Is AGD DOA?

[eadtf]

Why is it that while other marker manufactures’ continuously develop and produce new technologies and improve on their past, AGD seems to be dead in the water resting on their laurels.

O.k. there have been a few improvements to the bolt assembly and several attempts to re-brand their same basic mag style, but I am talking about not resting on their laurels and designing something new and cutting edge.

I am loyal to AGD, I have an original RT Pro and a X-Mag but lets face it, comparing markers like the new Angel 1 to AGD mags is like comparing a Bentley to a Chevey Camaro. Sure they both get you from A to B and the Camaro has allot of possible mods and upgrades, but the Bentley comes with every upgrade, runs 100% of the time, has a great warranty, and almost never has a critical failure of key components.

Just looking to spark a discussion, trust me I am a loyal AGDer

After thoughts:

Bless LorneCash for the XMOD, but why did it take an AGDer to develop it? Why is it that nobody can find aftermarket wooden grips? Several of the top online shops don’t even carry parts or addons for AGD markers. Is AGD dieing?

[SlartyBartFast]

Why is it that nobody can find aftermarket wooden grips?

You want us to take you serious about upgrading technology and one of your complaints is not being able to find woodengrips?



AGD is long from dead. They just don't try to cater to the tourny kids anymore.

[Muzikman]

Oh god, not again. Do a quick search and you will find 10,000 threads just like this one with every possible answer you want to hear.

[eadtf]

You want us to take you serious about upgrading technology and one of your complaints is not being able to find woodengrips?



AGD is long from dead. They just don't try to cater to the tourny kids anymore.

After thought does not = biggest complaint...

You get the point I am making right?!?!

I would agree they don't cater to tourney ball but come on some new LIGHTER technoogy would be a good start.

Regarding "not again" Every thread here has been seen before...

[Muzikman]

Ok, name 2 guns that are not using technology that has been in the paintball world for the last 10 year?

The reason an AO member had to create the Xmod is because AGD didn't/doesn't want the liability that such software opens a company (or person) up to.

Is AGD dead? No, you can call the number and they will answer the phone.

Should AGD come out with a new gun? It would be nice, but if they are happy where they are currently at, what's the point?

Between 2000 and 2004 AGD came out with more advancments to their guns than just about any other company. Just because they don't relelease a new milling each year doesn't mean R&D was not spent.

Some where I listed all the AGD products to come out over the years. The amount of new products was amazing.

[BigEvil]

Ok, name 2 guns that are not using technology that has been in the paintball world for the last 10 year?

Thats 100% correct, but paintball has little to do with advancing technology at this point. It has to do all about marketing, and being trendy. Something AGD could not ever do.

However if you look around you.. you may notice lots of guys have or are selling off their mags. There are just way too many nice shiney new toys out there. In another two years you, Atacone and I will be the only ones left with mags.

In this day and age, not many players want to spend $900 on a new high end electro without firing modes OR an eye system. When you think about it, how hard would it have been to upgrade the software? How difficult to add break beam eyes at the factory? There are ton of minor upgrades that could have been done by AGD that would have at least kept things a little fresh.

I do see more and more Tacs showing up at scenaro games. AGD said they wanted in that market, now they have their foot in the door. Time to come out with something else for the sceario guys.

[eadtf]

Ok, name 2 guns that are not using technology that has been in the paintball world for the last 10 year?

The reason an AO member had to create the Xmod is because AGD didn't/doesn't want the liability that such software opens a company (or person) up to.

Is AGD dead? No, you can call the number and they will answer the phone.

Should AGD come out with a new gun? It would be nice, but if they are happy where they are currently at, what's the point?

Between 2000 and 2004 AGD came out with more advancments to their guns than just about any other company. Just because they don't relelease a new milling each year doesn't mean R&D was not spent.

Some where I listed all the AGD products to come out over the years. The amount of new products was amazing.

I could rebut but your missing my point.

[eadtf]

Thats 100% correct, but paintball has little to do with advancing technology at this point. It has to do all about marketing, and being trendy. Something AGD could not ever do.

However if you look around you.. you may notice lots of guys have or are selling off their mags. There are just way too many nice shiney new toys out there. In another two years you, Atacone and I will be the only ones left with mags.

In this day and age, not many players want to spend $900 on a new high end electro without firing modes OR an eye system. When you think about it, how hard would it have been to upgrade the software? How difficult to add break beam eyes at the factory? There are ton of minor upgrades that could have been done by AGD that would have at least kept things a little fresh.

I do see more and more Tacs showing up at scenaro games. AGD said they wanted in that market, now they have their foot in the door. Time to come out with something else for the sceario guys.

BigEvil thank you, you get my point... But add me to the list of dead-cold-hands gripping a my RT in one and XMAG in the other, I will never trade up.

You are right they did say they were going to put their efforts to scenario ball, but they need to freshen it up a bit.

[BigEvil]

I will never trade up.

I dont see a reason to. There isnt anythng that another gun can do that my mags cannot now. (Even though it required Lornecash to come up with the xmod, and me to make my own e-frame)

And to tell you the truth, most new guns feel like toys. I grew up shooting real firearms, so that plasticy-cheezy aluminum stuff just isnt my style. There is just something about my mags that I love. The only other guns that I liked were the older Angels, and you see where WDP went with their new stuff? The 06 Borgs are interesting, I may check them out, but I doubt I will pick up anything new for a while.

[Muzikman]

I could rebut but your missing my point.

Umm, I don't think I am missing anything. I am pointing to reasons why AGD has not come out with anything new lately.

BTW, even when the mag was the gun to own, there were few aftermarket parts for them.

[Muzikman]

Here, I'll place my preveios post in with your quote.

Why is it that while other marker manufactures’ continuously develop and produce new technologies and improve on their past, AGD seems to be dead in the water resting on their laurels.

O.k. there have been a few improvements to the bolt assembly and several attempts to re-brand their same basic mag style, but I am talking about not resting on their laurels and designing something new and cutting edge.

Ok, name 2 guns that are not using technology that has been in the paintball world for the last 10 year? <--- what company has come out with new technologies in the gun world? Maybe the software, but that's about it.


Between 2000 and 2004 AGD came out with more advancements to their guns than just about any other company. Just because they don't relelease a new milling each year doesn't mean R&D was not spent.

Some where I listed all the AGD products to come out over the years. The amount of new products was amazing.

Was the Level 10 bolt system a technological improvement on their past? Wasn't the Y-Grip a technical improvement on their past? Wasn't the X-Valve a technological improvement on their past (and a weight save)? Was the ULE bodies a weight saving improvement on their past? Wasn't the ULT a technological improvement on their past? Wasn't the ULE rails and frames a weight saving improvement on their past? Wasn't the WarpFeed a technological advance? How about the Flatline with all its safety features that other companies still refuse to add to their systems.

After thoughts:

Bless LorneCash for the XMOD, but why did it take an AGDer to develop it? Why is it that nobody can find aftermarket wooden grips? Several of the top online shops don’t even carry parts or addons for AGD markers. Is AGD dieing?

The reason an AO member had to create the Xmod is because AGD didn't/doesn't want the liability that such software opens a company (or person) up to.



Ok, maybe I don't get your point.

[SlartyBartFast]

I would agree they don't cater to tourney ball but come on some new LIGHTER technoogy would be a good start.

Uhm, ULE?!?!

A ULE RT Pro is as light as any other marker out there. No?

Or are you caught in a time warp where they only still sell stainless bodies and valves?

The woodgrips may have been an afterthought, but it puts you right out of the early nineties. I don't think you can buy new wood grips on the open market for ANY markers other than in stock class circles.

Been a VERY LONG time since those were the thing to have.

And a Bently, let alone an Angel One, running 100% of the time? What planet are you from? Not without meticulous maintenance they don't.

[Lohman446]

Gee.. as outspoken as I have been that mags are not "all that" your going to find one in my gear bag for as long as I play. They are great at being what they are. I told someone once, be you, your the best you you can be. Mags have a niche - they are, to many people, the best mechanical marker available. Why change. Who can be more of a mag than a mag.

Its niche marketing, know your market, and market to it. I'm sorry guys, making a mag competetive against the newest markers in a world of ramping, eyes, crappy paint, and accuracy by volume takes far more than most people are willing to do. Why try to be something you are not?

Mags are what they are. Niche marketting in paintball has been as successful as anything else. Lets consider Glen Palmer as the example. PPS is what it started out as, and they are still as popular as ever. Think of the "cutting edge" failures.

This is not a topic worthy of deep blue....

[hgp3fat]

Suggestions? Ok... I made a joke in another thread about MULE bodies (Mega Ultra Light Engineering) and actually had people ask me where to get them. AGD could find some way to make ULE stock, into MULE's (olive drab ones for the scenario guys, Government MULES).

For increased marketing, I suggested setting a Guiness World Record, and showed proof of how they could get free advertising from it.

I've seen it suggested they cut their losses with the Warp and team up with Q-Loader on a marker.

I have ideas on products and marketing I'll share with them (and you guys for free, I just want a free one). Newer automags use hpa only, but most people still have co2 tanks... well make a pod holder/cooling vest that uses circulating co2 to cool you down... In camouflage! Great for a teamup campaign with SpecOps or even OpsGear.

But does AGD really want a bigger share of the market? Or are they happy with their niche? Would you like to see the automag become the next ion? Or stay that cool band that you only know about... the one nobody else has ever heard, but they always say "That f'n rocks dude!"


edit- Move this to PB Talk...

[BigEvil]

Thats what aftermarket guys are for. Nothing keeping someone from buying the shiney, fresh, RPG mag with minor upgrades like ReTents, Viperblade triggers, Sub-Zero feednecks, etc.

LOL Blatant and shamless plug :-)

Like what...any suggestions?

Yes, we can talk. :-)

[Lohman446]

I've seen it suggested they cut their loses with the Warp and team up with Q-Loader on a marker.

TK once put up diagrams of a second generation warp that was marker incorporated... I wish it would have come around

[BigEvil]

TK once put up diagrams of a second generation warp that was marker incorporated... I wish it would have come around

I think they went as far as to patent it too. Something like that could be a hit with the scenario crowd.

[going_home]

I think they went as far as to patent it too. Something like that could be a hit with the scenario crowd.

http://www.turtlebackpack.com/

[Lohman446]

https://automags.org/forums/showthrea...highlight=volt

[hipster]

my question is with so many new style frames and boards available why is left up to us to invent ways of using them you would think that AGD, would atleast offer not just ule rails but ones that are compatable with these new elctro frame ( worr frames, e-blades ,etc)

they don't need to cater to the tourny crowd just make adaptable components

a new smaller battery would be be good they made a few prototypes just didn't finish it

I would think it would be time to come up with new valve that runs off of low preassure, seeing as adjustable tanks are slowly becoming a thing of the past and most high pressure tanks barely put out 700-800 and recharge fast enough to keep up with the e-mag and x-mag

there is room to grow with out making a whole new gun ( but whole new gun would be great)

[eadtf]

my question is with so many new style frames and boards available why is left up to us to invent ways of using them you would think that AGD, would atleast offer not just ule rails but ones that are compatable with these new elctro frame ( worr frames, e-blades ,etc)

they don't need to cater to the tourny crowd just make adaptable components

a new smaller battery would be be good they made a few prototypes just didn't finish it

I would think it would be time to come up with new valve that runs off of low preassure, seeing as adjustable tanks are slowly becoming a thing of the past and most high pressure tanks barely put out 700-800 and recharge fast enough to keep up with the e-mag and x-mag

there is room to grow with out making a whole new gun ( but whole new gun would be great)

DITTO ALL ABOVE...

I would love to see a 9 volt battery and a smaller battery housing...

[hipster]

lets not forget that all those bodies are slowly not being made any more the fact is many parts are harder and harder to find

[Muzikman]

Umm, to design a mag to work with a bolt on Electro frame would be a royal pain in the arse. AGD has always stuck to VERY tight tolorences for their guns because they have to. This is the reason so many MicroMags have had problems over the years. It's also the reason why a lot of Xmags have issues.

Now I am sure you are going to say, well, come out with a new gun, not a mag, that can use these frames. My question would be , why?

Tom built the emag with the solenoid and battery that it has for a reason. Now with the design of the ULT he could have gone with a much smaller 'noid and there for a much smaller battery. The problem is, the ULT came out after the Emag and AGD by that time was trying to avoid electros for legal and financial reasons.

[eadtf]

Umm, to design a mag to work with a bolt on Electro frame would be a royal pain in the arse. AGD has always stuck to VERY tight tolorences for their guns because they have to. This is the reason so many MicroMags have had problems over the years. It's also the reason why a lot of Xmags have issues.

Now I am sure you are going to say, well, come out with a new gun, not a mag, that can use these frames. My question would be , why?

Tom built the emag with the solenoid and battery that it has for a reason. Now with the design of the ULT he could have gone with a much smaller 'noid and there for a much smaller battery. The problem is, the ULT came out after the Emag and AGD by that time was trying to avoid electros for legal and financial reasons.

So according to you based on all of you arguing against innovation:

AGD does nothing at all to help develop the AGD line of markers because they will get sued for the trigger, solenoid, and auto software, so they should just leave well enough alone.

It's interesting how every other manufacture out there is doing all the above and not getting sued.

I suppose I would just like to see AGD on the map again and back in the stores.

[Muzikman]

So according to you based on all of you arguing against innovation:

AGD does nothing at all to help develop the AGD line of markers because they will get sued for the trigger, solenoid, and auto software, so they should just leave well enough alone.

It's interesting how every other manufacture out there is doing all the above and not getting sued.

I suppose I would just like to see AGD on the map again and back in the stores.

Where were you a couple years ago when there were very costly lawsuits flying left and right and good companies not able to take it and shutting down?

As for the ramping stuff. It's a matter of time before someone gets seriously hurt do tot he current rof and when it happens the industry will change and change fast. AGD has been involved with lawsuits in the past, they are smart people who worry more about your safety than their pocketbook. I would respect this instead of criticizing them for it.

The only way AGD will be back in it like they were in the 90's is to change the company name, build a totally new gun and sell it for under $300. I don't see that happening. AGD will always be connected with the Automag and the Automag will always be connected with the old stainless steel gund from the 90's. The only gun that was ever able to get out from the negative comments was the Autococker and that was becuase of the aftermarket folks. Mags are great stright from the mfg, cocker were not. It took a lot of aftermarket stuff to make a cocker a decent gun.

[eadtf]

Where were you a couple years ago when there were very costly lawsuits flying left and right and good companies not able to take it and shutting down?

As for the ramping stuff. It's a matter of time before someone gets seriously hurt do tot he current rof and when it happens the industry will change and change fast. AGD has been involved with lawsuits in the past, they are smart people who worry more about your safety than their pocketbook. I would respect this instead of criticizing them for it.

The only way AGD will be back in it like they were in the 90's is to change the company name, build a totally new gun and sell it for under $300. I don't see that happening. AGD will always be connected with the Automag and the Automag will always be connected with the old stainless steel gund from the 90's. The only gun that was ever able to get out from the negative comments was the Autococker and that was becuase of the aftermarket folks. Mags are great stright from the mfg, cocker were not. It took a lot of aftermarket stuff to make a cocker a decent gun.

I agree with everything you said, except I still don't think the software will lead to lawsuits. 300fps 1BPS or 300fps 30BPS, so long as people are maintaining the current safety standards nobody will get sued. Just my opinion...

[Muzikman]

30bps increases the chances of lens failure, eye injury, head injuries and other bodily harm depending on distance you are shooting at. If the industry want to play safely with these high rates of fire, they need to re-think the safety equipment.

Trust me, there will be a serious injury or death and it will be because of the high ROF.

[hipster]

half of those frames are either discontinued, of have an entire seasons wait to get

[hipster]

so most of the good bodies are no longer in production half of the custom frame are not in production/ try to buy a new dal, karta or cord , a new hyper from center flag or fro GA devil not going happen

and the reasons why the e-mag and x-mag are like they are is over the court cases are over
so now would be the time to make it way it should have been

there is no design that with time and inovation can not be improved upon
not to mention bb eyes , bodies made for them eye covers for them, not re used eblade rubber or compound crap

the mag has a lot of potential which AGD could capitalize on and do better than small in home shops and prob cheaper to

[Muzikman]

half of those frames are either discontinued, of have an entire seasons wait to get

Ever wonder why?