Mounting pnue internals in other frames
What frames would you suggest?
I have tried to use an old impulse frame..but it just required too much work to fit correctly and was way too far back.
My real problems are the mounting of the mpa3 and the 3way fitting.
By and large I'd like something nice and cheap for my first run, as I dont want to demolish a nice chimera frame (though I'd likely mount the lpr on the foregrip, so I don't know how much I'd have to)
Any suggestions would be peachy.
i've just started this mod in the last few days. I'm using an Intelliframe as a prototype then i'm gonna move on to a Chimera frame 'cos that's the frame i really want, because it's a vert type, and there is rakes of space for all the parts with minimal effort. There's one problem with them though, they seem to be hard to get hold of....
Both have sold out at the mo. (Doh!)
The intelliframe that i am using requires alot of milling internally to accomodate the parts.
The 3 way is the easiest part to fit, go for a Fabco MSV-2 so you don't have to drill through the frame. The QEV (Clippard MEV-2) my version just sits in the frame loosely, it is snug though so there shouldn't be too much movement (i hope) when firing. The MPA-3 is the hard bit to site. Getting enough clearence so that the near sear arrangement is proving to be a bit of a challenge. I think i have it cracked now although i did ruin an MPA-3 in the process, however that enabled me to experiment with it without fear of ruining another one and enabled me to solve the problem. I can tell you this though, maybe you should go for the Chimera frame as it's probaly the least hassle. you could try ClassicMagger (on the AO forum) he may be able to help you as i have just ordered on from him.
If all else fails, Pneumagger could build you one if you don't fancy doing it yourself.
There's plenty of help from people that are doing or have done this mod on this forum, They've helped me loads!! Best of luck mate.
The forgerip install is nice andclean. Just drill and tep the VA for a 1/8-27 NPT (sold at hardare stores in pipe threading).
Then gat a mill or dreaamel and do a slot downthe inside of the rail. Take a look at shingo's pneu conversion picture site for ideas
Chimeras are the easy vert frames to work with...but IMO the logic verts give the lightest/best pull and I just like them more (that's why I'm making another logic pneu)
I really think the Chimera is the way forward, the intelliframe is an absolute ! to squash everything in!!! Check out Pnuemagger's new baby, it's a beaut!!
I figure going with a chim frame and a tickler LPR on the front end might be the best course of action. I would haveliked a 45 frame simply because everyone uses chims, but if it's going to be a huge pain, I'd rather get more experience under my belt before I try it.
All thats really left is getting access to a hand drill/etc to do the taps and getting all the parts in (It is a pain in the *** to get a tickler lpr)
After that I can bother with getting an xvalve instead of my stainless steel one...*is psyched*
Intelliframes aren't a huge pain at all. Take a look here http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=201247 This is a intelli I did. You can use all the best parts. A QEV isn't needed, (but go with the TRV if you must) and just shave out inside back of the intelli with a dremmel cutting wheel.
I think the intelli install is about 13 times easier than a Logic install. Plus there's more material to put the sear stop through so all it will need to stay put is a dab of locktite.
I have a chrome intelli that has an msv-1, mpa-3 and QEV if you want it...real cheap cause I gots my new baby . The MSV-1 gives it a bit heavier pull than the MSV-2, but fairly walkable with a ULT. All it needs is an LPR and I recomend a lukes piston into it.
if you really want a cheap frame to mess around with, cocker frames should fit automags without modification. You might need to chop up the trigger a bit and/or remove the existing mechanics, but they are indeed cheap.
...looking at a few other pictures on ebay, it looks like you would need to cut out a whole section for the sear and MPA-3.
Intelli is very doable... it's cheap if you can find one used. As long as you don't try to cram the LPR inside it'll work. I prefer to keep my Micro Rock LPR external... it gives my setup a raw feel.
Originally my frame used the MSV-1. The trigger pull was wicked short, but heavy. So I installed the MSV-2. With some Mod to the frame and MSV-2, it all fits into the intelli. I lost the short >1mm pull but gained a light "butter smooth" trigger pull.
Now my Micro PneuMag has been upgraded to Micro PneuMag 2.0.
Recommend the MSV-2 on any PneuFrame if you can your hands on one.
Damn, you didn't cut that arm at all.
I'll bet it is rediculously light.
Nice! I like how you dropped down the MVS-2.
Dropping the MSV-2 was fun. It has two purposes, to keep as much of the MSV arm and my mounting plate covers up all the milling I had to do to fit that valve in there... Plus I like the way it looks.
To fit the entire arm on the MSV-2 I had to trim off the sides so I can bend it a little. But I was able to keep 95% of the MSV-2 arm
Here's a pic of the arm before I bent it to fit into the frame:
As for how light the pull is... they only way I can discribe it is that it's smooth... really smooth and wicked light. The only problem I'm seeing now is that my lvl 10 classic valve can't keep up with the rate of fire *pop,pop,pop, chuff, pop, chuff...*
Never "chuffed" when I had the MSV-1... but then again i couldn't walk the trigger with the MSV-1. I'm hoping once I install a sear stop, it'll solve this problem.
sear stop not really needed and won't solve this problem. that is not why it chuffs. I've found 3 solutions to the chuffing problem...
1) More air flow - allow the trigger to open the 3 way more or up the pressure
2) add more shims to the ULT
3) replace the ULT with an the RT on/off
However, shingo... If you aer running co2 to that classic it will shortstroke. If you are firing very fast... you may outshoot the valve hardcore. What on/off do you have? For classics, I've found the best on off is the RT with a quad oring.
Running HP with a Pure Energy 68/4500 tank into a classic valve with original on/off assembly. I've upped the pneumatic pressure and seen little improvement. So my only option may be in a RT on/off. What is "Quad Oring"?
Originally Posted by Pneumagger
Holy god in heaven... You are going to cream yourself when you put a quadringed RT on/off in that and it drops the LPR pressure 50%
Trigger gets so much lighter...it might not return with that long of an arm
Quad oring (the long answer): a buna nitrile based oring of a lower durometer than teflon with an "X" crossection designed to mitigate oring rotation and allow for less squeeze thus relying on the crossection geometry for a self sealing action. Primarily designed for dynamic applications, it provides the least friction throught the motion of travel.
Quad Oring (the short answer): http://store.airgun.com/index.cfm?fu...&categoryID=24
Last edited by Pneumagger; 08-17-2006 at 05:38 PM.
I was hoping it would be a cheap and fast fix. RT on/off $28 + quad oring $1 + shipping... but it's cheaper then buying a whole new gun or upgrading to an x-valve.
So close to finishing this Micro PneuMag that it's starting to hurt! Can't wait to see my baby rip.
rumors report that rt on offs in classics valves can start to push the 19-20 BPS in hyperframes.
Here's a classic valve with straight co2 and rt on off with quadring - 14 bps
I'll be your huckleberry shingo.
I've got my old classic valve running 21 bps, with heavy modification of course.
seems like I've typed all this stuff in before, It's probably been a while.
seems like sometimes people don't take me seriously because I'm not able to be on the forum as much as I used to.
getting the most out of you classic valved pneumag:
alright first off,
use a sear stop. you want to control the sear accurately. without the sear stop, the back of the sear will go up and smack into the bottom of the on/off assembly. that pushes the on/off pin way farther in than ever needed. remember, things are different now. your not able rely on the trigger and sear pin length to only push the on/off pin as far as need be. now, the mpa pushes the sear all the way to the back of the frame. hell it will push it a 1/4"
that's way too far!! no amount of shims can be put in the on/off to make up for that.
NOW, the minimum needed sear movement is dictated by the BOLT. It MUST be able to travel all the way forward UN-HINDERED!! do not make the MPA piston so close it stops the sear from moving all the way forward. it should just barelt touch it. now take the valve out of the gun and look down inside at the sear. look at the part theat catches the bolt lip. it has to be able to travel down just below flush with the inside of the body tube. SET you sear backstop right there.
that is the minimum required sear movement.
now use an RT on/off. DO NOT use a ULT it does not have enough flow for the classic valve design.
drill out the top of the RT on/off to approx. .163" this will eliminate some reactivity that you are not going to use want, and it will improve the air flow significantly. do NOT go all the way through, just down to the four side holes. now drill out the 4 side holes in the RT on/off top to .125"
use a Quad o-ring just like the e-mags do. also change out the center o-ring to a buna-n o-ring. it will make the pin move easier.
either use ULT shims or make your own using some 11/32" OD brass tubing or something. you are going to shim it in the same place the ULT is shimmed.
that will get you to 16bps with a lvl10 bolt.
going even farther you can port out the valve body between the reg and the on/off chamber. drill it out one step at a time up to .116"
this will take you up to 18 BPS with a lvl10.
now if you need more than that with a pneumag, switch to decaff and calm down
I just wanted the chuffing to stop... I didn't know I can take my Mag so far!
The upgrade capabilities of Mags are just insane! Even a 6+ year old classic micromag can be pushed even farther. To be honest, I was a bit upset that once I install the RT on/off, it would mark the end on my Mag tinkering.... but now I can see a new goal! This is gonna be one mean Mag when I'm done.
Thank you Pneumagger and the electrician.
... now if I can just get the $$$ to get the RT on/off, shims and orings...