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Thread: new round idea

  1. #1

    new round idea

    i have been reading all you guys have on "spin"and no offence but it is getting know were and begining to repeat itself we simply need to pin point the key factors as the biggest problems

    A. paint dont sipn
    b. shape distorshion
    C. barrel/bolt matching

    i think i have solved a and b by makeing a whole new round i went with a ovel but i sopose it can be adaped to a ball "thou balls are stupid to begin with" makes me feel like i shooting a musket. now i have no clue how they mold paint balls or how to mold my own so this is just theroy i hopeing for some good feed back

    ok to the point

    i drew up a shell on the paint program "not exatly cad but you get the point" i added inner soports made with the same crap as a norm shell just thicker and want to fill it with a "jello" style paint i figure the thicker consistancy will help keep the mass solid yet soft enof to pop i made the inner soports shaped so that they will give the paint/gell something to grasp in hopes it will keep up with the rpm's. im working on the gun to shoot it but heres the shell anyways o and plez excuse my grammer not my stroung point

    ok it dont seem to want to let me upload so ill try and link it to my myspace lol sory its being a p.o.s it got realy small font now lol i sory ill re post it when i figure this p.o.s out

    http://www.myspace.com/shadow3600

    its in my pics sory to do it this lame way

    also the pic is to small so if you want heres my email to my msn i can send it to you
    shadow3600@hotmail.com



    soyy the upload prosses distorded the immage i hope you can still see what you need to
    Last edited by Ethereal; 06-13-2008 at 03:33 PM. Reason: no pic

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    try using www.imageshack.us to upload your image.

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    I thought we settled on "It's never going to happen, paintballs are fine how they are, leave it."

    Oval paintballs have been suggested many times. Inner supports? How the heck would you manufacture that? Paintballs are expensive enough as they are, anything more complicated would make it too expensive imo.

    And what do you mean by your points b)shape distortion and c)barrel/bolt matching? Paintballs do not distort during firing, they distort when they are stored.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by questionful
    And what do you mean by your points b)shape distortion and c)barrel/bolt matching? Paintballs do not distort during firing, they distort when they are stored.
    Don't forget the impact. Although low pressure is supposed to distort the ball less, so that means that they're less likely to break with an LP gun, right?

  5. #5

    gee smart reply

    [QUOTE=questionful]I thought we settled on "It's never going to happen, paintballs are fine how they are, leave it."

    ya all advancements were achived throu that aditude

    by shape distorshion i meent if a ball is speed up on 1 axsis it expande around that axsis if the paint were to keep up with the rpm's of the shell this would most definitly be a problem as for you saying it would be more expansive not realy if a round was more like this you would need half the paint to hit your target pluss with the rediculas over priceing in the paint ball market i sure they can be made cheap enof but like i said i not no how they would do it if i new more about the proses i would make up a way

    as for your lp question i am not realy sure what your asking y would i use a lp gun
    Last edited by Ethereal; 06-13-2008 at 03:40 PM. Reason: i cant type

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    as far as distortion goes, just get closer. i thing you sprayin and prayin, so you dont get hit. its paintball. just have fun.

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    how would you feed them thru a hopper? the only gun these would work with is the tippman smg60 which had stripper clips. and that gun is obsolette. you would only get 15 rounds in the clip. last time i played paintball i think i used about 200 rounds in a game. sorry to be so negative i just feel that its time wasted to design a "oval" paintball

  8. #8
    do you people even read the post befor you reply its for senireo play most "real guns dont have a bucket strapet on top there gun filled with ammo and and the whole poing of advanseing the abilitys of paint ball is so peeps dont have to "sprey and prey" as it stands its either be good enot to get close enof to take them in 1 hit or "sprey and prey" the way i see it paint ball hase a crap ton of improveing to do

    and i said it would need a gun desined around the round the way a gun should be made and most guns only have a 10-40 round clip anyways and if you have any skill what so ever that should be more then enof

    if your not even going to read the whole post then dont post a reply plez if you dont have some intelegent inupt dont reply i not want the thread filled with senceless crap or the peeps who know what there talking about will give up reading it
    Last edited by Ethereal; 06-13-2008 at 10:48 PM. Reason: add

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    didnt mean to upset you. this is a forum and i have a right to put my two cents in. no hard feelings

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    i have been reading all you guys have on "spin"and no offence but it is getting know were and begining to repeat itself we simply need to pin point the key factors as the biggest problems

    A. paint dont sipn
    b. shape distorshion
    C. barrel/bolt matching

    i think i have solved a and b by makeing a whole new round i went with a ovel but i sopose it can be adaped to a ball "thou balls are stupid to begin with" makes me feel like i shooting a musket. now i have no clue how they mold paint balls or how to mold my own so this is just theroy i hopeing for some good feed back

    ok to the point

    i drew up a shell on the paint program "not exatly cad but you get the point" i added inner soports made with the same crap as a norm shell just thicker and want to fill it with a "jello" style paint i figure the thicker consistancy will help keep the mass solid yet soft enof to pop i made the inner soports shaped so that they will give the paint/gell something to grasp in hopes it will keep up with the rpm's. im working on the gun to shoot it but heres the shell anyways o and plez excuse my grammer not my stroung point

    ok it dont seem to want to let me upload so ill try and link it to my myspace lol sory its being a p.o.s it got realy small font now lol i sory ill re post it when i figure this p.o.s out

    http://www.myspace.com/shadow3600

    its in my pics sory to do it this lame way

    also the pic is to small so if you want heres my email to my msn i can send it to you
    shadow3600@hotmail.com



    soyy the upload prosses distorded the immage i hope you can still see what you need to
    i didnt see anything about "scenario play only" in your origional post.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by babyface
    i didnt see anything about "scenario play only" in your origional post.
    its in the picture i explain the idea in more detail you may not have seen the pic i posted it late sory for that took a while to figure out how to make it upload i been rying to think of a way to make the ammo but i do not no what the shels are made out of

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    i would think with an elongated paintball it would get wedged in the barrel when fired. what i do remember back in i would say 91' they were selling almost like a dart fletch for paintball but it was for a pump gun and you had to basically muzzle load it. when you needed to take far shots as in scenario play. yeah im old. ive been playin for a while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    its in the picture i explain the idea in more detail you may not have seen the pic i posted it late sory for that took a while to figure out how to make it upload i been rying to think of a way to make the ammo but i do not no what the shels are made out of
    There's a popular video of it, try searching youtube.

    They get a sheet of gelatin and pass it through rolls that form half-spheres, then squish two sheets together with more rolls. As the sheets join, they are filled with paint, and you end up with something that looks like bubble wrap. Or maybe the rolls that press the two sheets together also cut the now-complete spheres out. Anyway, find that video.

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    guys I directed ethereal here as from talking to him in person his idea actually sounds very interesting. I figured if there was a group of people who could help expand his idea it would be all of you. The problem with this idea of his is getting it to catch on and become the "Norm" for all players as well as fields since so many fields are FPO. Either way why not stretch your brains a little and help him figure out how is idea "could" work. If a working theory and design could be conceived it could and would maybe make a few people take another look at the rounds of paint we do use, anything is possible.

  15. #15
    i belive your talknig about the how its made video i have wached it like 12 times lol i have thought of simalir molding desings but the inner spoprts are tricky to mold that and i dont no what the shell is made sfor they would not say exatly mo matter hoy you look at it the shells will take a bit more to mold then balls do i got a decent idea ill got draw it up in yet a nother half *** paint ting lol

    thanks for the vote of confidance stud

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    i belive your talknig about the how its made video i have wached it like 12 times lol i have thought of simalir molding desings but the inner spoprts are tricky to mold that and i dont no what the shell is made sfor they would not say exatly mo matter hoy you look at it the shells will take a bit more to mold then balls do i got a decent idea ill got draw it up in yet a nother half *** paint ting lol

    thanks for the vote of confidance stud
    they said it's made of gelatin.

    I guess what you could do is place the supports in the oval as they're passing through the final rolls. Or place them in the cavities of one roll, then pass them through the final rolls.

    But I still don't think it's ever gonna happen.

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    I think a big point for ethereal is he wishes to try to make it for himself, regardless if it catches on by the general paintball public. Maybe finding a way to make a small set of molds to make the balls and a proven formula for the gel capsules and the paint that he could make on his own.

    Any ideas on how to make the gel caps and the paint?

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    That is pretty urealistic, but here's the best I can think of.

    If Perfect Circle Paintball could make you oval shells, for which they'd probably have to modify one of their machines, and if their machines allow the placement of the supports, you could have them do it. But it would cost a TON, and is EXTREMELY unlikely.

    I'll get you a paint recipe, you can find them on ASP's patent thing.

    http://www.airsoldier.com/~haveblue/...S004656092.pdf
    http://www.airsoldier.com/~haveblue/...S003861943.pdf
    http://www.airsoldier.com/~haveblue/...S004634606.pdf
    http://www.airsoldier.com/~haveblue/...S005393054.pdf



    BTW here's a patent that looks like it's just about exactly your idea. Didn't read much, just judging by the pictures. It's from 1995.

    http://www.airsoldier.com/~haveblue/...S005448951.pdf
    Last edited by questionful; 06-16-2008 at 03:51 PM.

  19. #19
    none of your links will show up the domloaded file will not work thou i thank you for the tip ill see if i can find there site and rember almose all great inventions are thought of as ulrealistic or unpractical "spelled that realy bad lol' untill it has money behind it lol bill gates had to make a a dozen comps in his grage now look at him tesla was thought to be crazy granted this my not be quite that important of a invention lol but its not my only project its only the first step to a gassless gun

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    Look man, everyone has the right to pursue crazy ideas, I know I've had my share. And you're right, some of them end up working (none of mine have )! Good luck.
    To see the patents you probably need Adobe reader or something since it's a PDF.

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    Wouldnt a round like that hurt more on impact?

    Not saying im a sissy, but it seems to me that even a "slightly" more pointed round would hurt more, and leave longer lasting welts.

  22. #22
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    No offense, but this idea really isn't anything new. Football or oval shaped paintballs and sectioned fills have both been discussed repeatedly, and every time the idea is abandoned as impractical. Do a search here and you'll find a lot of people who also thought they were the first ones to think of making an oval paintball.

    Your first problem is making sure it would be safe. Paintballs can't weigh over 3.5g for safety reasons, and if this oval paintball is to be .68" it probably would. That would mean you'd need to make it smaller, so not only would you need a new magazine-fed system and redesigned feedneck, but you'd need a smaller barrel, redesigned breach and a new, smaller bolt. In order to even get this into a paintball marker, you'd have to redesign the marker almost from the ground up. Then you have to come up with a way to spin it. Conventional rifling has to really bite into a round to impart any real spin on it, so you either have to come up with a new way to spin it or make it tough enough to withstand the lands digging into it. Since air rifling doesn't work (sorry, Smart Parts) and making it tougher makes it more dangerous, that's going to be quite a problem. Keep in mind that the 300fps limit we have today is to keep paintballs just this side of being able to break fingers - and that's with a round that's not toughened or pointed, nevermind the semi-solid fill you're talking about. I'd bet R&D for the marker, feed system and rifling plus the cost of safety testing a round like this would be pretty hefty. Also, that's no guarantee this would actually work - football shaped paintballs (and even some with fins) were considered for the FN303, but they opted for a half hemispherical, half cylindrical weighted design instead because the football rounds just weren't accurate enough.

    Your next problem is making the round. Those paintball machines don't come cheap - figures I've heard were all six figures, and that's just for ordinary machines. The round you're talking about would need a highly customized machine, not just for the oval shape of the round but for the dividers inside it. Traditional paintball manufacturing equipment rolls out two sheets of gelatin and then simultaneously stamps them together and fills them. Divided paintballs would require a third sheet in between and probably a second injector, and from the look of your pictures it seemed like you were thinking about paintballs divided twice. That would be one hell of an expensive custom machine, and you'd be lucky to get consistent rounds out of it.

    Your biggest problem would be getting people to actually buy it. I doubt it would work well enough that people would abandon the ease of dumping pods into a hopper to hand prepare every magazine for their marker, especially when it's as low-capacity as this system would be. Plus it's not like they could throw it on their existing marker, they'd have to use your proprietary marker just to shoot your proprietary round. (How are RAP4's .40" markers doing, by the way? Or that .50" Crosman revolver? Or Tippmann's .60" markers?) Then you'd have to convince fields to let you use it there, which would probably involve sponsoring that industry safety review that includes your rounds. And all this is banking on the assumptions that a) the round would actually be more accurate, b) the round would actually be safe, and c) you could pry people's HALO Bs out of their hands. Good luck.

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    Thanks for taking the time to explain it well TPG.

    Ethereal, just get an RT and make up for the loss in accuracy with MORE VOLUME!!! MOREE!!! RRAWAR MNOM MNOM

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    ^^^ nice post pixel.. also a word of advice for you.. use a word processor then copy paste, it will clean up your posts alot!

    Now im pretty sure that the gelatin machines that they use for paintball are the same machines used for making Pharmaceutical capsules so your idea would not be impossible. one thing you havent looked at is if it is football shaped then the pressure on the tail could cause the nose to dive ultimately breaking the round long before your design does anything useful! Again then you also have to find a way to get the spin needed on it because with out that the nose will not stabalize in the air causing fatal instability. finally the absolute fact is that with a good barrel match the accuracy is actually really good the variation is mostly due to the fact that the marker cant fire it at a perfect speed its always plus or minus 3 at the minimum. but good luck with your idea i hope it works out for you.
    VV04962 yeah thats my Pewter CnC X-mag

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enemy
    with a good barrel match the accuracy is actually really good the variation is mostly due to the fact that the marker cant fire it at a perfect speed its always plus or minus 3 at the minimum.
    That would only explain elevation inconsistency, not lateral inconsistency. Light, fluid-filled, spherical projectiles are just not very good, but it's something paintball will have to live with, and something that in my opinion is something we can learn to deal with. Think of it like playing stock class. You're giving yourself a disadvantage to have fun challenging yourself to work your way around an obstacle.
    Or just keep thinking.

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    Ok, I think I know what you are trying to do, but I also think that you are over-engineering it a bit. But, I think that you have some interesting ideas to toy around with. The gellatin fill is a good idea, at first. If you have a thicker fill, then it will resist spinning inside the shell, but will tend to spin with the shell. But, you do want to be able to mark your target when it hits. Too thick and it wont be easy to tell if you have been marked. That may be a problem to deal with later. As for the inside supports, that seems to be a bit of a manufacturing nightmare. But, how about this: No supports, but make the inside of the shell (one side of the gellatin sheet) a rough texture to grab the thicker fill and spin the fill with the shell. Not perfect, but not hard to do either. When the gell sheet is made, just have one side of the rollers dimple it with the geometric shape of your choice before it goes to the ball press. Then when the ball is formed, the thicker fill will tend to rotate in the direction of the shell. You dont have to design a new gun, or loader. It will work in any gun or barrel on the market, but may perform better in the rifled barrels. Just my thoughts on this.
    WOW, sigs. Havent seen these in a while here on AO.

  27. #27
    as far a a michine to creat it i have 4 varients of the idea and 4 michiens to make it lol its not a problem and easy to make the fill simply neeeds to be tested at diff consistancys to see how low it can go befor loosing its spin also the blades in the berrel will shave a few tou off the caseing as well not to mention the round would be only .30- .38 simply cause it needs less mass to go that far if it is stabilised my spin so safty preformance and manufacuuring is not a problem the idea simply needs resorces to be tested and made

    also even it the rount is imperfect the spin corrects such inconsitancys so it would not matter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enemy
    ^^^ nice post pixel.. also a word of advice for you.. use a word processor then copy paste, it will clean up your posts alot!
    There's not much point when you have a browser that spellchecks for you and your word processor of choice isn't much more complicated than a text box.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enemy
    finally the absolute fact is that with a good barrel match the accuracy is actually really good the variation is mostly due to the fact that the marker cant fire it at a perfect speed its always plus or minus 3 at the minimum. but good luck with your idea i hope it works out for you.
    I've shot perfectly consistent strings over the chrono and the balls still end up in different places - the knuckleball effect will prevent our paintballs from ever being perfectly accurate.

    Quote Originally Posted by kruger
    When the gell sheet is made, just have one side of the rollers dimple it with the geometric shape of your choice before it goes to the ball press. Then when the ball is formed, the thicker fill will tend to rotate in the direction of the shell. You dont have to design a new gun, or loader. It will work in any gun or barrel on the market, but may perform better in the rifled barrels. Just my thoughts on this.
    Good theory and it would probably work, but lateral spin doesn't help spheres anyway. Tom Kaye proved that even with the shell and fill spinning at up to 30,000rpm there was still no accuracy increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    as far a a michine to creat it i have 4 varients of the idea and 4 michiens to make it lol its not a problem and easy to make the fill simply neeeds to be tested at diff consistancys to see how low it can go befor loosing its spin also the blades in the berrel will shave a few tou off the caseing as well not to mention the round would be only .30- .38 simply cause it needs less mass to go that far if it is stabilised my spin so safty preformance and manufacuuring is not a problem the idea simply needs resorces to be tested and made

    also even it the rount is imperfect the spin corrects such inconsitancys so it would not matter
    How is safety not a problem? You're shooting a harder, pointed round with internal supports and a thick fill and concentrating that same force in a smaller area. And you really have 4 machines to make paintballs? Why have you not started your own factory yet? And what reason do you have to think that even if you invested the seven figures you'd probably need to get this going that it would even work?

  29. #29
    sory ment to say i desined 4 michiens i did not make them and safty is not a problem cause its a smaller mass and the soports are ment to colaps lol there not steal lol there probly no stronger then a wet tooth pick and were not sure of the consistancy of the fill may be no diff from jello

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal
    as far a a michine to creat it i have 4 varients of the idea and 4 michiens to make it lol its not a problem and easy to make the fill simply neeeds to be tested at diff consistancys to see how low it can go befor loosing its spin also the blades in the berrel will shave a few tou off the caseing as well not to mention the round would be only .30- .38 simply cause it needs less mass to go that far if it is stabilised my spin so safty preformance and manufacuuring is not a problem the idea simply needs resorces to be tested and made

    also even it the rount is imperfect the spin corrects such inconsitancys so it would not matter
    You designed four machines eh? What do you mean by that? I'd like to know more about them.

    You seem to think this is just a matter of getting someone to do it? Sorry if I sound negative, but this is the internet, I don't know you, you have bad spelling/punctuation -- you might be a millionaire genius with tons of experience, but from what I see here I have to assume you're just some guy with an extremely unrealistic idea.

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