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Thread: XMOD Use Agreement (no legal garbage)

  1. #31
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    Lorne,

    At what point did you think it was a good idea for programmers? Was this not to be a profitable venture? Did you really think people would buy one, and NOT flash all their guns, their friends guns, and since this is a somewhat tight group of guys, their e-friends's guns? Or did you not care? Was this for the "betterment of the AGD Community?"

    Hence why places like NOX will flash boards for a set 35 bucks.

    If someone wanted something better than AGD3.2 (most everyone since that software has long since been outdated.) and was willing to pay 35-50 bucks to have their board flashed, dont you think they wouldve done it to other guns / told their friends?

    If you wanted to make money, that was the way to go.
    If you wanted to do this for the betterment of the community, or for any reason other than straight profit, the programmers are a good idea. But at what point can you reverse yourself, decide you wanted to make a profit instead, and try to say "Oh, well if you sell it. Take it off, and if you have it, give me 50 dollars. But i'm not going to force you...."

    To me it just dont make sense.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by LorneCash
    I have also promised to post the fully commented source code when the last of my programmers sell... I have 24 left and when they're gone they're gone and I'm washing my hands of this project.
    So are you then stating that people can flash others markers for profit? Are you giving up your license agreement after the 24 that are left sell? Will you make any other programmers after the 24 are sold?

  3. #33
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by LorneCash
    The only way to get the software is to buy a programmer. I don't flash guns nor do I allow anyone who buys one of my programmers to flash guns. I know I can't enforce that but that is what I ask. I'm not trying to be mean I put a lot of hard work into this and it's only fair that I am the one that benefits from it.
    Taken from here :

    http://cgi.ebay.com/E-Mag-X-Mag-Ramp...3286.m14.l1318


    Honestly I couldnt get the software on an Emag I had.
    Its not as easy as its made out to be.
    I dont have any Emags any more but this thread popping up after all this time seems to indicate money misfortunes by the inventor.

    The genie is already out of the bottle now. The software should have been patented and sold on CD's instead of a free download. To little to late, to try and cash in now.
    Dont act surprised because you got hammered when you posted this post.
    Unfortunately because of the way you went about this project, this post will not make any friends in this forum for you. The criticism is deserved in my humble opinion.

    I think its awesome software, and kudos to you, but this post was a bad idea sir.


  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruler_Mark
    Yeap I do not do that anymore. I do agd software flashes for free, talking to lorne on a resolution for xmod flashes.


    Edit: as to the license, He can alter/edit it at anytime.
    Are you a Certified AGD Tech? If not, you have no right distributing AGD software either. This software is also copyrighted.
    Email me for low prices on ALL AGD Products and more. tunaman5@verizon.net
    Tunamart

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MANN
    So are you then stating that people can flash others markers for profit? Are you giving up your license agreement after the 24 that are left sell? Will you make any other programmers after the 24 are sold?
    once they are sold I will not be making any more programmers or cables for anyone.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruler_Mark
    Edit: as to the license, He can alter/edit it at anytime.
    I don't see any license agreement that you need to agree to on his Ebay page, nor do I see one on his website that you need to agree to before downloading the software. I also I don't remember getting any licensing paperwork in the package I recieved when I bought mine, so what license did anyone purchasing the programmer agree to?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by robnix
    I don't see any license agreement that you need to agree to on his Ebay page, nor do I see one on his website that you need to agree to before downloading the software. I also I don't remember getting any licensing paperwork in the package I recieved when I bought mine, so what license did anyone purchasing the programmer agree to?
    I'll take "None" for 500, Alex.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigEvil
    If it wasnt for the Xmod, the Emag would be dead and buried.
    I'd would say dead in the water just with universal boards in them.

    Come on AO where is the integrity that we all claim AO has over other forums
    All that he's asking is you have the right morals, not give out the software for free, and pay him for what is fair. Just think if you where in his shoes.

    Lorne: As a Xmod programmer owner I have sold emags in the past with your software on it. If I would have known that you wanted to be paid for each of them that didn't sell with the programmer, I would have flashed them with the stock software that it came with from AGD. Out of respect for you and your software I will honor your request from now on and forward you any money made from the benefit of your software. I hope you know that there are still honorable people on AO and hope to see more from you in the future......

    AO: Do the right thing and stand by your values from this day forward. Pay Lorne for what he deserves.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingpootang
    I'd would say dead in the water just with universal boards in them.

    Come on AO where is the integrity that we all claim AO has over other forums :confused:
    All that he's asking is you have the right morals, not give out the software for free, and pay him for what is fair. Just think if you where in his shoes.

    Lorne: As a Xmod programmer owner I have sold emags in the past with your software on it. If I would have known that you wanted to be paid for each of them that didn't sell with the programmer, I would have flashed them with the stock software that it came with from AGD. Out of respect for you and your software I will honor your request from now on and forward you any money made from the benefit of your software. I hope you know that there are still honorable people on AO and hope to see more from you in the future......

    AO: Do the right thing and stand by your values from this day forward. Pay Lorne for what he deserves.
    this is what i've been thinking through this whole thread , this is AO home of the straight up paintballer , that one of the big things to me about being a Magger ; honesty & integrity

  10. #40
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    You all confuse me.

  11. #41
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    Some people have said "this software should have been patented" and implying that it was the programmers fault for trusting the purchasers...

    isn't that the opposite of the AO community? Don't we usually get up in arms when SP or anyone else claims a PB technology as their own? The software he sells is the only real e-mag upgrade to hit for the last 5 years... and how does he get treated over that? He should have patented it if you wanted to get paid? Is that really where AO is at now??
    Tom was the last of a now extinct breed, a breed of players who build a community, a breed of owners who gave to the sport never taking more than what they deserved. I hope to see you at the feild again some day....

  12. #42
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    Finally after thirty seven posts in this thread, post thirty eight and thirty nine show the light.

    Besides BigEvil where he quoted one of my posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruler_Mark
    Yeap I do not do that anymore.
    Ya but, but , but.....how many DID you do????
    Last edited by Beemer; 07-02-2008 at 06:20 PM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tunaman
    Are you a Certified AGD Tech? If not, you have no right distributing AGD software either. This software is also copyrighted.

    I doubt they can stop you from removing the flash off of the board and placing it on another. If this was an issue I presume I would have been contacted sooner. If I missed some license somewhere on it please lmk.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beemer
    Finally after thirty seven posts in this thread, post thirty eight and thirty nine show the light.

    Besides BigEvil where he quoted one of my posts.



    Ya but, but , but.....how many DID you do????
    As I told Lorne in a pm, only 3 or 4 past my 2 personal emags and one of my friend's. You will be surprized how many emags have the code vs agd software. Everyone would think I have done alot etc but when you do not advertise something you will be surprized how many actually happen. I didnt want todo any flashes tbh, but if you can provide something for somone on a budget why not?
    Last edited by Ruler_Mark; 07-02-2008 at 07:13 PM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruler_Mark
    why not?
    Because nowhere is it stated that you shouldnt. Infact, its been common practice since the software has been on the market.

    Thats "why not"

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by behemoth
    Because nowhere is it stated that you shouldnt. Infact, its been common practice since the software has been on the market.

    Thats "why not"
    Well yes, yes it is. I guess you just failed as others have to READ.

    What part is it you dont understand again???????? Read the thread again.

    Quote Originally Posted by LorneCash
    The only way to get the software is to buy a programmer. I don't flash guns nor do I allow anyone who buys one of my programmers to flash guns. I know I can't enforce that but that is what I ask. I'm not trying to be mean I put a lot of hard work into this and it's only fair that I am the one that benefits from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruler_Mark
    I doubt they can stop you from removing the flash off of the board and placing it on another. If this was an issue I presume I would have been contacted sooner. If I missed some license somewhere on it please lmk.


    As I told Lorne in a pm, only 3 or 4 past my 2 personal emags and one of my friend's. You will be surprized how many emags have the code vs agd software. Everyone would think I have done alot etc but when you do not advertise something you will be surprized how many actually happen. I didnt want todo any flashes tbh, but if you can provide something for somone on a budget why not?
    I would seriously love to engage you and goinghome and others in this thread but alas I will not. I will say this in hopes that you GET it. The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys and if you want to play you have to pay.

    As far as AGD goes did you get permission to flash boards with their software????
    Last edited by Beemer; 07-02-2008 at 09:54 PM.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beemer
    I would seriously love to engage you and goinghome and others in this thread but alas I will not. I will say this in hopes that you GET it. The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys and if you want to play you have to pay.

    As far as AGD goes did you get permission to flash boards with their software????
    Ahhh but I do get it sir.
    Its Paul that doesnt by evidence of this thread.
    He had an opportunity to make some money (albeit not much because as we know AGD stopped production of Emags) but he chose to give the software away for free.
    Now he supposedly takes the high ground and demands money when he himself chose to give it away from the start ? Give me a break.
    Show me the licensing agreement man.... put up or shut up is basically where it stands now.
    And that my friend is what the mag community has very plainly said, they do get it sir !

    Thats my humble opinion, not worth much but there it is anyways.
    And like I said, I dont own anything electronic from AGD any more.
    Doubtful I ever will again. The mech mag is more than a sufficient paint waster and if I feel
    the need for electronics I will pull out the trusty Viking.
    The Series 6 gets used more than anything at this point, but I'm still a die hard mag enthusiast.
    Its just that I know cow pies when I see them sir, and this thread is one.

    /end cognitive discourse


  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by JesseB
    What? Isn't that some kind of agreement that should be signed before someone purchases the programmer so it's legally binding?

    you dont need a signature, since there is a contract when someone buys the licence to use x mod.

    If I buy a used gun with xmod on it you shouldn't be in the loop. someone paid you for the programmer and used it for it's intended purpose you can't make rules midstream. That's like saying that if you sell a gun with a Dye barrel on it you should send dye $110 since a new person is using the barrel.

    Agreed he could word it differently. He means that you aren't allow to sell your licence, so if you sell your gun you keep your licence (regardless if you use it or not) and the new user must purchase a licence.

    You can't track these things once they leave your sight, you can't charge someone money for something you don't own (once you sell something it's not yours anymore) unless you have a legally binding contract when you initially sold the programmer I don't see where you have a leg to stand on here.

    Arguably the license can be sold, but since xmod is subject to copy right you can't distribute any copies above the number of copies you are licenced to have. He does have a leg to stand on since he could sue for breach of copyright rather than breach of contract (as you suggest to sign a contract) however it is subject to having to sue to claim damages and criminally it wont be enforcible unless someone is distributing for profit...
    Unfortunately there is the $$$ boundary for him to go after people who have been distributing his software.

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardr0ck68
    Some people have said "this software should have been patented" and implying that it was the programmers fault for trusting the purchasers...

    isn't that the opposite of the AO community? Don't we usually get up in arms when SP or anyone else claims a PB technology as their own? The software he sells is the only real e-mag upgrade to hit for the last 5 years... and how does he get treated over that? He should have patented it if you wanted to get paid? Is that really where AO is at now??
    Technically the software can't be patented since it is intelectual property and not an invention, thus it is copy righted (which last longer than a patent anyway )

  19. #49
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    Put my 2cents in here while I can.

    I read that disclaimer/request Lorne put in the manual.

    I ended up buying 3 programmers from him.

    It was stupid, cause after talking to him,... i mis-read his "request" and took it as 1 programmer per gun and not one programmer per gun owner over all his/her guns.

    I like the xmod software for the adjustments,..... it helps tweak my guns where I want them.

    Ive sold 2 of them,.. and its nice to "back-up" the AGD code and re-install it to the gun the way AGD wanted to sell it to the consumer.

    I dont know about all the regulations or rights protecting the baords in the AGD guns,.... but I do know that AGD wants the best product for there customers,... and for my needs,.. XMOD is the best software.

    The AGD software might be protected,.. but Im gonna go ahead and say that the board is not. In a market where the hardware gets outdated in a few months/years,... Id think the board is an item that can be changed without causing a legal battle. I would think the software is protected and should not be modified.

    I guess what I want to come out of this post is: what little we have to use at this point helps a whole lot. No one is getting fat off of someone elses R&D to the point where a new board/marker could hit the market. Id say let the voices/opinions be heard,.. and let the creativity still flow. This is AGD Land,...... we make miracles work from shear nothing around here!

    ~ P8nt
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  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruler_Mark
    Yeap I do not do that anymore. I do agd software flashes for free, talking to lorne on a resolution for xmod flashes.


    Edit: as to the license, He can alter/edit it at anytime.
    Actually he can't edit/alter it at any time. He can ONLY if it is stated in the contract for aquiring the license that he can alter it at any time. Otherwise the orriginal contract is binding and you own what was originally purchased i.e. the orignal licence.

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beemer
    Well yes, yes it is. I guess you just failed as others have to READ.

    What part is it you dont understand again???????? Read the thread again.
    Quote Originally Posted by LorneCash
    If there's anyone out there that doesn't know what XMOD is you really need to get out from under that rock you've been hiding under... Check out my threads in Deep Blue or go to my web site www.NiedTech.com for details... basicly its a Software upgrade that adds 9 different firing modes plus everything else you could ever dream up to your E-Mag, X-Mag or SFL

    OK guys I recently moved and in the process of unpacking I've found 6 more xmod cables so If there's anyone here on AO that want's them speak up now... Next week friday any that I have left will go up on eBay.

    (two are spoken for but no $$$ yet)

    I do have 50 brand new programmers in my closet but I only have 6 cables left so until I find the money to get more cables made thats it for now.

    The Price is $132 ($120 + $12 S&H)
    Where?

    I dont really care. I just think its a bit...uhh....backwards.

    Like i said earlier, if he was going about this to make profit, he did it all wrong.
    If he wasnt, then why reverse himself now and change his terms?

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by going_home
    Ahhh but I do get it sir.
    Its Paul that doesnt by evidence of this thread.
    He had an opportunity to make some money (albeit not much because as we know AGD stopped production of Emags) but he chose to give the software away for free.
    Now he supposedly takes the high ground and demands money when he himself chose to give it away from the start ? Give me a break.
    Show me the licensing agreement man.... put up or shut up is basically where it stands now.
    And that my friend is what the mag community has very plainly said, they do get it sir !

    Thats my humble opinion, not worth much but there it is anyways.
    And like I said, I dont own anything electronic from AGD any more.
    Doubtful I ever will again. The mech mag is more than a sufficient paint waster and if I feel
    the need for electronics I will pull out the trusty Viking.
    The Series 6 gets used more than anything at this point, but I'm still a die hard mag enthusiast.
    Its just that I know cow pies when I see them sir, and this thread is one.

    /end cognitive discourse

    He didnt GIVE it away. You posted the link and still dont get it sir. It is plain to see that no matter how much I explain you still wont get it so dont say that you do. Re-read the thread again and try to comprehend it. Pay attention to the link YOU posted.

    If this thread is a cow pie I will remember that when you make a thread of your own.

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by behemoth
    I dont really care.
    Then why post?

    I don't think this started as "I wanna make some money thread" .. there will never be profit gained to LorneCash. I don't think money will replace what he did and neither does he. It was for us! What he is asking for is for is noteability, and a respect from the ones who cried for it.

    Gimme a break, a few bucks from all the people that benefited from his software without paying for it is not too much to ask. Now granted you can't go back and say......hey one year ago you bought a gun with my stuff on it, gimme money..No thats stupid. But to say...hey if your gonna do this.........just remember who made it all possible.


    Sorry didn't mean to single you out, but this thread doesn't deserve all this and certainly isn't worth what it is turning into.


    I'm gonna go get another beer

  24. #54
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    you guys are a bunch of babies. He is not "demanding" money from anyone, so drop all the legal talk and get off your high horses. If you dont want to donate, then dont, and shut up. I cant believe ive been spending more time on pbnation than here. Thank god for mcb.

    lornecash- i dont have xmod. I havent owned an emag in over 4 years. I will still donate some cash to you. Pm me your paypal. I will cover for one of these lowlifes.
    Zaszczycają waszą ojczyznę

    just got back from iraq!!!


  25. #55
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    Bought myself a programmer from him. I don't like this at all because it set me a little back from my e-mag project. I didnt really benefit from his software for now as when I played the battery got dead and I could only use the mechanical mod but it will soon come to get used.

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildog
    you guys are a bunch of babies. He is not "demanding" money from anyone, so drop all the legal talk and get off your high horses. If you dont want to donate, then dont, and shut up. I cant believe ive been spending more time on pbnation than here. Thank god for mcb.

    lornecash- i dont have xmod. I havent owned an emag in over 4 years. I will still donate some cash to you. Pm me your paypal. I will cover for one of these lowlifes.
    Ha ha awwsome at least you get it. Watch out for that other place it WILL hurt your head with too much use.
    Last edited by Beemer; 07-03-2008 at 09:08 AM.

  27. #57
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    Lorne,

    Here is an interesting aside... How about a US postal address or PO box so that people who like your software and want to support you can send you an anonymous CASH donation, without a paper trail?

    The reason I ask is that some people may be nervous that if you have moved this far from your original "ask yourself how much you'd be willing to pay to buy it" stance then the next step may be to try to legally enforce something you have yet to think of and those same people that would otherwise donate don't want to be listed as some one who has or had the software.

  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tao
    Actually he can't edit/alter it at any time. He can ONLY if it is stated in the contract for aquiring the license that he can alter it at any time. Otherwise the orriginal contract is binding and you own what was originally purchased i.e. the orignal licence.

    Figured he had it in there as thats line is pretty much standard to any license.

    Quote Originally Posted by devildog
    you guys are a bunch of babies. He is not "demanding" money from anyone, so drop all the legal talk and get off your high horses. If you dont want to donate, then dont, and shut up. I cant believe ive been spending more time on pbnation than here. Thank god for mcb.

    lornecash- i dont have xmod. I havent owned an emag in over 4 years. I will still donate some cash to you. Pm me your paypal. I will cover for one of these lowlifes.

    kudos to you.


    Beemer shooting you a pm.

    oh and btw, never did flash with agd software except my own gun to try going back from xmod to my original software. Just curious upon this subject personally for many reasons, you tell me no and I wont offer it but still would like your opinion.
    Last edited by Ruler_Mark; 07-02-2008 at 11:46 PM.

  29. #59
    See, if you really wanted to get into it, because the software was posted for download with no restrictions and no required pricing vehicle (i.e., you didn't need to pay anything before you were able to download), the software was free for public consumption. Lornecash was selling the means to take the openly downloaded software and put it on your gun.

    It's roughly analogous to going to a frat party; when you walk up, you pay $5 and get a cup, not the beer. As such, you are buying the means with which to drink beer which is provided free and is otherwise unable to be consumed. Kinda.

    Further, Lornecash, will you be paying taxes on any proceeds? Schedule C is calling.

  30. #60
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    i find it funny a third of the people "walk on water" and are coming across worse than the egglets over at pbnation with their nose so far up in the air they walk into a tree routinely.

    the middle third is about normal and are merely pointing out the topic is fairly absurd given the state of the emag, marketability, and the fact that no one is profiting from this, why now?

    then the last third are the ones who pirate software, movies, and everything else. Then post here as its free download, why would we ever pay?




    I try to stay in the normal area, but I do sway to the lower third at times (rarely anymore now that I can afford not to) but the absolute worst IMO is the top third. I can't stand that attitude from anyone, usually its a e-ploy but even if not, its just not normal and usually always leads to judgment of others.


    I like to think AO in general is a understanding, adult group of people who use wisdom and logic to make decisions and help each other (no greed or self interest). The point when looking down upon another user/person is the point I draw the line and move on. I hope this thread is unique (not Lorne, but the responses) and does not signal the beginning of a trend and thus the end of AO for me.
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