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Thread: G-Force frame, not vaporware!

  1. #1
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    G-Force frame, not vaporware!

    Last edited by warbeak2099; 08-15-2008 at 10:24 PM.

  2. #2
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    That's great! I'm happy that this may all soon be over for you guys...

  3. #3
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    OOOoooooo. I didn't know a manual was in the deal! Time to check e-mail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luke
    Humm, not really what I expected, it pretty much looks like what the DIY guys are making. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, just not what I expected. I would suggest you start with a new sear.

    I'd sure like to see the hAir trigger design.
    It's hugely different. The sear extender allows for the actuator to be mounted low, under the MSV-1. Since the MSV-1 is mounted so high up behind the trigger, the pull is lighter and shorter than any home made mod could ever be. The lower actuation point also allows the ram to be driven by less pressure but maintain the capability of high rof.

    The trigger looks way nicer than any AGD compatible stuff too. It definitely looks like it was worth it to dish out the money rather than doing it yourself. No offense to the DIY'ers, but this looks way better than anything you could just whip up with a dremel.

  5. #5
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    [/QUOTE] No offense to the DIY'ers, but this looks way better than anything you could just whip up with a dremel.[/QUOTE]


    I dont think thats any better than a dremel job.. All this was done with a dremel and a drill..


    And won MOTM...

  6. #6
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    And it's a great looking gun. But performance wise, I think the G-Force frames will supersede DIY jobs. Like I stated above, the way he placed the actuator and MSV-1 really makes a difference. Think about it from an engineering standpoint. The MSV-1 is at the complete top of the trigger where force can be applied to it with the most leverage by the trigger. This means a lighter and shorter pull. The actuator applies force to the bottom of the already extended sear arm. This means less force is needed from the actuator and therefore less gas is needed to power it.

    It's more efficient than a DIY frame, and has a better trigger pull.

    Now I'm not saying the DIY jobs suck. I've seen the vids, they're awesome. And much cheaper too. But this is a production product that has been meticulously engineered (to the point of making us wait way too long for our frames lol). It's obviously going to perform better. Your guys' frames are still unique and cool though.

  7. #7
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    Love my DIY job.

    This may just change how we do them. And it is toatally DIY able. And it's not like hes making any more......


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    Lol you guys are so defensive. I'm sure someone could replicate it and do it themselves. I'm just saying that we paid money to have it super engineered lol. The actuator is custom built and yadda yadda yadda. We'll see though. I have a feeling the pull is going to be a lot different from that of a DIY frame. Hopefully someone who bought it will have shot a DIY framed Mag. Then we can get an honest comparison.

  9. #9
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    I'll let you know.

    I hope it is better......

  10. #10
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    Actually, I wasn't expecting much more than that.

    Though I see why he withheld photos for as long as he did. Just didn't think of doing it that way.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by warbeak2099
    Lol you guys are so defensive. I'm sure someone could replicate it and do it themselves. I'm just saying that we paid money to have it super engineered lol. The actuator is custom built and yadda yadda yadda. We'll see though. I have a feeling the pull is going to be a lot different from that of a DIY frame. Hopefully someone who bought it will have shot a DIY framed Mag. Then we can get an honest comparison.
    I will have both a very professional DIY pnueframe ( not sure who made it, bought it on here from billybones...looks like pneumagger or MANN's work, extreamly well built, no hack job) and the G-force frame...I will post vids/comparasions/review ect....

    And my DIY frame has the MSV-1 very high, as high as you could place it without relocating the articulator, the level on it is so short it just barely extends past the body of the MSV-1...so it will make a nice comparsion....and yes I will be selling in once I get my G-force frame..no need for 2 of them!
    Last edited by insixdays777; 07-31-2008 at 10:36 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by insixdays777
    I will have both a very professional DIY pnueframe ( not sure who made it, bought it on here from billybones...looks like pneumagger or MANN's work, extreamly well built, no hack job) and the G-force frame...I will post vids/comparasions/review ect....
    Wait... You have it in your hands? When did this happen?

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    haha...wishful thinking I suppose....

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    he said will have...

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    guess I read it a little to fast

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    Quote Originally Posted by luke
    Your statements on placement of parts don't change my original comments. This is not that big of a step above the DIY frames IMHO.

    It is a very small step to machine a few parts that will allow guys to use off the shelf parts to bolt into say an Inteilframe to achieve the ground breaking design that we have here. (No dremel required.) Perhaps I was expecting too much, but what ever the case I would love to see how Deadlywind and PTP designed their frames, but we all know that's unlikely.

    I don't want to start a fight here, I hope everyone gets what they feel they paid for. My comments were never intended to dis G-Force. It was just a simple observation of his design. I think it's great that a production frame was made available, even though it will be short lived with one production run.
    Understood. The fact remains that it is different that anything done before. That's what we paid for and that's what we hopefully will be getting. The point is that it isn't a DIY frame, it's a production frame with a different twist.

  17. #17
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    Hmm, good to see a manual. Here's hoping you guys get the actual frames soon.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by insixdays777
    I will have both a very professional DIY pnueframe ( not sure who made it, bought it on here from billybones...looks like pneumagger or MANN's work, extreamly well built, no hack job) and the G-force frame...I will post vids/comparasions/review ect....
    Does it have Cyber's magnet mod? I'd be very interested to see a comparison. From the sound of it, the mag mod has done wonders for diy pneumags. Unfortunately it wasn't available when I ordered the G-Force frame. (I don't think)

    Hopefully we can get a few reviews and comparisons of DIY vs. G-Force. Either way, $200 for a production pneu-frame is a good deal (assuming that we get more than a manual )

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwilightG
    Does it have Cyber's magnet mod? I'd be very interested to see a comparison. From the sound of it, the mag mod has done wonders for diy pneumags. Unfortunately it wasn't available when I ordered the G-Force frame. (I don't think)

    Hopefully we can get a few reviews and comparisons of DIY vs. G-Force. Either way, $200 for a production pneu-frame is a good deal (assuming that we get more than a manual )
    No my DYI does not have the mag mod nor can it take it...the MPV-! lever arm is too short for the install.

  20. #20
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    The G-Force frame can't take the magnet mod although it would be that much cooler if it could. It doesn't use a lever on the MSV-1. The top of the trigger directly hits the MSV-1 piston.

  21. #21
    That looks pretty sweet.. I'd like to get my hands on one of those actuators... And the 25-30 psi working range is just incredible...

  22. #22
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    It also looks to be the exact same prototype frame we saw last year.

    Check the pics from the PDF and the beginning of the dealer's thread. I personally see what look to be a lot of the same mill marks.

    Also, if you'll recall, one of the holdup excuses was that they were going to drill a hole in the back of the frame to manually actuate the sear so you could pop the on/off to take out the valve. I don't see a hole, which means that either this isn't a production frame, or that partiular excuse was 100% bogus.

    This does not at all even begin to prove to me that there are 100 or even 10 of these frames ready for delivery.


    I'll believe it when I see photos of more than one frame. I still hope this turns out good for everyone. I still think there will be a lot of angry customers.

  23. #23
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    The simple addition of a trigger spring is a huge difference between these frames and most DIY frames. That alone will make them function a lot better.

    It does not need a magnet mod.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by drg
    It does not need a magnet mod.
    springs wear/break. magnets dont.

    While the design does look to have some positive attributes I curious as to seeing it in action. I know my pneu or epneu can preform. I also know that my lpr can regulate my 1200 psi from my tank. This looks very similar to what has been designed before. (going to look for pic)

  25. #25
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    I still wonder about the patent. this looks similar.

    I had another one that was different (basicly an upside down version of this), but cant seem to find it. I believe its on my wifes computer.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by drg
    The simple addition of a trigger spring is a huge difference between these frames and most DIY frames. That alone will make them function a lot better.

    It does not need a magnet mod.
    You can't beat the snappiness of a magnetic return though, an adjustable magnetic trigger is even nicer.

  27. #27
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    I'm personally a little worried about the sear arm extender.

    While I think it is a neat idea to extend the arm.

    It seems to be the one weak link. Just a few dabs of epoxy are supposed to hold the key feature together for thousands of cycles?

    I hope Garf did some thorough testing. Lets hope he used this extra 7 months wisely.

    I feel like it would have probably been cheaper and easier and possibly more reliable to have just made a new sear with a longer arm.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by warbeak2099
    And it's a great looking gun. But performance wise, I think the G-Force frames will supersede DIY jobs. Like I stated above, the way he placed the actuator and MSV-1 really makes a difference. Think about it from an engineering standpoint. The MSV-1 is at the complete top of the trigger where force can be applied to it with the most leverage by the trigger. This means a lighter and shorter pull. The actuator applies force to the bottom of the already extended sear arm. This means less force is needed from the actuator and therefore less gas is needed to power it.

    It's more efficient than a DIY frame, and has a better trigger pull.

    Now I'm not saying the DIY jobs suck. I've seen the vids, they're awesome. And much cheaper too. But this is a production product that has been meticulously engineered (to the point of making us wait way too long for our frames lol). It's obviously going to perform better. Your guys' frames are still unique and cool though.
    from an engineering standpoint? your kidding right? I know your giddy about possibly getting a frame, but you need to stop and think about what your saying be4 posting. Putting the actuation point closer to the trigger pivot point leads to a LONGER pull for the same movement of the actuator. Yes it would make the trigger pull lighter, but you are already dealing with a much lighter pull because the longer sear arm requires less pressure to actuate. Once you hit a certain point lightness doesnt matter, thats why you need a spring or magnet for return. I'm not trying to rag on you warbreak, but your making claims in your posts you know nothing about....claiming its more efficient, better trigger pull? claiming its meticulously engineered? YOU DONT KNOW ANY OF THIS. You are sounding like a fanboy in your posts.

    Luke, Ive got to agree with you, IDK if it is because of the long wait or not, but I expected a lot more out of this frame. I really expected a new 3 way instead of just using an off the shelf part(I thought Garf claimed a "better" 3 way when he originally released the video?)

    MANN, its same concept, only #70 is replaced with an air line and the 2 components are separated. 1 piece design has an advantage of less possible spots to leak, 1 solid piece so easier mounting, faster actuation because less air is wasted in the line and less restrictions of nipples and finally a more compact design. The downfall of the 1 piece is adjusting the placement can be a PITA since both the ram and 3 way are connected(adjusting one effects the other)

    smoothice a new sear would have been expensive, that tiny piece of aluminum is much cheaper to make than a hardened piece of steel. I agree that seems like a weak link...possibly creating headaches for users. If someone happens to get epoxy in the sear hole(where the clevis attaches) it will be a real PITA to drill it out.....and dont forget these frames are marketed to people who dont have resources to to build their own pneu...meaning they dont have tools to drill out the epoxy. (quick scenario, your at the field, your LPR starts creeping, so you want to switch back to your intelli, you break off the epoxied on sear extended, but you have epoxy in the sear hole....now what?)

    As for all the people that are claiming these frames are better than DIY frames...STOP until you have a frame in your hand and actually know how they perform. Claiming product A outperforms another product makes no sense unless you have experience with both.....which no one does, because no one has these frames yet.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilltop Customs
    (I thought Garf claimed a "better" 3 way when he originally released the video?)
    Perhaps an integrated 3 way was too close to the other design.

    I hope that the actuator ram is just the guts from an MPA-3, so that replacement parts can be found. It looks like it.

    For the price of the frame, I wouldn't really think about pulling the frame off on a field leak. I don't expect many of the people that ordered the frames would be without another marker either.

    I'm skeptical of the two little dabs of epoxy on the sear (needs more imo), but I expect the frame to be at least as good initially as a DIY pneu. The problem is that pneu frames are so finicky and you don't know a bolt on as well as one you built.

    I'm with Robertsr though. A manual doesn't completely drive off the stench of vaporware. I invoke the fundamental right of

    PICS OR SHENS!


  30. #30
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    My DIY frame is the awesome...It is not going to be easy to beat it....but like I said I will ba making a video comparing the two frames ( If/when I get my G-Frame)

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