Superbolt solutions...

[Butterfingers]

This is what I would do.

1) Stop the sales of the superbolt for the time being until you can get this issue worked out. This way you can minimize your losses.

2) I have noticed in my bolt the thin section of the superbolt before the tip. The crack goes up along the side of the bolt then stops at the tip then begins cracking around the circumfrence of the bolt under the thick part. Perhaps thickening the delrin up would help.

3) Try diffrent materials. Delrin isnt exactly the stongest polymer in the world. Try researching materials that are more flexible. Shatterproof polycarbonate is a viable option. Ive dropped my polycarb nalgene trail bottle off 50 foot cliffs in sub freezing weather and it was scuffed up but never broken. The best part is the bottle only cost me 7 dollars at Eastern Mountain Sports. I recall a demonstration held for polycarb sunglass lenses it was shot by a .223 the bullet went straight through and the lens didnt crack. This might be a cost effetive option worth looking into.

4) In addition to physycal forces of driving the bolt. Perhaps the physycal contraction/ expansion properties of delrin as compared to stainless steel are causing this problem. For example: Temperature goes down delrin contracts around hard stainless core delrin cant take it anymore delrin breaks. IF temprature has anything to do with it.

5) Get those broken bolts into the factory! Intelegence is key!

[squidboy69]

maybe this is a little silly, but what about a smaller OD (by a few thou) stainless core, and a threaded delrin sleeve?

[carl j. bonta]

I made the first SUPERBOLT for my gun and Jeff Schriber's gun a year ago, and Tom's engineer was given the exact dimensions for the part, but he or they decided to take their own path with the bolt you can buy. I never cracked a sleeve and I had so may cycles on mine, I also played the amundson turney which was 10 deg. and shoot 2 cases thru it with no problem. Maybe you should be asking AGD for the style bolt that I made, also the wear issue everyone is so concerned about is meaningless because the bolt stops wearing after a certain point anyway and has no affect on the bolt the ball or any blowback problems.

[i-luv-my-rt]

Butterfinger i think you need to chill out. I now own Carl's gun with the original superbolt in it. I live in BUFFALO. Which now has 8 feet of snow accumulation. This bolt works perfect. Yea i totally understand where your coming from but you need to talk to Tom or an AGD tech about how there going to help you with your bolt. Truthfully i dont think it is a weather issue but might be. Instead of trying to run AGD and tell Tom what to do. I would see what he is going to do for you.

[Russ]

I agree that there seems to be a serious and potentially dangerous situation with the superbolts, but...

1) Stop the sales of the superbolt for the time being until you can get this cold weather brittleness issue worked out. This way you can minimize your losses.

1. You should not assume that there is correlation between cold temperatures and bolt failure. A recall and halt of further sales would be prudent at this point, I believe.

2) I have noticed that the cracking only ocours in the thin section of the superbolt before the tip. The crack goes up along the side of the bolt then stops at the tip then begins cracking around the circumfrence of the bolt under the thick part. Perhaps thickening the delrin up would help.

2. How many bolts have you examined? Jumping to conclusions, maybe?

3) Try diffrent materials. Delrin isnt exactly the stongest polymer in the world. Try researching materials that are more flexible and temperature tolerant. Shatterproof polycarbonate is a viable option. Ive dropped my polycarb nalgene trail bottle off 50 foot cliffs in sub freezing weather and it was scuffed up but never broken. The best part is the bottle only cost me 7 dollars at Eastern Mountain Sports. I recall a demonstration held for polycarb sunglass lenses it was shot by a .223 the bullet went straight through and the lens didnt crack. This might be a cost effetive option worth looking into.

3. This sounds like a good idea. I'm not so sure about poly carbonate, but a stronger and more resisilent polymer might be the answer, or perhaps just a re-design as per Carl j. Bonta's suggestions. Again, pure speculation at this point.

4) In addition to physycal forces of driving the bolt. Perhaps the physycal contraction/ expansion properties of delrin as compared to stainless steel are causing this problem. For example: Temperature goes down delrin contracts around hard stainless core delrin cant take it anymore delrin breaks.

4. Could very well be, again, speculation.

All in all, it's not good for Tom and AGD. I hope it all gets sorted out.

[BlackVCG]

I have one the first version bolts that Bonta is talking about and have had NO problems with it. I also have to agree with Bonta on the issue of the sleeve wearing. People are taking this WAY out of proportion. Unless you're using a bolt spring with a sharp corner at the end of the coil that isn't ground down or you're using metal nubbins that bend and chew up the tip of the sleeve, I don't think anyone should EVER have to replace their superbolt sleeve. Mine has about 10,000 cycles on it and nothing more than minor surface scratching.

If I had to design this bolt, I'd use an aluminum sleeve. No wear issues or chance the sleeve can crack, but it'd be a bit heavier.

I think there's a design problem with the current sleeve. Go back to the foamie style sleeve and make it exactly like the first generation superbolts.

[Butterfingers]

Jeez... So critical I was just offering my sugestions. Help help there are vulchers on my back.

I have a feeling that alot of you took my post out of context so to say... But thats just speculation...

Its like argueing over which way you spell ketchup... castsup...

Just offering a few ideas. Trying to offer my suggestions on how to solve this problem. Kinda like writing to youre congressman.

And no im not pissed about the superbolt. Chill out it was just a suggestion

Personally I could care less if sombody got clocked upside the head with MY superbolt sleve. YEAH WIPE THAT !!! Umm I think hes dead (prodding with barrel) JK JK Really...

I already talked to AGD. I am not worried. I can still use my stainless bolt. I even told the tech not to worry sending mine back 2 day air cause it was not a huge concern.

But you are right though it probably isnt caused by cold weather. It just got stuck in my head cause its so cold in new york right now.

A more likely scenario is overwhelming physycal forces on the sleve.

[nutz]

interesting ideas...

[BlackVCG]

Okay, I took a second to think about this. I've never actually looked at the second generation super bolt closely, but from what I can see here's my theory.

As the sleeve is being pressed on, the actual sleeve is expanding slightly as it's being press fit on the actual bolt. The face is part of the sleeve, but it's a thick piece in the center of the cylinder (sleeve). So if you look at it, the cylinder part of the sleeve is expanding out, but the center face is resisting that. I can't think of a better analogy to describe what's happening, but think of trying to bolt a round steel plate to another plate when the bolt holes don't line up. You'll never get it bolted on because that center mass cannot and does not want to expand. You just can't stretch metal, or delrin for that matter when it has some thickness to it. Draw an FBD for the entire sleeve and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Now, the only thing I don't know and if it's not happening then my theory is useless and that's whether or not the cylinder part of the sleeve is actually expanding or not. If there's no expansion, then there's some other problem. If it is expanding at ALL, then you're trying to stretch that center face and it's not going to stretch so something has to give and that ends up being a crack down the sleeve and the center face seperating from the sleeve.

Just my theory, normally I keep these things to myself, but I figure this is a safety issue that needs to be addressed...

[Miscue]

Perhaps a vibration issue? The inner bolt is vibrating, along with the sleeve maybe... and busts the sleeve? Perhaps put it on some kind of vibrating machine and see if you can bust it like that? Temperature sensitive maybe?

[magman007]

Ok, Let the temperature problem go. It ist out side temperature any ways. One of the people whose superbolts broke said that he was in california in his house shooting out of a window. So i a doubting that the ouside temperature has any thing to do with it. So here is what m thinking. When you fill a nitro or compresed air bottle, most places do it half@$$ed and the nitro is warm. So im thinking that the cooling of the nirogen from he expansion of the molecules is cooling the stainless core of the superbolt and it is having an effect on the sleve. THe sleve is moving very quickly and is causing friction whether it is air friction or bolt spring frction. Well what im getting at is te efects of rappidcooling on a warm object. If glass is warm then rpidly cooled it can break, same thing vice versa. But that is my theory. The heat differences is what is causing the cracking of the sleve. Now i dont know too much about delrin or is heat propeties ut that is my theory.

[Butterfingers]

As I said in my previous post ... The most likely cause probably isnt tempurature. Ill edit it to make all you vulchers happy...

Its most likely the design of the sleve thats at fault.

[BlackVCG]

magman007- Just so you know, none of the first generation bolts that are foamie style have cracked. Only the ones that are for sale now. If there was an issue of fluctuating heat and its effects on the delrin and stainless, I would think that some of the first generation bolts would be cracking also...

[Butterfingers]

Magman. My tank was dead cold when I fired mine. It was filled the day before.

[Russ]

Butterfingers,

I'm just trying to have a little in-depth interesting conversation, Don't take it personally. We're just expressing OUR opinions.

This kind of debate sure beats the "my mag rulz n wat barrel should i get?" kinda stuff that's all too prevailent on the forums.

I hate to see the superbolt failure situation get blown out of proportion, but it may be too late for that now. Bad news spreads fast.

My guess is that the delrin is being stretched a bit too much when it is pressed over the stainless steel bolt. Kinda like a balloon, it "pops", i.e. splits in 2.

[AGD]

Thread closed. Superbolts are being recalled. See recall thread in main forum.

AGD