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Thread: Gforce Internal LPR - post to order.

  1. #1
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    Gforce Internal LPR - post to order.

    EDITED TO REFLECT CURRENT SALE
    Ok, shown below is a pic of a "production" LPR adapter and CP on/off ASA.
    Also shown is the modified nickel/brass WGP nut- which saves me alot of machine time.
    I have completed testing on both the custom aluminum adapter and the converted WGP nut.
    Both work excellent and I'm really pleased with both. Either should get the job done.
    Orders are ready to be taken, and work is ready to commence (forget about lengthy waits for this custom part ).
    If you have expressed interest in this thread previously, you have been PMed. Chime in or PM me if you would like in on this.



    I will be offering the Aluminum adapter as a single part you can use to upgrade the WGP LPR you already have.
    The WGP modified nut will be sold with the WGP LPR. I will try to purchase several in bulk and pass on the savings.
    If you have a WGP reg, you're welcome to send it in if you want the WGP nut modified instead of an aluminum adapter.

    Just an adapter will be $30 shipped.
    The Complete LPR Kit will be $55 shipped.
    All parts and orings are included as well Direct Mount ASA modification if you wish to send that part in.
    Orders will be filled as received. Paypal payments should be sent to jrm33@cwru.edu
    If you decide to order, post here or PM me in addition to including your information with Paypal.
    If paypal is not your payment medium of choice, PM me for more info.

    Trades are accepted. (Preferably Glock magazines)
    Last edited by Pneumagger; 12-11-2008 at 11:42 PM. Reason: update

  2. #2
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    I'll commit to buying two adapters for $60. Please PM me when and at what PP MO address I should send the money to.

    If you would do the ASA is there a particular make/model that works best so I may purchase those to send in?

    Thanks
    Last edited by Looper; 11-18-2008 at 04:41 AM. Reason: Changed PP to MO

  3. #3
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    Will this have better efficiency than Ticklers? Ticklers need way higher pressures because of their lack of volume. They waste so much air.

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by warbeak2099
    Will this have better efficiency than Ticklers? Ticklers need way higher pressures because of their lack of volume. They waste so much air.
    The mount should not change any properties of the WGP regs as the internal dimensions are nearly identical.
    On a side note, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "need way higher pressures" and how the volume would effect this in the application.
    Can you link me to the discussion thread?

    Does anyone here running a gforce know the minimum output pressure for use with a ULT and RT on off?
    Since the sear leg is extended, I'm guessing it will be somewhere in the 25-35psi range and work best with an RT on off.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    I'll commit to buying two adapters for $60. Please PM me when and at what PP address I should send the money to.

    If you would do the ASA is there a particular make/model that works best so I may purchase those to send in?

    Thanks
    I find the CP direct mount ASA's are very easy to work with. They have a flat top and simply require a nice little 3/32" hole throught the top.
    The CP on/off is a bit longer (awkward looking IMO) and requires the top to be faced off with an angled hole running from the top into a side output port.
    You can find them in BSTs or on Ebay. They're not too pricey nowadays. I think Barb's PB retails them cheaply along with the WGP LPR.

    Plus, who knows... maybe gforce will release the proper ASA for the frame.

    My threading inserts shipped on the 14th, so when they get here I'll make a small quantity to keep onhand.
    I can buy the mounting screws locally and orings are next day delivery.
    Updates will be posted when testing occurs!

  6. #6
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    WOW, G-Force couldn't come up with something like this but Pneumagger could whip it up in his basement

    "I'm not happy unless you're not happy"

  7. #7
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    I would be in for one as well.

  8. #8
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    I am interested in one as well.

  9. #9
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    Wow, those look great! I sold my frame to Looper however no regrets, I can just make my own pneu again if I want.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pneumagger
    The mount should not change any properties of the WGP regs as the internal dimensions are nearly identical.
    On a side note, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "need way higher pressures" and how the volume would effect this in the application.
    Can you link me to the discussion thread?

    Does anyone here running a gforce know the minimum output pressure for use with a ULT and RT on off?
    Since the sear leg is extended, I'm guessing it will be somewhere in the 25-35psi range and work best with an RT on off.
    I mean that you aren't going to be able to trip the sear consistently running 25psi into a Tickler. They need to be run at higher pressures than other LPR's because of the lack of volume. You can't do 15-20bps consistently with a Tickler at 25psi. You'd need to be running it a lot higher to get a reliable rof on these frames. Which would suck because you're wasting a lot more gas than you need to.

    Example: Ticklers on cockers need to be jacked up a lot higher than a larger LPR which translates to more kick. They are small and that's great and all, but they sacrifice the ability to handle higher rofs at low pressures.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by warbeak2099
    You can't do 15-20bps consistently with a Tickler at 25psi. .
    Good thing I can't shoot faster then 14 bps

  12. #12
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    Nice little adapter Pneumagger!

    shooting 15-25bps while worrying about the tiny decrease in efficiency because of a higher LPR setting. lol

    If your really worried about efficiency that much you should adjust the ram piston to have minimum pre-travel before impacting the sear extender, and also install a sear stop. This will minimize the required volume of air required by the ram per stroke. Dont forget to cut the absolute minimum length of airline between the ram and 3 way.

    Hell that might make the tickler usable @ lower pressures since it would decrease the flow requirement. Or you could just crank it up, and lose a couple shots per tank oh noes!

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    Cranking it up is also going to affect the trigger pull. That's a big problem IMO.

  14. #14
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    Any reg with a similar diameter piston is going to have the same problems. Lower pressure mean lower forces acting on the reg piston....lower forces mean a greater lag in the reg response. Using a spring with the optimum spring coefficient for the required pressures, or maximizing the piston diameter will be the only way to TRY to circumvent the problem. I say try because its possible to lower it the lag, but it will still be there.

    I really dont think a increase in 5-10 psi is going to be noticeable, cant say for sure cause I didnt buy a frame. Easy enough for anyone with the frame to try though. Hell if people area already using the mentioned LPRs there should be no difference in performance.

    What it comes down to for the folks with this frame is either this little adapter, an external LPR, or waiting it out to see if G-Force comes through. This is a great option since it lets you use a common cheap LPR that can be resold in the future if G comes through. This option allows you to avoid having an vert ASA drilled and tapped along with a rail milled for the airline....both of which are useless if G comes through with internal LPRs.

    Good luck Pneumagger, way to notice a customers base in need of a simple solution

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    Count me in for one. Send payment info, i can do mo but paypal is easier. Thanks pneumagger this is great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by warbeak2099
    Cranking it up is also going to affect the trigger pull. That's a big problem IMO.
    I used a WGP sledgehammer in at least two of my personal pneumags in the past. They were both set at about 35-45psi and worked fine.
    I'd have to dig through AO, but I think it was graphed at like 17+bps burst peak with 15+ sustained.

    A few things can be done to increase the volumes. An inline volumizer can be placed on the output to increase the LP volume, larger hoses can be used to increase LP volume, or the adapeter can have a larger volume in it to increase the HP volume. If any problem does indeed exist for this reg outputting ~25psi, optimizing spring rates will be the best performance increase.
    I don't think volumes are the problem. The primary disadvantage of the WGP regs is the small piston diameters.

    I should have the first production adapter done sometime this week when my threading inserts arrive.
    I'll finish the frame and ship it back to the owner for testing.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pneumagger
    I used a WGP sledgehammer in at least two of my personal pneumags in the past. They were both set at about 35-45psi and worked fine.
    I'd have to dig through AO, but I think it was graphed at like 17+bps burst peak with 15+ sustained.

    A few things can be done to increase the volumes. An inline volumizer can be placed on the output to increase the LP volume, larger hoses can be used to increase LP volume, or the adapeter can have a larger volume in it to increase the HP volume. If any problem does indeed exist for this reg outputting ~25psi, optimizing spring rates will be the best performance increase.
    I don't think volumes are the problem. The primary disadvantage of the WGP regs is the small piston diameters.

    I should have the first production adapter done sometime this week when my threading inserts arrive.
    I'll finish the frame and ship it back to the owner for testing.
    I thought the sledgehammer was by A.N.S.

    but what do i know
    RAWR

  18. #18
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    SOLD to me...pleae put me in line!!! I gota have one! Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobsterboy
    I thought the sledgehammer was by A.N.S.

    but what do i know
    I believe the Sledgehammer, Oraccle LPR, Tickler, and newer versions are all just cosmetically different variants made my WGP.
    I've taken many apart and all look the same internally and they appear to have interchangeable parts.

    Barb's Paintball (ANS) appears to put up quite a few on Ebay. Given Barb's recent ethics (Myth Reg) I would not be surprised if there were knockoffs floating around.
    Perhaps ANS makes them for WGP?

    At any rate, my on-point threading toolholders and bits came in today.
    Unfortunately, I recieved 3/4" shank toolholders and my lathe is set up for 1/2" shanks. I'll have to get them milled down tomorrow.
    They also sent me an internal threading bar that had a chipped tip and totally forgot one of the grooving inserts.
    Maybe I'll get to making a final version tonight... I dunno if I'll get to it, I have to fix a door I kicked-in upstairs the other night.

    <--- Has rage issues

  20. #20
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    The Sledge is not the same as the Tickler, it is much larger inside and out. I don't think it's just going to need to be a 5-10psi difference. You're probably going to have to run the Tickler at more like 50-60psi. It is noticeable when you use one on a cocker. The kick is noticeably greater and you pretty much lose the ability to pinch paint. Unless of course you want to shoot 7bps.

    I guess if you want an internal LPR, you have to deal with the inferior pull. Even though this GTA E-Bolt LPR is a brick lol, I've got to say it's not bad as far as recharge goes. Bigger is definitely better. I'd be surprised if Garf actually gets his micro LPR to perform better than something like a Tickler.

  21. #21
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    Higher LPR in a pnuemag = slightly stiffer pull.
    Higher LPR in a cocker = Kick.

    Theres a bit of a difference.

    And are you REALLY talking air in here? ITS A DAMN MAG. Go buy AKA or MacDev if you want efficiency.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by warbeak2099
    The Sledge is not the same as the Tickler, it is much larger inside and out. I don't think it's just going to need to be a 5-10psi difference. You're probably going to have to run the Tickler at more like 50-60psi. It is noticeable when you use one on a cocker. The kick is noticeably greater and you pretty much lose the ability to pinch paint. Unless of course you want to shoot 7bps.

    I guess if you want an internal LPR, you have to deal with the inferior pull. Even though this GTA E-Bolt LPR is a brick lol, I've got to say it's not bad as far as recharge goes. Bigger is definitely better. I'd be surprised if Garf actually gets his micro LPR to perform better than something like a Tickler.
    I understand your concern, but I'm telling you - I "HAVE" used the WGP style LPRs @ 35psi quickly and reliably in some of my personal pneumags.
    Namely, this one:



    What is the pull weight of Garf's current frame at optimal LPR pressure?
    I'll test the pull force of this frame ~55psi and report on it. 55psi seems to be a sweetspot for most of the pneumags I've done.
    However, Garf's frame effectively uses a 2X length sear leg. So I'm guessing it'll run smooth 20-30psi. I'll test 55psi just to be sure it's usable though.

  23. #23
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    I've always wondered... how exactly do you measure the output of the LPR?
    Especially when tuning for a pneumag, it's not like you have an inline gauge... or do you?

  24. #24
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    I have an Ashcroft gauge mounted on a T fitting to measure output inline with the airflow.
    McMaster sells gauges fairly cheap.

    The trick is to buy cheap but certified gauges because everytime a reg fails or spikes it's be bye Mr. Gauge.

  25. #25
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    Nice job Pneumagger...

    Pretty neat idea to fix/finish some thing that others just dont seem worried about....
    man i need to get a garage and a mill so i can have some fun too....
    Zero Gravity Customs

    Play hard or go home......
    My feedback
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pneumagger
    What is the pull weight of Garf's current frame at optimal LPR pressure?
    About 1-2oz

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    low enough that, without a safety and no on/off ASA, I'm constantly filling my barrel sock with peg and gelatin
    Yea lol.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    low enough that, without a safety and no on/off ASA, I'm constantly filling my barrel sock with peg and gelatin
    With that being said, Would a lp on/off work for a safty? like one of these?
    http://stcvalve.com/Air_Valve.htm

    or mabie anyof these?
    http://www.dcionline.com/PDF/VLV.PDF

    Sorry for the jack but seemed lpr oriented
    Last edited by skyless; 11-21-2008 at 02:22 AM.

  29. #29
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    no, you'll still have charged air in the system.
    Does an on off ASA work as a marker safety?

  30. #30
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    A clippard SMTV-3 is an on/off valve ith output bleed and uses a toggle switch. That would serve well as a safety switch.
    However, I do not think the WGP regs flow back on themselves to vent pressure past the reg.
    Ultimately, the best safety for a pneumag would be an emag type of safety where the sear movement is blocked.

    Update: I got my on-point threading toolholder milled down to 1/2" so I can start making chips this weekend.
    Got the orings ordered as well as mounting screws. I'll make a final version this weekend and get it tested with a CP on/off grip.
    Then I'll make about 10 (more if people want 'em) during the next week and post payment info.
    ... just a few more days people

    ------

    Just a note... these will be raw 6065 aluminum as I'm not sure anodizing such a small part is worth it.
    Also, the CP on/off ASA will need faced off on the top because there is a "groove" running along the top and I need a smooth surface for the oring.
    I can avoid this if someone can find me .203 (13/64) Orings that are thicker than 1/16"
    Last edited by Pneumagger; 11-21-2008 at 12:36 PM.

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