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Thread: Tactical Automag prototype thread. Please help.

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by famousgamer
    I agree that the Q Loader would be easier is many many ways.

    Here is a comparison design sheet to reference from. We can use these numbered examples to start narrowing down ideas.

    i like #8 the best.

    #12 can be made with current parts. I calculated all out on page 5 or 6, and it was pretty cheap compared to the longbow.

  2. #242
    Well, it aint the perdiest, but I do beleive this is the most user friendly and funcional design yet. The Q stock. (EDIT: for people that want to use air thru, not bottle on)



    Complete with Q mount, air-thru and of course... a stock. All in one. I put a rubber buttplate on the stock. These can be found for very cheap, and prolly feel very nice.

    The paint should be perfectly balanced in the middle. This design could also be skeletonized if made from a heavier metal. In my mind I envision this stock in milled aluminum.

    The asa is the stock automag one. Waste not want not.

    So, front part aside, I think this is a real starting point. If one were ot use the front grip, they would have to use a grip extender peice, or if they were using an RT they might clear the Q holder part of the Q stock.

    If there is no drilling into the frame, the stock becomes way easier to install, and transfer from marker to marker. An all round easier way to go, and good way to include all AGD makes and models.

    This stock should work with any automag, and most other markers out there with holes on the bottom of the grip for a bottomline or drop forward. Q Loader should make these. They might sell a few.

  3. #243
    i agree stick with the qloader

    is the first of the angled designs that i like...nice
    still like #3 the best it only has one part to design the rest is already out there

    make it out of alluminum

    cant wait for the tac one warp feed bodys

  4. #244
    Is the TAC ONE warp feed gonna happen for really?

  5. #245
    Here is a lil breakdown of the Q stocked mag vs. the Black Cell:



    I included some things that are important to me while playing, like profile and mask clearance. The "exposure while firing from cover" measurement is measured to the marker, not the player. Two players being equal size will simply add to this amount. I also did not include a foregrip on the Q stocked mag, but one could use anything there.

    Did you know that if you were to take the exposure from the Cell and put it up instead of down it may as well have a hopper on the top? Seems kinda silly to go through all that effort to lower the profile, and then you got to get that Q Loader over cover to brace it and fire, effectivle removing all that clearance. If the cover is in front of the user, and the marker is not braced for stability, then this is not an issue.

    What I did not mention in the diagram was price. The Q stock would cost minimal ammounts to mill from aluminum. It is 2D milling (the cheapest of computerized routing) from a sheet of aluminum and a few holes drilled into it. Go ahead and screw on the stock asa, and grab an extra long macro line to reach the marker. Done. I could not see this costing over 100 bucks. I could be totally wrong here, but my buddies at their sign shop got a computerized router, and I could ask them and report back.

    I also did not mention the balance point. The Q stock marker is perfectly balanced in the middle. The Black Cell is front heavy.

    You will need to round the stock out as much as you want by hand tho, if the router 2D mills it. I personally would dremel mine quite rounded, like an M16 stock. Worth the effort, and saves a tonne of cash.

  6. #246
    oh yeah... also forgot to make this point...

    The one on the top is an AGD Automag. The one on the bottom is an Ion. Enough said.

  7. #247
    you should shorten the total exposed on the black cell
    the player only has to get the barrel above cover not the qloader also

    mask clearence and length are a big issue for me

    after all with the design we are working on the barrel could be 8 in freak with flash tip and confortible to aim over the top

    can someone point me in the direction of a good place to host pics for free
    or famous can i send you some pics so you could host them they are of a tac emag

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by paintball_fiend
    you should shorten the total exposed on the black cell
    the player only has to get the barrel above cover not the qloader also

    mask clearence and length are a big issue for me

    after all with the design we are working on the barrel could be 8 in freak with flash tip and confortible to aim over the top

    can someone point me in the direction of a good place to host pics for free
    or famous can i send you some pics so you could host them they are of a tac emag
    http://imageshack.us/ hows that?

  9. #249
    TAC Emag. Drool.

    Go ahead and get a photobucket account. photobucket.com. When you upload a pic just grab the IMG tag from its listing, and paste it into these boards. Any questions just mail me.

    I have shown the exposed height from the Q loader and not the barrel because one would costantly be firing from behind hard cover, or right up to it. A Black Cell owner would have to pull back constantly to not over expose themselves, while the AGD user could just peek up from wherever. When resting the marker on any hard cover, or clearing it one becomes exposed in this way. I know it is not all the time, but it is still a reality with the Black Cell to me. I can stick the AGD barrel out a small crack or opening. That reality is entirley lost with the Cell as well. I thought it was a sneaky sniper rifle?! Like I said, the exposure is not always an issue, but is worth mentioning.

    Also, one could snap shoot with the Q stock position like that. It is really takes up the same dimentions as most tanks out there, if not a little higher. That means the feel and motions would be tight, similar to speedball. Pivots and angles. The Black Cell is like a rocket launcher compared to it. Sparse, front heavy, gawdy and loose. Thats not even counting the price.

  10. #250
    thank you very much famous

    ok this was done with paint so meh


  11. #251
    the qloader needs to be farther forward so it can be reloaded with the non folding stock


    also having a short barrel would be cool for playing tight

  12. #252
    That top one is an excellent idea. Oh man, that marker would rip. You are on my team. Building the bottom one would be really easy too, as it is really just a metal bar with holes. The others would be trickier, but then you get to use the nice air thru stocks. Nice work dood.

    Here is a revised comparison sheet, with the idea that exposure is measured from NOT resting the marker on hard cover...



    I also included what I estimate the balance points to be.

    EDIT: Actually, that balance point on the Ion is really far forward. Let just call it a balance DIRECTION point, okay?

  13. #253
    yah i was thinking that a strip of metal about an inch wide with holes in it to go under the battery cover and grip is where the qloader would mount....cheap
    then just buy a jcs folding stock and you after market stuff is done

    cheapest yet

    your point of balence looks pretty good but it might be a little closer to the front of the forgrip
    the rest of you comparison looks very good

    i will have to make up a sub machine gun tac mag later....starting to wish i had photo shop and not just paint


    again thanks for the photo hosting web site, talk to you guys tommarow

  14. #254
    Yeah, Im gonna crash. Or make soap. The Tyler Durdens of paintball designs rarley sleep.

  15. #255
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    This thread inpsired me


    "I'm not happy unless you're not happy"

  16. #256
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    this is exactly what I was thinking of.

    I just dont like the idea of a qloader under my barrel, or under the gun......seems a little too prone to getting smashed when diving for cover.

    Anyways


    Im waiting for a warp feed to arrive via a trade, and then im going to home depot for some plastic panels.


    we'll see where an exacto knife and some epoxy lead me.....
    What other sport do i get to shoot people on purpose?

    Also know as PBall=my obsession on the nation

    Good Traders: Captain Stabbin, Paintballer86

  17. #257

    nice job big evil
    how sturdy is it and where did you get the stock

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by BigEvil
    This thread inpsired me

    BEST... MAG... EVER!

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Barjack420
    this is exactly what I was thinking of.

    I just dont like the idea of a qloader under my barrel, or under the gun......seems a little too prone to getting smashed when diving for cover.

    Anyways


    Im waiting for a warp feed to arrive via a trade, and then im going to home depot for some plastic panels.


    we'll see where an exacto knife and some epoxy lead me.....
    You know what I might suggest. Grab a heat gun from home depot. If you get a thin sheet of ABS you can cut parts and "drape" them around parts on the paintball marker, or a frame you have build for support.

    Just rest the plastic right on the marker, make sure there aint no melty bits on the marker itself, and hit the plastic with the gun. Move it around so as not to overcook one area over the next. Even heat. The plastic will form. Good starting point for complex shapes.

    I might also reccomend epoxy putty (green stuff) for the gaps. Easy to sculpt, and cures like plastic. Totally waterproof, and can be sanded, painted, etc.

    You can also heat up sheet plastic in the oven. Open a window, and turn on a fan, and dont overcook it. Alot of plastic is toxic, like Kydex. ABS works best I think.

    Then return the heat gun to home depot, saying it was the wrong item. Their return policy says they must take everything back, no matter what. Nice huh? Its means, I know, but I think Home Depot can afford to take the hit.

  20. #260


    As you can see, different heights of stock offer different varieties of clearance and profile. Depending on which is most comfy to shoot from is the one that should be used.

    They are all so similar, I wouldnt mind using any one of them. For looks tho, Id choose either A or C. Id rather not use the straight stock (B), unless we either need to lower the profile to the max, or raise the buttplate up.

    The fregrip is just that carbine grip from earlier. Not set on this at all. Looks neat, but there needs to be a vert grip option for going in tight.

  21. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by famousgamer
    You know what I might suggest. Grab a heat gun from home depot. If you get a thin sheet of ABS you can cut parts and "drape" them around parts on the paintball marker, or a frame you have build for support.

    Just rest the plastic right on the marker, make sure there aint no melty bits on the marker itself, and hit the plastic with the gun. Move it around so as not to overcook one area over the next. Even heat. The plastic will form. Good starting point for complex shapes.

    I might also reccomend epoxy putty (green stuff) for the gaps. Easy to sculpt, and cures like plastic. Totally waterproof, and can be sanded, painted, etc.

    You can also heat up sheet plastic in the oven. Open a window, and turn on a fan, and dont overcook it. Alot of plastic is toxic, like Kydex. ABS works best I think.

    Then return the heat gun to home depot, saying it was the wrong item. Their return policy says they must take everything back, no matter what. Nice huh? Its means, I know, but I think Home Depot can afford to take the hit.
    What you are talking about is vacuforming. well sort of. Ive done this before, and its very tricky to do right. Firstly, you need to be using very thin plastic. I couldnt do it right with .100 sheet styrene, so it will be very tough with anything from home depot. Ideally, you need .030 down to .010 to get a good form.

    You also need a vacu-forming rig of some sort. When I get home I will post some links about DIY vacuforming for anyone who seriously wants to give it a shot.

    By time your done though... you might be better off just buying the part your trying to copy.

    There are pros and cons to trying this for a paintball application. Remember, these paintball guns will be handled roughly. Any type of plastic that is thin and plyable enough to be heated and 'formed' over another part will not be very durable.

    Just something to think about.


    famousgamer - THANKS about the Etac

  22. #262
    If I was doing the hopper stock persoanlly. I would make it out of melted plastic and epoxy putty as a frame, and then fiberglass it. After a few sheets of fiberglass and resin it will be rock solid as a boat hull. You could stand on the hopper stock and it wouldnt break. Fiberglass is also very light.

    Come to think of it, you know who would be an excellent hopper stock maker would be? A prosthetics maker, or someone in orthodics. They melt plastic and use fiberglass all the time. They are also mostly really cool people, from my experience. I am not an amputee, but I know a few and got hooked up with them to make some kali stickfighting armor.

    The nice thing about them too is that they name a price, and are usually very professional. Worth a shot is one were serious. I might even give it a shot myself.

  23. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by paintball_fiend

    nice job big evil
    how sturdy is it and where did you get the stock

    Its an old Crossman stock. They fit perfectly on the Sheridan PGPs, and with a little modding on the old wgd/agd grip frame. (The old skool single trigger ones that you have pictured). And by "modding" I mean simply drilling new screw holes to make them line up. It will fit right on.

    I think they are still available. I remember seeing them on the Crossman websight not too long ago.

    I used a peice of bar aluminum to connect it to the gun. The front part of the stock was hollow. I cut it to the length I wanted, then used 2-part marine resin to 'permanantly' attach it to the aluminum peice. If you look close, you can see the honey colored plastic sticking out the front. I built it up a little so it would fit snug up against the grip. THere is about 6 inches of resin in the stock. I also drilled some holes in the metal where it goes into it. This way the resing would grab it really well. The thing is VERY sturdy.

    I want to see if I can find a drop that is more angled so I can use the tank on-gun. For now, I will run a remote. It will be easier to lug around all day that way anyhow.

  24. #264
    Sweet dude. Such a nice ride. I even love the shape of the stock.


    Hey. Lookie what I found...



    tee hee
    Last edited by famousgamer; 02-02-2006 at 06:02 PM.

  25. #265
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    very nice.

    I still like the idea of not being tethered to your pbgun by a remote line.

    the last few months i've played paintball with rental tippmans, and they were not bad. Yes, lighter guns are nice, but being tied to your gun so you can't even set it down in the staging area isn't.

  26. #266
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    The real difference is that shadows get cookies and ice cream from the speedballers, where a sniper gets the beats. Also a sniper is really great at laying there like a fuzzy doormat whilst hiding.
    -famousgamer


    Thats golden

  27. #267
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    cost

    Quote Originally Posted by famousgamer


    kinda a cheapo version, if we cant get milling done. The backup plan kinda.
    Kicking butt on the field with the best weapon available to paintballers, PRICELESS!!

  28. #268
    LOL. It should be a VISA type ad after we get something built.

    Speaking of which, I am actually still torn on which mag to get? E-mag, rt ule custom, or start with a pro classic and work my way up?! Ugh. Help.

  29. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by famousgamer
    LOL. It should be a VISA type ad after we get something built.

    Speaking of which, I am actually still torn on which mag to get? E-mag, rt ule custom, or start with a pro classic and work my way up?! Ugh. Help.
    well, do you already have a HPA? if you dont, go classic.
    If you do, I'd say go for an rt ule custom. something like the pardigm pro: http://themagsmith.com/
    Last edited by FinchMan; 02-03-2006 at 10:14 PM.

  30. #270
    There are a few Ebay prospects that might pan out. I guess I will go for the best deal that presents itself. I can get a Co2 tank filled up literally two blocks away from my home, but HPA is a different story. Id have to find a place for that.

    I read that the Co2 actually give better first shot consitensy (spelling?). I am worried about freeze up from Co2, but would I end up encountering that if not throwing ropes? Its just woodsball after all. I just dont want to buy too much mag. I might not be able to handle it!

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