If ION's were SUPER cheap how would that change things?

[AGD]

AO,

So if the ION were way cheaper than it is even now how would that affect the paintball world?

AGD

[Aeronautica86]

AO,

So if the ION were way cheaper than it is even now how would that affect the paintball world?

AGD

Personally I don't think anything would change. At the current price, I believe the Ion is within the reach of 99% of the people that want to purchase them. I highly doubt that there would be a huge influx of new players to the sport if a gun like the Ion was sold at say $99. At most, SP would sell alot of Ions to people who would like an inexpensive electro as a backup.

[Ken Majors]

I don't think it would change the paintball world all that much.

What it would do is change where alot of the money goes. Instead of every other kid on the block owning a Tippmann, he would own an Ion.

It would possibly increase paint sales. Since the thing will shoot through a hopper in about 10 seconds on ramping. Everyone knows that every kid with an ion has a video on Putfile of him ramping his Ion and emphatically screaming that is on semi. So it would apparently increase internet traffic to Putfile as well, thereby increasing bandwidth and slowing down the internet

If they made an Ion "powerpack", containing a revvy, 47ci steel HPA, and a cheapo mask and sold it for say $199.95 at Walmart. Everyone would buy one. Then they would buy 2 of those white box, blue streak paintballs, and then go out in search of the place that can fill the HPA bottle. Once they find that the only place is the local paintball field, and it is FPO, and it costs $70/case. They would go home and paint the shed with the blue streaks while filming for Putfile.

Jesus....this could go on and on.

I think that if the Ion was significantly cheaper....it could change the world of paintball.

p.s. and I would buy one.

[Jotsy]

if they were way WAY cheaper? i guess we'd all have back up guns. they still won't be my main gun tho

[Lohman446]

I doubt it would be much more than they have already. I have watched several stores clearance out everything that was cheaper than the Ion to only stock the Ion after the last price drop.

Now if we get into the $50 cheap - where Wally World has them I think you would see the instances of paintball related injury sky rocket. I know some "outlaw" players play a no head shot rule because they don't have masks. There saving grace is a lack of paint in the air. Allow people not operating in safe conditions to put 300% more paint in the air and you are going to see more injuries.

[topazpaintball]

I doubt it would be much more than they have already. I have watched several stores clearance out everything that was cheaper than the Ion to only stock the Ion after the last price drop.

Now if we get into the $50 cheap - where Wally World has them I think you would see the instances of paintball related injury sky rocket. I know some "outlaw" players play a no head shot rule because they don't have masks. There saving grace is a lack of paint in the air. Allow people not operating in safe conditions to put 300% more paint in the air and you are going to see more injuries.

They do require HPA, so the average outlaw baller would still not be able to use them. I don't think they'll ever be mass marketed like Brass Eagles, if that's what you're talking about.

[Cow hunter]

They do require HPA, so the average outlaw baller would still not be able to use them. I don't think they'll ever be mass marketed like Brass Eagles, if that's what you're talking about.

nope they can use c02, and if hyou havent noticed, they HAVE been mass marketed, almost everyone has one as a main/backup!

[topazpaintball]

nope they can use c02, and if hyou havent noticed, they HAVE been mass marketed, almost everyone has one as a main/backup!

They require AS CO2, which places like Dicks and Walmart do not sell.

I meant mass market like Wal-mart guns; anyone can pick up a brass eagle from walmart, but you still have to go to a proshop or the like for an Ion.

[Pyroboy597]

The question really is... if the E-mag where really cheap how would it change the paintball world?

[sniperxix]

They require AS CO2, which places like Dicks and Walmart do not sell.

I meant mass market like Wal-mart guns; anyone can pick up a brass eagle from walmart, but you still have to go to a proshop or the like for an Ion.

ACtually now Walmart IS carrying the ION! I spoke to my local PB shop and they are furious. Walmart is selling the ION for only $10 above the wholesale cost Smartparts is charging them.
Soon everyone will have one for the low price of $118.88, and that's before Walmart issues the Price cut gimick!

[kingpen509]

I doubt it would be much more than they have already. I have watched several stores clearance out everything that was cheaper than the Ion to only stock the Ion after the last price drop.

Now if we get into the $50 cheap - where Wally World has them I think you would see the instances of paintball related injury sky rocket. I know some "outlaw" players play a no head shot rule because they don't have masks. There saving grace is a lack of paint in the air. Allow people not operating in safe conditions to put 300% more paint in the air and you are going to see more injuries.

I hope to god your joking about playing with no mask. Thats the dumbest thing i've ever heard you would have to be a complete tool to even risk it. Or maybe I just dont trust my friends enough to say for sure they wont shoot me in the face on accident.

[Lohman446]

I hope to god your joking about playing with no mask. Thats the dumbest thing i've ever heard you would have to be a complete tool to even risk it. Or maybe I just dont trust my friends enough to say for sure they wont shoot me in the face on accident.

I never said I endorsed it

[Arstron]

I could see it hurting the sales of other paintball guns. Why spend more money to buy a gun with no eyes (or electronics for some) when you can buy a electronic ramping gun with eyes? It would make the aftermarket parts for an ION more popular though.

I still dont think I would buy one for $100 though.

[AnthonyW]

I would'nt buy one but I'm starting to see alot of ions at my local field and many people selling their higher end guns to shoot ions.

[Aggravated Assault]

I'll throw one out: If Ions were way cheaper you might see Tippman take a hit as rental gun of choice. A practically disposable electro.

[Skittle]

Paintball would get worse in the eyes of the public. Youve already got jerks that go out and shoot people on the street or cars... you know, all the junk in the news.

When you put that with the fact that anytime you mention your gun to a non p-baller the first thing you hear is, "Is it full auto?". Considering ramping is virtually automatic (dont flame me, its true) you'll have those same jerks rasing hell with their new electro.

I miss the days when you would buy a spyder, learn the game, build the skills and then upgrade. Im only 19, I started pb when I was like 15 and my first gun was a Vulcan 5000 pump, then a stingray. Don't get me wrong, I'd never wish a stingray on anyone. It was fun an exiting though, moving from pump to semi, then semi to electro. I mean, when you start low and move up you appreciate stuff, you learn the game, most of all you learn respect for your marker.

Thats part of the reason many people see the sport as going downhill and destroying itself, noone wants to "play" paintball anymore they want to shoot paint, win, and be AGG. Thats cool, but everyone needs a good beginning. If you start small then I think its better for the sport and the player in the end.

[Aeronautica86]

Why spend more money to buy a gun with no eyes (or electronics for some) when you can buy a electronic ramping gun with eyes?

The same reason we and others spend considerably more money on ule mags and mech cockers and such with no ramping and no eyes - we like them, and we appreciate the quality over faster plastic guns

edit: but yes I do see your point as it pertains to the average kid just getting into the game

[Goldie D Pimp]

I've actually put some thought into the Ion craze lately. I was kind of down on them for lowering the market price, etc.

BUT then I got to thinking about oh..... 10-12 years ago when the spyder and stingray first came out.

All other semi auto's were $4-500. Then those two came out, proved to be semi reliable for $200.

Look what that brought us. It made the sport economically viable for many people who previously couldn't afford to have guns to compete against semi autos.

They were a big part of why the sport is as cheap as it is now.

While the overall impact on the sport won't be as great as the Spyder was, the ION is doing the same thing. They're taking the technology that only tournament players use and put it into the hands of the beginners with less money.

It does bug me that every 12 year old will be able to shoot 15bps at once, I think that's a problem that is deeper than just the Ion.


Thanks
Sam Smock
www.vaporworks.net

[mobsterboy]

It does bug me that every 12 year old will be able to shoot 15bps at once, I think that's a problem that is deeper than just the Ion.
Thanks
Sam Smock
www.vaporworks.net

No. Please tell me you aren't trying to represent Vaporworks here and say a statement like that. Stock ion boards are capped at 16 to 17(decimal difference), and they don't come stock with ramping. They come stock with bounce activation, and they have a way to set it to 15 capped, but its still not cfoa psp or any other ramping legal. And if we arent talking about bounce here, what are the odds the 12 years olds are really gonna read the manual enough to manipulate the board to full auto, which i wasnt aware it had.


Tom, to answer your question: It shouldnt but it does. It makes the mass AGG kiddie population think that if the ion can shoot just as fast as the shocker, impulse, timmy, freestyle, ecocker...why get any other one? Its also customizable (another agg thing. Its like the cockers were, with all the bells and whistles. You can make it what you want... )
so by the less demand, more start to break down and sell for less. So you have timmys, usually going for 800 are now 450. You have dm's, usually going for 900 are now 400 to 500. Then a mass panic hits and everyone wants to dump their guns, until the market is so saturated that you have to sell lower than anyone else in order to sell at all. Then the market starts balancing out. It seems stable, then ions drop price again, and guns are at an alltime low once again

[Arstron]

The same reason we and others spend considerably more money on ule mags and mech cockers and such with no ramping and no eyes - we like them, and we appreciate the quality over faster plastic guns

edit: but yes I do see your point as it pertains to the average kid just getting into the game

Yes I was just talking about the average beginer. The ION is a good deal at $20 for what you get, but why would SP want to take a cut like that on the product they are selling? Why sell a $300-$400 gun for $200, it only cuts back the money you and your stores make. IF they did cut the ION down to be a $100 gun I think there will be a lot of stores that will stop carrying them. It would make there store look bad when you have a ION and a new Freestyle FS-8 sitting side by side, the ION having a $100 price tag and the FS-8 having a $650 price tag. For that matter, having a new $200 electronic spyder with no eyes sitting next to it. If the store owner can make more off the other guns, then why have a cheap gun that you cant make much off of?

[Aeronautica86]

Yes I was just talking about the average beginer. The ION is a good deal at $20 for what you get, but why would SP want to take a cut like that on the product they are selling? Why sell a $300-$400 gun for $200, it only cuts back the money you and your stores make. IF they did cut the ION down to be a $100 gun I think there will be a lot of stores that will stop carrying them. It would make there store look bad when you have a ION and a new Freestyle FS-8 sitting side by side, the ION having a $100 price tag and the FS-8 having a $650 price tag. For that matter, having a new $200 electronic spyder with no eyes sitting next to it. If the store owner can make more off the other guns, then why have a cheap gun that you cant make much off of?

stores won't make less on the ion if the price drops; if SP drops the price of the ion, retail stores will drop their price too, but the profit will not decrease - for example, lets just say that SP sells Ions to Store X for $160 a pop, and Store X sells them for $200, this yields a $40 profit (well not really, but lets just leave it at that to keep this simple). If SP dropped the price that they distribute the Ion at to $100, Store X would still charge $140 for the gun and make the same profit (actually more cause they would sell more). This would still translate to a $60 price drop to the consumer. Of course the price of the Ion is likely to never decrease to that level; I'm sure SP has some very smart economists in their marketing team that know exactly how many Ions have sold and at what price they have sold and used these numbers to create rather complex aggregate supply and demand curves that allow them to determine the optimal price to sell the Ion at - in other words, even if SP lowers the price of the Ion, SP isn't going to lose profit because they will only lower the price to a level at which they will sell enough guns to increase their total profit.

[Pump Scout]

Why sell a $300-$400 gun for $200, it only cuts back the money you and your stores make.

I suspect this is backwards from what the situation really is. I think what SP has is a $75-$100 gun that they had been selling at $300+, and now brought down to $200.

As for what it will do, I think it's going to drive down the price of blowbacks. It's going to push paint consumption up, but I don't think paint prices will shift at all. It will boost sales of powered hoppers, especially if the rental market starts seeing the Ion as a serious option. Those will likely be the fields already running their rentals on HPA. I think that if SP doesn't come out with rental-color-only shells, they're out of their minds. I think it's going to further push the rec game toward what the tournament scene has on a regular basis, and the game will yet again become more unfriendly and attitude-filled.

With weather and money being a consideration here, I finally made it out to a field for the first time this year last weekend. It was to a field that historically has seen mostly DYE/Proto guns for high-end, serious shooters. The Ions now outnumber the others out there. They seem to have their share of issues, though. Come to think of it, the only guns I saw with problems at all during the day were Ions. Not sure if that indicative of their quality (I have thoughts on that...), but it was, to me, a look at what to expect.

[fire1811]

The same reason we and others spend considerably more money on ule mags and mech cockers and such with no ramping and no eyes - we like them, and we appreciate the quality over faster plastic guns

edit: but yes I do see your point as it pertains to the average kid just getting into the game

maybe you should do research before you post. The ION is not plastic.

[Aeronautica86]

maybe you should do research before you post. The ION is not plastic.

the body (cover) is and being plastic it can break; obviously no one here thinks that the Ion is 100% pastic - I would expect most everyone to realize that

[AutomagRT1483]

AO,

So if the ION were way cheaper than it is even now how would that affect the paintball world?

AGD

Define way cheaper. Like $150 instead of the already low price of just over $200. I see them all over the place now anyways as is. I really dont see anything changing except for the fact that we wont see to many new kids to the sport running Spyders and Piranahs, etc. It'll be Ions.

[Tao]

AO,

So if the ION were way cheaper than it is even now how would that affect the paintball world?

AGD

How would the paintball world change? Well not to be a pessimist but I imagine we would have the Walmarts and other centres carying them. that would mean that it would be the punks gun of choice. Most vandalism would result from Ions rather than the usual Walmart speacials.

Besides I would be wary of it even more if it were cheaper. It already is a plastic gun.

I think the question to ask is what if Automags were cheaper? Noobs of today only know Timmy, Ion, Angel (even though they can't aford them) and Tippman. Granted it may not be conceivable to make the automag cheaper but if AGD came up with something to flood the market it would be nice.

[heres where the real hijack begins lol]

The emag is a very nic gun and well built but what if we took back the features that really aren't needed but keep the gun better than the ion?

Take out the manual override, take out the big battery now that it doesn't need that solenoid, take out the level 10...(i assume that eyes are cheaper than everything needed for the level 10???)

Sight rail....gone

stock barrel...optional (most people buy barrel kits right away)

How much would that save? I don't really know of course. Market it like the RT custom. I bet a cut down emag could go for $500 new.

I don't mean to know all of the features on the emag Tom, I love them all, but people are pretty short sighted when it goes to a paintball marker:

Does it look cool/sex/agg/etc

how fast CAN it shoot (a very meaningless feature which usually makes use of the magical marker fairies)

How low of a pressure can it use (wow who cares)

How much$$$$

To reinforce the point of the ahemm ignorance of most people out there they all have back up guns if their main one goes down...this is laughable when I have mechanical overide BUILT IN!!!! :P let alone a gun which to this day has never GONE DOWN!!!

[REDRT]

AO,

So if the ION were way cheaper than it is even now how would that affect the paintball world?

AGD

Other than going insane with all the hysteria on the web boards nothing would really change.