more expensive?! It upsets me, and it enforces a sort of elitist quality to the Spec Ops stuff, which I find useless and negative. This coupled with the fact that Spec Ops stuff doesnt always perform due to poor design.

    ha.... whoa. we dont use airsoft chops and call it our own... period. Wish I could share with you our production cost on things and you would then be like "oh...wow... nevermind". Perfect example is our F.O.G foregrip where the base is machined from solid billet aluminum. The longbow was sort of like... a concept car that we decided was to cool NOT to bring to market. And now we have spin-offs from it that are looking great. (yours are cool for sure)

    Our stuff will become more cost effective as it becomes more popular. But right now what you are asking is for ferrari to change their car and market position and start making some honda priced stuff. We will def. bring to market lower cost stuff in the future in a planned and calculated method, but too much of that then we would'nt be "Special Ops". We'd just be "everybody else".

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec.Ops1
    ha.... whoa. we dont use airsoft chops and call it our own... period. Wish I could share with you our production cost on things and you would then be like "oh...wow... nevermind". Perfect example is our F.O.G foregrip where the base is machined from solid billet aluminum. The longbow was sort of like... a concept car that we decided was to cool NOT to bring to market. And now we have spin-offs from it that are looking great. (yours are cool for sure)

    Our stuff will become more cost effective as it becomes more popular. But right now what you are asking is for ferrari to change their car and market position and start making some honda priced stuff. We will def. bring to market lower cost stuff in the future in a planned and calculated method, but too much of that then we would'nt be "Special Ops". We'd just be "everybody else".
    i dont think we ever said you used modified airsoft parts. as in taking airsoft parts and making them fit a paintball gun.

    we are saying that you are using (making) parts that are very similar to airsoft parts, and if the same type and quality part was sold in airsoft it would cost much less.

    I can see that your parts may be expensive due to low supply, marketing strategies, or whatever the reasons, But that doesn't mean we can't complain about the price difference between spec-ops products and similar airsoft products.

  6. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Spec.Ops1
    ha.... whoa. we dont use airsoft chops and call it our own... period. Wish I could share with you our production cost on things and you would then be like "oh...wow... nevermind". Perfect example is our F.O.G foregrip where the base is machined from solid billet aluminum. The longbow was sort of like... a concept car that we decided was to cool NOT to bring to market. And now we have spin-offs from it that are looking great. (yours are cool for sure)

    Our stuff will become more cost effective as it becomes more popular. But right now what you are asking is for ferrari to change their car and market position and start making some honda priced stuff. We will def. bring to market lower cost stuff in the future in a planned and calculated method, but too much of that then we would'nt be "Special Ops". We'd just be "everybody else".
    again we arent saying you just throw airsoft on your guns ....saying putting airsoft looking and similarly maid stuff on you guns.....completely different you manufactured it from scratch and diserve the credit and no one is trying to take that away from you. we just like having things for a cheaper price.
    and i understand your markety point of view and dont expect it to change. we are just trying to make our own for as cheap as possible.....married with bills

    and i am a new member of specops brigade and the forums and i love the stuff you guys do maybe you could look at forums like this as constructive critizism and get new ideas on stock location and design


    again thing for making the black cell in the first place so we could start up threads like this and put in our 2 cents worth of desing ideas

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec.Ops1
    We do NOT use chopped up airsoft product. Opsgear used that in the past and it was a great way for them to bring to market a bunch of product really quickly however the quality was lacking and now they have gotten into making their own products specific for paintball.
    As the others have already said, I wasn't implying that you used chopped airsoft guns for your kits. I specifically referring to accessories; scopes, rails, RIS accessories, etc. Also, many of the large air-soft resellers have accessories you simply don't carry.

    Budget is everything to many players and I'm a firm believer in going where I can save some money. I give much kudos to SpecOps and OpsGear for bringing a lot of the mil-sim, specifically A5 stuff, in to the scenario mainstream.

    However, as a consumer we have a responsibility to our wallet to get the best bang for the buck. Until such a time as your prices do drop, I'll have to encourage scenario players to get their accessories from the most cost effective places.
    Lvl X TKO Automag PF/HL, Intelliframe, a Simmons 30mm Red Dot and a J&J 12" Ceramic barrel.
    Crossfire 68/4500
    -------------------------------------
    Die Hard Woods Player

  8. #218
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    I dont think "cost effective" "Budget" or anything similar really pertain to anything paintball.
    The sport is expensive to begin with.

    When you want to customize your gear it becomes even more abusive to your finances.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Im wondering why nobody has proposed any designs involving a warp feed?

    What about a design where you incorporate the stock and part of the hopper? If you custom build a chamber that held the paintballs and that also functioned as a stock, then use a warp feed to move the balls from the chamber/stock to the breach. ??
    What other sport do i get to shoot people on purpose?

    Also know as PBall=my obsession on the nation

    Good Traders: Captain Stabbin, Paintballer86

  9. #219
    I do beleive that paintball should not break the bank.

    Hobbies are expensive, yes. Plastic injection molding are not.

    Paintballs are expensive. Macro hoses, fittings and those varieties of parts are not.

    If you are rich, god is smiling upon you. For the rest of us there is the budget.

    AGD seems to price their markers as cheap as they will go within reason, and a company like Spec Ops seems to charge as much as they possibly can.

    Inject plastic into a mold. Install macro hosing and hardware. Put it in a box. Charge 100 dollars. That for me does no compute. I know the plastic manufacturing industry. The exact same process that goes into making a body for a 30 dollar airsoft gun is what is used to make a 100 dollar Spec Ops stock, and that upsets me. How bout you?

    That is not even counting this one: Mill sheet of aluminum, put in vice and bend, install logo and harware... charge 100 dollars. Ummm, something is very wrong.

    Case and point, look at airsoft. Red dot scopes, RIS systems, Body frames all much less than Spec Ops would provide them for. If airsoft companies sold their parts peice by peice (not add-ons, but the original body peices or kits) people would search no further. The quality of design, merged with the already readily avalible manufacturing of China makes the parts so inexpensive, and still the posses a quality we would expect anywhere else, if not better.

    What am I paying for? A Spec Ops logo? I personally dislike pimping anyones brand name or symbol unless I am sponsored. I also dislike paying extra for a brand name.

    Am I paying for domestic manufacturing? Is Spec Ops made in the USA? If there was a Spec Ops China division would their parts be a quarter of the price and the same quality? These are the kinds of questions I ask when I see a 100 dollar price tag on a plastic stock.

    I also never implied Spec Ops uses airsoft parts. In fact, I more so implied that they should. This would be alot cheaper for the consumer, and the stuff would look excellent. There would also be no gawdy brand name, and there would be no better way to capture the milsim vibe.'

    For example: Spec Ops goes an visits Tokyo Mauri, and brokers a deal to get their airsoft bodies in a variety of models, and then takes them back in the hundreds to America. They then fill these bodies with some loud and in-efficient yet sturdy Tippmans, or a great AGD marker. Thery then sell the whole thing, at a lower rate then their compeditors, as they already had the plant and people to build the markers at a huge volume. What does the consumer get? A killer marker, TOTALLY milsim and made with the same quality of other Spec Ops parts. They get rails, stocks, grips, handles, all for huge savings, and in one purchase. WHY oh WHY cant there be a big company that does this?

    And wait a tick... if there are so many Spec Ops representitives on this thread, can you please explain the logic behind the Longbow stock being so high? That poor design is really the primer for this whole discussion. Did you not realize the whole mask thing? You know, you can get that whole "snap up" to position thing with the stock a few inches lower. Did you realize that while you were trying to capture the whole "realistic gun" vibe you actually put the barrel beneath the top line of the stock, making that configuration unlike ANY gun out there?

    It is kinda weird that you guys are freakin about the airsoft thing, and totally forgetting about the Longbow configuration. Maybe I hit a nerve? Maybe I hit upon something that is in fact the very marrow of the Spec Ops buisiness machine?

    Anyways, paintball shouldnt cost that much. I envy airsoft players. Would be nice to pay those prices. They prolly look at us going "what makes your markers so expensive?". All we can say in reply is "Who knows?"

  10. #220
    Im wondering why nobody has proposed any designs involving a warp feed?

    What about a design where you incorporate the stock and part of the hopper? If you custom build a chamber that held the paintballs and that also functioned as a stock, then use a warp feed to move the balls from the chamber/stock to the breach. ??
    Dude, a paintball hopper/warp fed stock is BRILLIANT! Can you imagine? Holy crap, that would be so nice. Dude, you are a genius. Go Canada.

    So, in that case, airfoft parts are not an option, or maybe a hollow airsoft stock is? Yeah, get like an M16 stock or somethin, and use that as a starting point. The warp is also totally AGD, and if you saw the designs started with a warp involved circa. page 1. It became a Q Loader, as they are quiet, tight and nice. The warp is gawdy, uses batteries and makes noise.

    If the warp drive was somehow shrouded to take care of the noise, then I would be interested. The rattle of balls in the stock could be eliminated by foam lining the inside of the stock, like some hoppers/players do.

    How would the hose get to the breech? Hmmm, time to get crackin at that drawing board.

    I would like to say a prayer now. Please God, let AGD make a really nice milsim woodsball marker with the stock as a hopper, fed by a warp drive motor. It would be so rad, and really AGD. It would then slay all other woodsball markers that requires hundreds of dollards of after-market upgrades.

  11. #221
    I have to defend Spec Ops on that. I own a few of there things and I dont agree with that statement.

    The dogleg stock is alot more then bending a piece of aluminum and running hose on it. Have you ever held one?

    Alot more goes into making their stuff then youa re giving credit for. If you want to compare it to AGD, when AGD first came out, they were not the cheapest on the block by no means but as time progressed and in this case no new products in years its pretty easy for things to be cheap.

    Spec Ops is a good company that is in business to make money just like any other company out there. They do alot for the sport as well as holding a scenario type tourney across the US with very nice prize packages.

    Those things cost money and you cant always eat it yourself or you will be out of business pretty fast.

    I love their Fusion battle wear and I love my Broadsword vest. They get the job done very nicely and last alot longer then any other paintball pants and pod pack I have ever used so all in all I think you are looking at the Spec Ops deal in a bias way.

    Just my opinion.

  12. #222
    I agree. Alot of Spec Ops stuff rocks. When I mean it is too pricey, I mean it is a little too pricey. Not hugley overpriced. Not un-attainably overpriced. Just expensive.

    I am seriously worried that another company will just come along and make that same stuff for cheaper. That is a reality, especialy with foreign manufacturing costs so low.

    You do not even want to know how cheap plastic injection molding is tho, after you pay for the molds to be made. It is seriously cheaper than dirt.

  13. #223


    Pretty rough start, but it kinda gives an idea of what to expect. The warp sticks out. Yuck. It is hard to put it anywhere, and still get the gravity fed paintballs stored in a reasonable number. Ill keep trying, and any contributions would help as well. Thanks guys.

  14. #224
    Yeah my ex did that for a while but like I posted earlier after the game this weekend and seeing the big hole in that plastic stock Ill pass on the plastic stuff.

    Im sure it will be out there and the people that dont want to pay premium prices for premium stuff can always get the plastic stuff LOL

    Just like the company I work for. We make a trigger system for the A5. It is pricey but it is bad to the bone and alot better then the factory trigger system.

    It comes with a totally machined aluminum housing with a roller bearing trigger and a magnetic return. We know it isnt for everyone but there will be people that want it for its performance values.

  15. #225


    A kinda ammo bow config. Could make a badass kinda circular loader thing.

    I agree Diveanx. When I hear the words aluminum I start to . Certain construction methods are just so much better than others. I do also beleive in different entry points for every kind of consumer.

    I think that plastic can mean quality,. I also think that quality can be sold for cheap... and I am fairly dedicated to finding out how to get these things together. If I do find any ammount of success then i will be for the benifit of the budgeted paintball consumer, and that would please me most. I want to represent the common person, not the wealthy. There are plenty clawing away at the wealthy market already.

  16. #226
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    Famousgamer, aren't you forgetting the mask clearance in those recent drawings?

  17. #227
    I agree Severe, mask clearance is getting shafted in way of a cool stock. We need the WHOLE PACKAGE! Hmmm. How can we get the best of both worlds?

    I guess last resort could be a sight rail, or sight risers. Id rather not go there tho unless we have to. There is also offsetting the sight, as we all know, but that also is kinda last resort. I would however rather offset the sight as opposed to a riser tho.

  18. #228
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    that last on looks a lot like the ATS AT-series...



    if only you could get the rights to that type of feed system, and maybe adapt it to the mag using something like the tippman a5 uses.

    that would be the best!!!!

  19. #229
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    I can't find the link now, but about year ago, I saw concept art of an integrated foregrip that AGD was working on that incorporate many of the functions of the Warp. It was set up in a saddle formation, meaning paintballs were on the left and right and the feed track was in the center. I think the design was intended for a below breech feeding system.

    If anyone can find the artwork it was very much in-line with what we're talking about here.

  20. #230
    Yeah, that motor looks small and tight. The warp is kinda huge.

    There is a way to get the warp tighter tho. If one removes the battery pack from the warp shell, it gets tighter...



    It doesnt even look that bad. Still pretty clunky compared to that feed system above tho.

  21. #231
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    with the paint storage at the rear, the air tank could probably be mounted under the barrel to ballance it.

  22. #232
    True, thee would be balance then. Hmm. I almost like how with the centered Q Loader design the paint was weighted evenly. I am not sure if this paintstock is gonna be balanced without counter balance. I did want to keep the tank off the marker tho.

    Oh, here is a cosmetic version of my fave paint stock so far...


  23. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by famousgamer
    I do beleive that paintball should not break the bank.
    Hobbies are expensive, yes. Plastic injection molding are not.
    Paintballs are expensive. Macro hoses, fittings and those varieties of parts are not.
    AGD seems to price their markers as cheap as they will go within reason, and a company like Spec Ops seems to charge as much as they possibly can.

    Inject plastic into a mold. Install macro hosing and hardware. Put it in a box. Charge 100 dollars. That for me does no compute. I know the plastic manufacturing industry. The exact same process that goes into making a body for a 30 dollar airsoft gun is what is used to make a 100 dollar Spec Ops stock, and that upsets me. How bout you?

    I agree. Alot of Spec Ops stuff rocks. When I mean it is too pricey, I mean it is a little too pricey. Not hugley overpriced. Not un-attainably overpriced. Just expensive. I am seriously worried that another company will just come along and make that same stuff for cheaper. That is a reality, especialy with foreign manufacturing costs so low.

    You do not even want to know how cheap plastic injection molding is tho, after you pay for the molds to be made. It is seriously cheaper than dirt.
    Gamer
    your photschops are great and you have some really cool ideas. Thank you for posting them.

    you hit the nail on the head production is cheap R&D is not.

    Quality never goes out of style. If you buy cheap stuff that is what you have cheap stuff.
    I have purchased stuff from a diffrent mil-sim company and they used airsoft chops. I paid every bit as much and was very disapointed.

    Hobbies cost money no matter what you do. Golf is expensive but no more or less that paintball. Hunting is too. When I make a PB purchase I look for durablity and function,

    There are markers that are a less expensive, but I have Tippmans and AGD markers because they are rugged and they work day in and day out.

    Consider the option of a cheaper stock you have to replace every year...is it really cheaper in the long run???

    Spec ops is the Nordstoms/Cabelas/Browning of paintball gear. THey don't sell junk

  24. #234
    I dont like this idea of a Giant hopper, too many bad things will happen, paintbreaks, hard to reload (But I guess you would never have to) I really like the qloader version better

  25. #235
    I agree that the Q Loader would be easier is many many ways.

    Here is a comparison design sheet to reference from. We can use these numbered examples to start narrowing down ideas.


  26. #236
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    No. 2 is by far the easiest for the average player to configure. It is all straight product, just assembled for functionality, minus the stock.

    For me, I would love to see the integrated Q-loader mounting option per no.7 and no.9. But I would ditch the stock option as I will be mounting my bottle directly to the marker via a dropforward.
    Last edited by Severe; 02-01-2006 at 07:56 PM.

  27. #237
    Actually, gun parts are often cheaper than airsoft parts.

    EDIT: Actually, cheaper than Spec Ops parts, and sometimes airsoft. AK47 parts in particular. Look not at the top few items, but scroll down to the stocks and foregrip combos. For 80 bucks you get a stock, grip and shroud parts. I bet those ownt break anytime soon, and you get to say you are using authentic AK47 parts to boot.

    http://www.k-var.com/shop/?30=20+and+50&6=5

    Check some of these out.
    Last edited by famousgamer; 02-01-2006 at 08:08 PM.

  28. #238


    my fave so far. balance, tonnes of clearance. Two ways to grip at the front (rifle, or vert)

  29. #239
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    Awesome! Until now, the Carbine design #6 was my favorite from above. How will this adapt to a .45 grip frame?

    Quote Originally Posted by famousgamer
    my fave so far. balance, tonnes of clearance. Two ways to grip at the front (rifle, or vert)
    -DocJ

    ReTroMag: XValve, ZBody, 12" Lapco Bigshot .697, Extreme Rage Omega body rail, Armson folding foregrip, ProLine Autoresponse (intellifed), Dye Stickies, Adco Hot Shot
    Hopper: 12v VL Revolution (XBoard, Vortex) WarpFeed (Bigcell), ProTeam Pro Feed
    Remote: 3K Flatline, Furon coiled hose, Staubli ProConnect QD w/shut off, Smart Parts gas-thru stock, Back Bottle Adapter, microline, 1+2 made from an Army surplus gas mask bag

  30. #240
    I too like that modle, I really do think the qloader would be better than the case of paint!

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