why bother, it won't sell anyways. Stick to cockers and blowbacks.Originally Posted by G-Force Tech
why bother, it won't sell anyways. Stick to cockers and blowbacks.Originally Posted by G-Force Tech
Originally Posted by kenndogg
Actually, I really really want one...Originally Posted by kenndogg
...and Pneumagger even lives 10mins away from me.
(Sorry Joe, I love your work, but I desperately want to try a factory piece. And I still have your Cyborg. When do you want me to drop it off?)
Autocockers are the greatest markers ever made.
~The greatest BACKUP markers to AUTOMAGS!!
Only temporary, get'n a new sig soon.
yeah, considering you guy's can't take the time to put up a decent website(it looks like somthing I did when I first started webdesign) or follow through with any of your other products (I remember eagerly awaiting the release of your pneumatic marker and hopper over a year ago) forgive me if I don't put much faith in you guys.
you talk, but that's it. No action.
It's just going to be TAG all over again, only(hopfully) they won't take pre-orders.
I am have been wanting a pneumag, so I would be very interested in one of these frames...if the are produced.
Originally Posted by jaywmustang
SWEETNESS!!!!!!!! hopefully it will take agd style triggers
When you say AGD style triggers, are you referring to the exposed trigger portion in the trigger guard area?
The internal or hidden portion needs to be modified to actuate the pneumatic valve.
yes i would like to use the triggers that r offered now
Originally Posted by behemoth
I don't like the feel of electric Sypders because, while the pull is short, the hammer movment is the same (spring slamming a heavy hammer). This pneu frame would be prety much the same thing but with no batery.
On another note, I'd love to have one for my Mag though. I don't have the tools to make on and I can't by one from one of the really expereance guys (nice and clean) so if a real company makes it I'd buy it.
"Relax. Don't worry. Have a Home Brew."
Originally Posted by TheTramp
No, We are not associated with PTP in any ways.
Seriously dude, Im trying to give you a fair shake at this.Originally Posted by G-Force Tech
Id highly suggest putting together a working prototype to show before marketing said item here. Anything else makes this highly skeptical crowd rightfully throw the BS flag.
see? hell, our little AO drinking team (AFTICA) got to use the hAIR prototype for our games at IAO a few years back. And had it not been for the patent crap, I would of had one of my own in my hands within 3 months after that.Originally Posted by Warwitch
the moral of this story is have a working prototype, then market it to us. Because we are sick of business models that look like:
conceptualize a device for X
patent device for X
Market a device for X
also claim that you can shoehorn it into Y and Z
Market a device for X, Y, and Z
Research and Develop your device for X possibly Y and Z wouldnt work.
Then don't announce this yet! This always happens to us mag owners. You people thinks it's absolutely hilarious to announce a product that won't be out for 2 years and then ask us why we get so upset. Seriously, announce the product when you've got a working prototype and you have the production process all planned out. People don't like waiting that long.Originally Posted by G-Force Tech
The prototypes were done for the 68Super and S1 years ago.
So to answer your question, it does work.
We just need to put the same pneumatic internals into a new CNC machined frame to fit the Mags.
We are already getting helpful suggestions on trigger styles, LPR configurations and frame styles from other Mag owners.
Your post does not provide any suggestion to help at all.
Originally Posted by edweird
We are telling you not to screw us around like everyone else. In order to do avoid such a thing, you need to keep it to yourself until you have something visible that won't take another year to come out. Now you tell me that you're coming out with this and you've got pictures and all your ducks in a row, and I'll sing your praises. But this kind of announcement is bullcrap.
Originally Posted by G-Force Tech
Sorry bro, AO is like a woman who has been scorned... repeatedly. Skepticism is to be expected. We all are hoping for the best out of this,.. (But expecting the worst - no offense)
"I'm not happy unless you're not happy"
Good luck Garf.Originally Posted by G-Force Tech
Making parts for a very fickle Mag crowd wont be easy. I realize you are asking for suggestions as to the shape/design of the frame so that you can come out with a prototype as close to the final product as you can.
Just realize its been 3+ years that people here have been wanting and waiting for a production pneumatic frame. So this angst you are receiving isnt directed at you, per se. Just directed at yet another company who might possibly market it like PTP has, and then not follow through leaving everyone here without a frame and irritated.
This angst has been compounded by the fact that AO member(s) who posted info about the Do-It-Yourself frames have been contacted by 'unnamed parties' to have that DIY info removed under the veiled threat of perceived litigation.
Again, good luck.
You know guys. If you think this is all bullcrap, you could just ignore this thread. This is not the way to show we would want one of these actually made. We mag owners as a group whine and complain that no one will ever make a pneumatic frame, but when a good possibility shows up, we call them a bs machine and basically tell them not to make it. In fact, if I was in G-Tech's position, this kind of thread would make me think twice about actually making the thing. Why do we constantly shout ourselves in the foot? Automags.org is probably the last major place to advertise mag products so give them a chance maybe? If it doesn't come out, no difference. We continue as before. If it does, mag are sitting pretty once again. I for one am actually willing to make a mental commitment to buy one of these if I comes out. I haven't been here all that long so I didn't go through all of the problems that others have had with companies making mag parts, but I have found one thing, it is far better to be reasonable and polite with a company. I had a nitrotank that Nitroduck sent to a 3rd party tester. It took a month and a half to get it back, and when it came back it was damaged. I was , but in the end, they sent me a new tank for my troubles as they couldn't tell where it had received the damage. Treating companies like trash just because they make mistakes is just silly. They are people too you know. Not some evil monster which will eithier always do things wrong or right. I still have my ireg tank and love it. Would I buy it again, yes. Would I send it in for hydrotesting again, heck no. All I am really asking in my own long-winded way is give this a chance. Would knows, it might just come through. I think they could actually produce something awesome. I encourge them if for no other reason for the principle that any company that supports mags is welcome and should be given a fair chance to prove their claims.
No I'm upset because companies in general in the paintball industry have been doing this lately. They think it's perfectly fine to announce a product years before it will even come out and then expect people not to be upset when complications delay the release. Announcing a product way before it comes out is idiotic and reprehensible. It's being a douchebag is what it is.
Give the guy a break, seriously, you guys don't jump all over colin and dw like this, so give him a break.
First of all, garf, do you have a frame design in mind? Hybrid, 45, vert? Also a larger trigger gaurd seems popular around here, I suspect we won't be able to use our agd triggers, so what trigger styles do you have in mind? Can we get a picture of your pnuematics in one of your other frames? A video?
And I apologoze for the negativity and sometimes downright disrespect, but this community has had more than its share of false promises and extended pre orders.
Sorry, but he's announcing a product before he has his ducks in a row. That's irresponsible.Originally Posted by rudz
Btw, do you have any specs? Top speed? Trigger pull? Valve compatibility? Any information? Or are you just announcing an idea you had?
Originally Posted by warbeak2099
They are 'putting their foot in the water' so to speak... and the water appears very turbulent atm.
I stated above that I am trying to give him a fair shake, after all he is new on AO.Originally Posted by PanzerGen
That being said, announcing a product without having a working prototype in this circle is tantamount to marketing the flying car. And if we dont call potential snake oil salesmen out we risk getting off one treadmill for another. The owners group that we are, are indeed like a scorn woman, and we wont take claims of vaporware on faith alone anymore.
Please dont take the above paragraph to harshly, I was not calling G-Force a snake oil salesman, but making the point we do not have evidence that he has a viable product yet for the mag market. I seriously want him to prevail and offer us a fantastic product, but its important that he does not put the proverbial cart in front of the horse. We have all been bitten to many times to let that slide again.
We didnt jump all over Colin like this because he came to us with a product first and foremost. The guy did it right, and sadly got screwed over in the process, but we respect that. And when he stops getting screwed over im sure alot of us will reciprocate our respect with marker sales. Enough about Colin, its like comparing apples to oranges at this time.Originally Posted by Rudz
Last edited by edweird; 09-01-2007 at 12:43 PM.
Heya ed!Originally Posted by edweird
In all fairness, with G-Force having a patent on their IP, Im certain they have a working prototype of the pneumatic trigger/marker. Maybe not one for a mag yet, but thats just a matter of adapting what they do have to work with a mag. Which is exactly what they are asking for: the perferences of mag owners in what they would like to see in a frame.
What I do know is DW met the G-Force guys within the last few years and has seen their product, and had not a bad word to say about them. DW's respect for them means something to me, so I have reserved my opinions until I see something to make me believe otherwise.
If, if you made an airwalk style frame as a bolt on pneumatic option with a nice CP ASA or something I would buy it most likely
Or if you used chimera frames as a bolt on option as well, both are easily done then I would assume the market would be high..
I probably wouldnt care for an IT..
Our 68Super prototype was debuted at IAO many years ago. It was a double tube pneumatic marker. The videos show the 68Super shooting and the integrated body pneumatics. There was shootdown during the video which was from the air chamber not recharging fast enough.
The 68Super has since been redesigned as the S1 with a single tube but we decided not to release it.
As to specs, the trigger pull will be the same as the one you see in the video. We had another video show the trigger being actuated by a drinking straw.
Our company also made upgrades for the Autocockers and Matrix in the past.
We are not about to go to production for a pneumatic Mag frame not knowing if the Mag owners would even consider it unless we do our research first. Just producing a prototype frame just to show you is costly.
What would be important at this stage is, do Mag owners prefer traditional 45 style frames or vertical frames? We can not copy the AGD style triggers as they are copyright designs.
Originally Posted by warbeak2099
Last edited by G-Force Tech; 09-01-2007 at 01:24 PM.
Neither. Hybrid angle frame ftw. 86* frames are the best. Low profile of a 45* and comfort of a 90*. Examples:Originally Posted by G-Force Tech
Btw, please don't jerk us around on this. AO has really had it with people claiming to be coming out with pneuframes. This is like the last straw.
I would like to see either an 85, though a 45 is safe and will sell. A large trigger guard with an integrated lpr so it can be bolt on would be good too. As far as triggers go, a Critical style would be to my liking.
I hope this happens. You have at least one sale. Just avoid the whole pre-order thing if you can. It kills trust.
I likes me verts.
If you do manage to get one of these into production, i'll definately have one! Best of luck.
cool thanks for the info, I wish yall would reconsider doing a prototype frame even in a popular 45 or 90 just to show that you can cram all that into a frame. Proof of concept goes along way here.
whatever the frame shape/angle I think its of the foremost importance that you get the room to fit whatever pneumatics your system requires to run optimally, to tell you to cram it into a 90deg or 45style frame is cosmetics at best. Sorry to be of no help on the shape, but that is the utilitarian in me... ive always held to the mantra "what does it do, how well does it to it" first and foremost; outside of that is all fluff to me.
best of luck, I hope to see something I can potentially buy or compare to the other pneu/hAir mags ive used.
Originally Posted by BigEvil
exactly..which is why I stated my comments earlier about not bothering with the mag and moving on to other platforms.
I mean why bother when all you recieve is backlash when you announce something that can only improve the marker.
For some reason these people think that you owe them something, you don't. Move on to a customer base that would be more appreciated with your efforts (I know the cocker guys would eat this up). I have a spyder and cocker that I wouldn't mind outfitting a pnue frame with them.
Hell half these folks said that could make their own for cheaper...I say let them then.
Interesting, you are going to make an automag frame (maybe) and it wont use AGD spec triggers?
I dont see that going over well