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Thread: If ION's were SUPER cheap how would that change things?

  1. #1
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    If ION's were SUPER cheap how would that change things?

    AO,

    So if the ION were way cheaper than it is even now how would that affect the paintball world?

    AGD

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by AGD
    AO,

    So if the ION were way cheaper than it is even now how would that affect the paintball world?

    AGD
    Personally I don't think anything would change. At the current price, I believe the Ion is within the reach of 99% of the people that want to purchase them. I highly doubt that there would be a huge influx of new players to the sport if a gun like the Ion was sold at say $99. At most, SP would sell alot of Ions to people who would like an inexpensive electro as a backup.

  3. #3
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    if they were way WAY cheaper? i guess we'd all have back up guns. they still won't be my main gun tho

  4. #4
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    I doubt it would be much more than they have already. I have watched several stores clearance out everything that was cheaper than the Ion to only stock the Ion after the last price drop.

    Now if we get into the $50 cheap - where Wally World has them I think you would see the instances of paintball related injury sky rocket. I know some "outlaw" players play a no head shot rule because they don't have masks. There saving grace is a lack of paint in the air. Allow people not operating in safe conditions to put 300% more paint in the air and you are going to see more injuries.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lohman446
    I doubt it would be much more than they have already. I have watched several stores clearance out everything that was cheaper than the Ion to only stock the Ion after the last price drop.

    Now if we get into the $50 cheap - where Wally World has them I think you would see the instances of paintball related injury sky rocket. I know some "outlaw" players play a no head shot rule because they don't have masks. There saving grace is a lack of paint in the air. Allow people not operating in safe conditions to put 300% more paint in the air and you are going to see more injuries.
    They do require HPA, so the average outlaw baller would still not be able to use them. I don't think they'll ever be mass marketed like Brass Eagles, if that's what you're talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by topazpaintball
    They do require HPA, so the average outlaw baller would still not be able to use them. I don't think they'll ever be mass marketed like Brass Eagles, if that's what you're talking about.
    nope they can use c02, and if hyou havent noticed, they HAVE been mass marketed, almost everyone has one as a main/backup!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGD
    AO,

    So if the ION were way cheaper than it is even now how would that affect the paintball world?

    AGD

    Define way cheaper. Like $150 instead of the already low price of just over $200. I see them all over the place now anyways as is. I really dont see anything changing except for the fact that we wont see to many new kids to the sport running Spyders and Piranahs, etc. It'll be Ions.

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  8. #8
    I don't think it would change the paintball world all that much.

    What it would do is change where alot of the money goes. Instead of every other kid on the block owning a Tippmann, he would own an Ion.

    It would possibly increase paint sales. Since the thing will shoot through a hopper in about 10 seconds on ramping. Everyone knows that every kid with an ion has a video on Putfile of him ramping his Ion and emphatically screaming that is on semi. So it would apparently increase internet traffic to Putfile as well, thereby increasing bandwidth and slowing down the internet

    If they made an Ion "powerpack", containing a revvy, 47ci steel HPA, and a cheapo mask and sold it for say $199.95 at Walmart. Everyone would buy one. Then they would buy 2 of those white box, blue streak paintballs, and then go out in search of the place that can fill the HPA bottle. Once they find that the only place is the local paintball field, and it is FPO, and it costs $70/case. They would go home and paint the shed with the blue streaks while filming for Putfile.

    Jesus....this could go on and on.

    I think that if the Ion was significantly cheaper....it could change the world of paintball.

    p.s. and I would buy one.
    Last edited by Ken Majors; 04-27-2006 at 12:07 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lohman446
    I doubt it would be much more than they have already. I have watched several stores clearance out everything that was cheaper than the Ion to only stock the Ion after the last price drop.

    Now if we get into the $50 cheap - where Wally World has them I think you would see the instances of paintball related injury sky rocket. I know some "outlaw" players play a no head shot rule because they don't have masks. There saving grace is a lack of paint in the air. Allow people not operating in safe conditions to put 300% more paint in the air and you are going to see more injuries.


    I hope to god your joking about playing with no mask. Thats the dumbest thing i've ever heard you would have to be a complete tool to even risk it. Or maybe I just dont trust my friends enough to say for sure they wont shoot me in the face on accident.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingpen509
    I hope to god your joking about playing with no mask. Thats the dumbest thing i've ever heard you would have to be a complete tool to even risk it. Or maybe I just dont trust my friends enough to say for sure they wont shoot me in the face on accident.
    I never said I endorsed it

  11. #11
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    I could see it hurting the sales of other paintball guns. Why spend more money to buy a gun with no eyes (or electronics for some) when you can buy a electronic ramping gun with eyes? It would make the aftermarket parts for an ION more popular though.

    I still dont think I would buy one for $100 though.

  12. #12
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    I would'nt buy one but I'm starting to see alot of ions at my local field and many people selling their higher end guns to shoot ions.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Arstron
    Why spend more money to buy a gun with no eyes (or electronics for some) when you can buy a electronic ramping gun with eyes?
    The same reason we and others spend considerably more money on ule mags and mech cockers and such with no ramping and no eyes - we like them, and we appreciate the quality over faster plastic guns

    edit: but yes I do see your point as it pertains to the average kid just getting into the game

  14. I've actually put some thought into the Ion craze lately. I was kind of down on them for lowering the market price, etc.

    BUT then I got to thinking about oh..... 10-12 years ago when the spyder and stingray first came out.

    All other semi auto's were $4-500. Then those two came out, proved to be semi reliable for $200.

    Look what that brought us. It made the sport economically viable for many people who previously couldn't afford to have guns to compete against semi autos.

    They were a big part of why the sport is as cheap as it is now.

    While the overall impact on the sport won't be as great as the Spyder was, the ION is doing the same thing. They're taking the technology that only tournament players use and put it into the hands of the beginners with less money.

    It does bug me that every 12 year old will be able to shoot 15bps at once, I think that's a problem that is deeper than just the Ion.


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  15. #15
    I'll throw one out: If Ions were way cheaper you might see Tippman take a hit as rental gun of choice. A practically disposable electro.

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    Paintball would get worse in the eyes of the public. Youve already got jerks that go out and shoot people on the street or cars... you know, all the junk in the news.

    When you put that with the fact that anytime you mention your gun to a non p-baller the first thing you hear is, "Is it full auto?". Considering ramping is virtually automatic (dont flame me, its true) you'll have those same jerks rasing hell with their new electro.

    I miss the days when you would buy a spyder, learn the game, build the skills and then upgrade. Im only 19, I started pb when I was like 15 and my first gun was a Vulcan 5000 pump, then a stingray. Don't get me wrong, I'd never wish a stingray on anyone. It was fun an exiting though, moving from pump to semi, then semi to electro. I mean, when you start low and move up you appreciate stuff, you learn the game, most of all you learn respect for your marker.

    Thats part of the reason many people see the sport as going downhill and destroying itself, noone wants to "play" paintball anymore they want to shoot paint, win, and be AGG. Thats cool, but everyone needs a good beginning. If you start small then I think its better for the sport and the player in the end.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeronautica86
    The same reason we and others spend considerably more money on ule mags and mech cockers and such with no ramping and no eyes - we like them, and we appreciate the quality over faster plastic guns

    edit: but yes I do see your point as it pertains to the average kid just getting into the game
    Yes I was just talking about the average beginer. The ION is a good deal at $20 for what you get, but why would SP want to take a cut like that on the product they are selling? Why sell a $300-$400 gun for $200, it only cuts back the money you and your stores make. IF they did cut the ION down to be a $100 gun I think there will be a lot of stores that will stop carrying them. It would make there store look bad when you have a ION and a new Freestyle FS-8 sitting side by side, the ION having a $100 price tag and the FS-8 having a $650 price tag. For that matter, having a new $200 electronic spyder with no eyes sitting next to it. If the store owner can make more off the other guns, then why have a cheap gun that you cant make much off of?

  18. #18
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    Ive noticed and odd trend.

    Let me first say Im and indoor field air tech, and repair many things during the course of a busy day but recently since the decline in price with Ions ive seen a steady increase of ions that I have to repair... This has made me hate the damn things.. On a busy night I probally have to tear down and replace , relube or rebuild atleast 6-7 ions.. Previously before the price drop it used to be around 1 on a busy night...

    The sad part with this is that stupid freakin' smartparts made these guns a royal pain in the but to tear down.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackel411
    The sad part with this is that stupid freakin' smartparts made these guns a royal pain in the but to tear down.
    Amen!

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Arstron
    Yes I was just talking about the average beginer. The ION is a good deal at $20 for what you get, but why would SP want to take a cut like that on the product they are selling? Why sell a $300-$400 gun for $200, it only cuts back the money you and your stores make. IF they did cut the ION down to be a $100 gun I think there will be a lot of stores that will stop carrying them. It would make there store look bad when you have a ION and a new Freestyle FS-8 sitting side by side, the ION having a $100 price tag and the FS-8 having a $650 price tag. For that matter, having a new $200 electronic spyder with no eyes sitting next to it. If the store owner can make more off the other guns, then why have a cheap gun that you cant make much off of?
    stores won't make less on the ion if the price drops; if SP drops the price of the ion, retail stores will drop their price too, but the profit will not decrease - for example, lets just say that SP sells Ions to Store X for $160 a pop, and Store X sells them for $200, this yields a $40 profit (well not really, but lets just leave it at that to keep this simple). If SP dropped the price that they distribute the Ion at to $100, Store X would still charge $140 for the gun and make the same profit (actually more cause they would sell more). This would still translate to a $60 price drop to the consumer. Of course the price of the Ion is likely to never decrease to that level; I'm sure SP has some very smart economists in their marketing team that know exactly how many Ions have sold and at what price they have sold and used these numbers to create rather complex aggregate supply and demand curves that allow them to determine the optimal price to sell the Ion at - in other words, even if SP lowers the price of the Ion, SP isn't going to lose profit because they will only lower the price to a level at which they will sell enough guns to increase their total profit.

  21. #21
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    If the retail proce of IONS dropped radically I would think that either sales have plateaued or they have something new coming out and they want to clear out the existing stock. (Or both)

    I have seen people buy them simply because they are so cheap and for no other reason. Not because they 'wanted' them or because they particularly liked them. They got them just out of curiosity.

    If it were to go "WAY CHEAPER", then anything without eyes or a ramping feature would be almost impossible to sell. re-sale values would also plumet even further.

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeronautica86
    if SP drops the price of the ion, retail stores will drop their price too,
    May not be true - paintball manufacturers are notorious for undercutting their wholesale buyers -by selling the products at retail themselves for less then they sell them to their dealers for wholesale.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeronautica86
    stores won't make less on the ion if the price drops; if SP drops the price of the ion, retail stores will drop their price too, but the profit will not decrease.
    This doesnt take into consideration all the ions that stores have before the price drop. I dont see SP taking a bigger loss in their product so that a retail store can make the same amount of money, the stores will take a loss on their as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow hunter
    nope they can use c02, and if hyou havent noticed, they HAVE been mass marketed, almost everyone has one as a main/backup!
    They require AS CO2, which places like Dicks and Walmart do not sell.

    I meant mass market like Wal-mart guns; anyone can pick up a brass eagle from walmart, but you still have to go to a proshop or the like for an Ion.

  25. #25
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    The question really is... if the E-mag where really cheap how would it change the paintball world?
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigEvil
    May not be true - paintball manufacturers are notorious for undercutting their wholesale buyers -by selling the products at retail themselves for less then they sell them to their dealers for wholesale.
    Smart Parts is one of the industry's most reliable companies at enforcing MAP pricing. With the old pricing struction (when Ions were selling for 285 MAP), companies were selling Ions for about 140% of what they paid for them (I'm not going to disclose the new dealer pricing, but I figure the old stuff is more or less common knowledge by now since it can be found on PBNation). That's a margin that you don't usually see in paintball guns, and without the support of MAP pricing the market price would have no doubt been much lower than it was before the price drop. The Ion sells well because it's a low-price, high performance gun that dealers still make a decent profit on.

    If you want to buy a product directly from Smart Parts, you have to buy it at MSRP, and unlike another large manufacturer/distributor Smart Parts does not run their own factory direct outlet / store.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by NukeGoose
    If you want to buy a product directly from Smart Parts, you have to buy it at MSRP
    I meant a store designed to compete directly with other dealers. Sorry for the confusion.

    It's hard to say that selling Ions at 225 (and all other items at MSRP) is designed to take sales away from any company selling them for 200.

  28. #28
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    id buy one as a back up. Do i honestly believe i would perform as well with an ion than with my ripper or viking? Absolutley, but, the reason why i own the markers i do, is not only the performance, but, the nastalgia(sp) factor of having top of the line, hard (relativley) to attain markers.

  29. #29
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    I think itís an other way for smart part to run other paintball businesses out of business.

    they did all they can do it court so they are trying to do what they can with selling a high end gun (which I donít think they are) at low prices compared to other guns with same performance.

    I think it will hurt allot of paintball companies.

    But the thing is that if they are selling an ion for 200 but with almost the same performance as a shocker how are they able to sell the shocker? or should i say make $ off the shocker? Do they just make it up from everyone buying an ion?

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  30. #30
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    the low end market would be killed, every noob would be getting an ion instead of tippmann, spyder pirahna, and mechanical guns would be outdated.

    the market for paint would probably triple

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