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Thread: Marker Gas Supply Possibility...

  1. #1
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    Marker Gas Supply Possibility...

    OK, this started as a joke over on the MCB, but before I finished making what was going to be a sarcastic remark this interesting possibility wandered into my head and I'm not sure but I think I just might be on to something...

    steam engine turns compressor pump...
    compressor pump fills HPA bottle...
    HPA bottle is connected to marker as usual...

    my god man; you have revolutionized the back pack idea!

    just got to use an electric element to heat the water and fill
    your "Batman" utility belt with capacitors/batteries to run the whole rig...


    you know the sad part...
    that is just crazy enough that it might work...
    only electric motor turns compressor pump in back pack filling HPA bottle/tank
    which in turn is connected to the marker by remoteline...

    kind of like that gun NPS came up with only move the compressor off the gun into a back pack with an HPA bottle to work as a bulk reserve, say 13ci should be good enough...
    even if it needed 3 or 4 of those big 6V or 9V lantern batteries, in a back pack
    that is more or less reasonable...
    hhhmmmmm.........
    gotta talk to a buddy of mine that is into Marine Robotics...
    i just might be on to something here; good lord this post started as a joke, now i just might have a great idea...

    oh crap...
    not even finished the post and the Gardeners patent ambushed me!
    now here is the real Idea and Mr.Kaye if you could please offer your insights it would be appreciated, OK here we go:
    you take the compact compressor like the one used in the NPS marker
    have it fill a 13ci HPA bottle to say 1500PSI enough to keep the hungry markers chugging along but small enough to keep the pump run time short.
    this goes into a pack pack with a rechargeable battery/capacitors to power the pump and the electronics needed to turn the pump on/off when the pressure drops below a preset level.

    the big problem with the NPS gun was that putting everything on the gun made it very heavy
    the batteries were small so only had a short cycle time; over all the gun was only good for half a hopper of paint then needed a recharge.
    move the compressor/bottle/electric source off the gun,
    put it in a back pack where the load can be better dispersed and is easier for a person to carry and we just might have a Paintball fill rig that never need to be refilled with any gas as it will just pull air in from atmosphere.
    OK, the batteries will need to be recharged, but I'm sure that there is battery technology that i am not privy too that will work for this application.
    if you could get a 4 hour duty cycle;
    continuous operation for 4 hours similar to many gaming laptop computers,
    because the compressor will not be running 4 hours continuously because of your reserve take and the pressure switching electronics
    a person should get a full days play out of a single charge, or maybe even longer.

    Engineers of the A.O. examine this idea, offer your thoughts, suggestions, pertinent information on small/micro compressors that could do the job, switching mechanisms, battery/compressor power sources that may fit the need...

    please keep everything positive and contributory.
    this might work, it might not, but it really does seem possible.
    but this is not my area of expertise, and I don't have the $$$$ to experiment with the idea.

  2. #2
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    seems to me you would have pretty heavy pack your back , but in the spirit of things make a receiver that would take cordless drill batteries that way you could get replacements or additional batteries at the local hardware store

  3. #3
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    but don't you remember this gun:
    NPS EVolt
    the compressor must exist!

    This is the official press release from NPS:


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    2-10-05 (Sewell, New Jersey):

    The worldwide leader in the manufacturing, marketing, and distribution of Paintball products, unveiled the first in its new line of Paintball markers, the EVolt™, which utilizes patented Power Pulse™ technology, on January 28, 2005, in Las Vegas at the SHOT Show.

    Gino Postorivo, President and CEO of National said,

    This is not simply a revamp of known Paintball technology, but it is a truly revolutionary design, with patents issuing imminently on the first generation of the EVolt™ and various patents pending on the second, third, and fourth generations of this revolutionary new technology.
    so the compressor exists,

    The EVolt™ Paintball marker is powered by a rechargeable 18 volt battery pack. The battery not only powers the cycling operation of the marker, but actually generates the compressed air required to launch the PAINTBALLS. Air tanks not included... and not needed.
    so the compressor exists, it's out there some where!!

    The entry-level, first generation EVolt™ Paintball marker is currently capable of cycling at a rate of over six PAINTBALLS-per-second with velocities up to the "industry standard" minimum of 300 feet-per-second. A fully charged battery gives over 500 shots at a consistent velocity. The battery may be recharged in approximately 90 minutes, and can be replaced in seconds. The ambidextrous "Bull-Pup" design includes a Picatinny sight rail, removable clamping feed neck, "Timmy" barrel threads, angled foregrip and lockable velocity adjustment. Accessories are currently being developed.

    Production quantities are expected in time for the Fall/Christmas 2005 selling season. MSRP is about $250

    It is not exactly a beautiful gun and it's 6 bps is pretty meager, but this is the first marker that is powered by batteries other then compressed air. It is a new design and it's in it's early stages, so the weight and appearance is understandable. Who knows, maybe this will change Paintball forever, and we will laugh at the day that we used co2 to propel PAINTBALLS. Here are some more pictures.

    so the compressor exists,

    and if you take it off the gun,
    add a bigger battery pack,
    and a storage tank for a given volume of air,
    you should be able to make a back pack version work.
    it was the restrictions of the marker body that limited performance.

  4. #4
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    compressor = a lot of batteries = very expensive

  5. #5
    I'm pretty sure that the Evolt did not use a compressor. I'm almost positive it used a spring piston like design.

    I could be wrong though...

  6. #6
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    Sorry that I don't have anything helpful to add, but I like the idea, and I seriously think that it can be done. If I had the funds and the facilities, I might take this project on...but I don't. I hope someone can get somewhere with this, though.

  7. #7
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    That is awsome, i would really like to see one of these.

  8. #8
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    I don't think it compresses air like that. I was more or less thinking of big airsoft gun. If so we should all get together and make some

  9. #9
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    I'd me more inclined to go with a LP pump and reserve tank, Steam is very HOT, and under lots of pressure, if anything happens you're in trouble. That and HPA pumps are brass ringed and piston. For the simple fact that you MUST keep heat/sparks/combustion away from HPA..

    What I would do is a backpack with a small LP pump (120 - 150 psi) ran from a small RC car gas engine or electric engine and batteries. And a decent size reserve tank (88ci or even an old fire extinguisher, the bigger the better). And run a LP marker, Many of the newer markers only require 100 - 150 PSI.. Install a popoff valve in the tank so the motor would run constantly, venting any air over 150psi. Or if electric, a pressure switch set at 150 psi, then it could start and stop as needed..

    If you got gas, you trade sound for weight, time and power. If you go electric, the batteries would be heavy and wouldn't last very long, but it would be much quieter..

  10. #10
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    I would think any compressor capable of pumping that much pressure (1500psi) in a short amount of time would be equivalent to wearing a bright orange suit in midday. Every compressor I've used is pretty loud, especially if everyone else around u is trying their best to not make noise.
    As for that evolt gun, I'm wondering how fast and for how long you can fire before noticing a lack of air.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BiNumber3
    I would think any compressor capable of pumping that much pressure (1500psi) in a short amount of time would be equivalent to wearing a bright orange suit in midday. Every compressor I've used is pretty loud, especially if everyone else around u is trying their best to not make noise.
    As for that evolt gun, I'm wondering how fast and for how long you can fire before noticing a lack of air.
    That's why I suggested a low pressure marker and a low pressure compressor.

    The E-volt pumps up the pressure as it needs it, the only restriction is the battery, they say 500 shots.. and 6 bps max..

    I wouldn't be shocked to hear that it's just a big airsoft gun that pulls back a piston and hangs it on a sear.. But either way, 6 bps isn't anything to brag about

    I think if you're serious about a backback air source, Just buy a 10lb HPA tank, they arn't that heavy, and they will be much cheaper than anything you're gonna make.. Put a nice Adjustable reg on there, Like the max-flo or a flatline, and have at er.

  12. #12
    If I remember correctly, the reason the evolt wasnt released was a short battery life. With recent advancements in battery technology, it might be worth another look.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Tym
    I'd me more inclined to go with a LP pump and reserve tank, Steam is very HOT, and under lots of pressure, if anything happens you're in trouble. That and HPA pumps are brass ringed and piston. For the simple fact that you MUST keep heat/sparks/combustion away from HPA..

    What I would do is a backpack with a small LP pump (120 - 150 psi) ran from a small RC car gas engine or electric engine and batteries. And a decent size reserve tank (88ci or even an old fire extinguisher, the bigger the better). And run a LP marker, Many of the newer markers only require 100 - 150 PSI.. Install a popoff valve in the tank so the motor would run constantly, venting any air over 150psi. Or if electric, a pressure switch set at 150 psi, then it could start and stop as needed..

    If you got gas, you trade sound for weight, time and power. If you go electric, the batteries would be heavy and wouldn't last very long, but it would be much quieter..
    You'd get shootdown, plain and simple, or the batteries would run out very quickly if you didn't have the compressor shut off at all. It would be nice to not have to have a tank, but we can't get around it.

  14. #14
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    Possible, yes. Feasible replacement for standard paintball equipment, no.

    Calculate the energy stored in a 68/4500psi bottle and then try to find a battery which stores the equivalent amount of energy. Then you have to also consider the large energy loss in the motor and air compression process...so you need an even bigger battery.

    After a battery is found, then you have to consider the size and weight comparison between a HPA tank and the battery/motor/compressor combo.

  15. #15
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    Yup, that's why a nice 10 LB HPA tank would probably be best..

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tym
    Yup, that's why a nice 10 LB HPA tank would probably be best..

    Why? If youre going to bother owning a 10 lb tank then just use it as a refill station and go tank on gun. I see no point in using any system requiring a back pack. It totally defeats the "self contained" advantages.

    What I think the marker needs is a system that generates the air one shot at a time. Super fast recharge, very low volume. It would require the smallest of compression systems and the least amount of battery power. Just my .02.

  17. #17
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    the smallest compression system would be one which fills a small reservoir tank over a period of time. The small reservoir tank would allow for quick bursts of shots with the pre-charged air. This is probably how that e-volt works, it probably takes a few minutes to fill a small reservoir which holds a volume for 6 shots. After the 6 shots are taken, it wouldnt shock me if you have to wait a few minutes for the reservoir to recharge.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warwitch
    Why? If youre going to bother owning a 10 lb tank then just use it as a refill station and go tank on gun. I see no point in using any system requiring a back pack. It totally defeats the "self contained" advantages.

    What I think the marker needs is a system that generates the air one shot at a time. Super fast recharge, very low volume. It would require the smallest of compression systems and the least amount of battery power. Just my .02.
    But what you are talking about would not fit on a marker. It would have to be a backpack or something similar.. Compressors are not small. The batteries required for compressing hundreds of shots would not be small, you would need a reserve tank of some kind, Then you have all kinds of noise issues to deal with..

    Small reserve tank = HPA = Large compressor, large power consumption = large batteries.
    Low pressure system = large reserve tank = large backpack, even Low pressure pumps (200psi and lower) are bigger than a 13ci tank. let alone the tank (it would be the size of a 10lb tank or greater) and the batteries required for operation.

    The entire point of having a system than generates it's own air would be so you could play longer without refilling. But if you have to stop to recharge a battery or swap out batteries, you might as well refill you tank. you would only be trading refills for recharges at the cost of performance noise and size..

    If you bothered reading the first post in this thread, you would have read:
    "move the compressor/bottle/electric source off the gun,
    put it in a back pack where the load can be better dispersed and is easier for a person to carry and we just might have a Paintball fill rig that never need to be refilled with any gas as it will just pull air in from atmosphere.
    "

    Why bother replying to my post when I'm only talking in the context that was dictated by the thread starter? I have no problem with running a HPA bottle on my marker and refilling between rounds.. But if you have higher demands, they can only be met by increasing the size of your tank, or by trying to compress the air via battery powered compressor and a reserve. Of these 2 options, I opted for the increase of size of HPA tank, It would cost less, would eliminate the noise issues, and would weigh less. TO say nothing about recharging batteries..

    That is my .02

  19. #19
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    Browning sold a hybrid battery powered air rifle. It had a battery powered gear box on a standard springer air rifle. The same thing could be accomplished on a paintgun, but I am sure it would A; not be fast, and B: love batteries.
    Here is a link to one that sold on gunbroker.http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=137573687

  20. #20
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    On a side note a hand powered air pump might be something interesting for (similar to a pellet gun) as a pump gun, at least as having something different than the standard nelson/crossman pump gun.

  21. #21
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    I wonder how many pumps it would take to shoot a paintball. It would take more air to shoot a paintball than a pellet.
    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

  22. #22
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    Yeah, lol. It would be like 2 or 3 BPM (balls per minute)

    I still think a 10# tank is the best Idea..

    Or we could test out a vinegar and baking soda compressor

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