Problems with used level 10 and x-valve

[tosburn3]

Hey, first time poster here,

I bought a used x-valve and level 10 bolt on ebay and they are giving me trouble. First my setup:

X-valve w/ level 10 (duh)
Intelliframe
classic powerfeed body
classic rail
classic sear assembly (no ULT)

I am using a screw on tank with an hp output Myth regulator (supposedly 850 psi which should be great, but I admit that I have not checked this pressure with a gauge; but it runs a stock tippmann or classic mag fine so that should be at least 650 psi).

The problem:
I re-calibrated the level 10 just for good measure and the gun is having firing problems (perhaps unrelated to the recalibration). I am using the 2-line-1-dot carrier (the next size up leaks) and 2 level 10 shims that have the bolt bounce off great. However, no matter what spring I use or how I adjust the velocity, after the first shot the bolt either doesn't move when the trigger is pulled or chuffs like the level 10 is bouncing off paint. I have swept the entire velocity range with all three springs and here are the results:

large spring - never fires
medium spring - fires the first shot and then chuffs unless you let it wait for ~30 seconds
small spring - fires about every other shot and chuffs the rest. Feels kinda like a very slow recharge.

The fact that there is a slight improvement between the medium and small springs suggests bolt-stick, but the bolt slides very freely by hand and I cannot increase carrier size without leaking. The bumper is pretty damaged, but it does not slow up the bolt when I move it by hand.

I should note that the on/off pin fits VERY snugly into the upper o-rings. The trigger pull seems pretty heavy, but that might just be the way it is. When aired up, the sear has a tiny little 1 mm gap between it and the trigger (as expected). I tried to actuate the sear with the gripframe off, but I got the same results.

Yes, everything inside and out was oiled up good at all points of the testing (because I knew you would ask).

The plan:
I ordered a seal kit and will replace the bumper and other seals until it is working. All the hardware looks great, so I don't think the problem is permanent damage.

I was wondering if anyone had any other ideas or had suggestions as to which seals I should replace first. I was thinking:

1. worn bumper
2. upper on/off o-rings
3. reg seat
4. carrier (powertube) o-ring (and resize carrier)

I also have an adjustable max-flo tank reg I can try to see if input pressure was the problem (I felt no rebound at any point in the testing which might suggest that the pressure was low).

Thanks

[OPBN]

I would check the output pressure on the tank. I purchased a Gorilla Myth reg and it was preset under 600psi if I remember correctly. Unless it was ordered specifically as a HP output reg, it isn't. Try putting it through an ASA with a guage on it to see.

Also check the field strip screw. It can be too tight or too loose causing the bolt to stick as well. This is the root to a lot of non-firing issues.

[BigEvil]

Take the barrel out and try it. If it works fine after that, the bolt is hanging upon the wire nubbin in the barrel.

Does it work if you turn the velocity up a little? Also, oil the two orings in the top of the on/off. If it was sitting for a while they could cause the pin to hang up a little.

[tosburn3]

Take the barrel out and try it. If it works fine after that, the bolt is hanging upon the wire nubbin in the barrel.

Does it work if you turn the velocity up a little? Also, oil the two orings in the top of the on/off. If it was sitting for a while they could cause the pin to hang up a little.

I was testing without the barrel and I turned up the velocity as much as possible.

[tosburn3]

I would check the output pressure on the tank. I purchased a Gorilla Myth reg and it was preset under 600psi if I remember correctly. Unless it was ordered specifically as a HP output reg, it isn't. Try putting it through an ASA with a guage on it to see.

Also check the field strip screw. It can be too tight or too loose causing the bolt to stick as well. This is the root to a lot of non-firing issues.

I've never heard of the field strip screw causing problems, I have just tightened it real tight on other mags.

After this post it appears that input pressure is the culprit. I could have sworn the Myth was 850 psi (I bought from the original production Myths, they are different now).

[Coralis]

you could also try unscrewing the on/off and oiling the little black oring directly that oring can get all gummy and the on/off pin will not slide as well as it could causing a stiff trigger.

[athomas]

It does sound like a recharge issue. Perhaps the ASA is depressing the pin too far into the bottle regulator or not far enough.

I don't think it is your level 10 tuning, or the bolt wouldn't reset the first time it fired. When you do tune the level 10, remove all the shims first. Then find the largest carrier that doesn't leak.

How long is the on-off pin? You aren't missing the rail bushing?

[fong0067]

Make sure you put a drop of oil on the carrier oring. If its still chuffing check your field strip screw and rail bushing. If they are loose the valve will actually move. Next would be going to the next size carrier.

[athomas]

I say give the whole valve a good cleaning. Dirt can cause all sorts of problems.

[OPBN]

I've never heard of the field strip screw causing problems, I have just tightened it real tight on other mags.

After this post it appears that input pressure is the culprit. I could have sworn the Myth was 850 psi (I bought from the original production Myths, they are different now).

I often find the field strip screw tightness is the culprit in my mags. Typically, when I take one apart, I put the FS screw back in finger tight and air up. If it resets, I fire a few times to see if it's good. Most times I have to tighten/loosen until I find the sweet spot.

[tosburn3]

I got everything fixed and the culprit was the Myth regulator. I put a gauge on to see what pressure it was outputting and it was 750 psi which might not rapid fire, but should at least be fine for single shot.

But after taking a shot the gauge dipped down to 400 psi and slowly crept up back to 750 in about 30 seconds. I have never noticed this before because I primarily shoot low pressure guns with good consistent primary regulators.

So I threw on a max-flo adjustable tank reg (one of the newer ones that doesn't have the two levels) and put it at 850-900 psi and it rips.

Thanks OPBN for bringing possible Myth problems to my atention.

And for future reference Myth = only for low pressure guns with a good reg. I don't know if the HP output regs are better, but I assume its just a different spring and would suffer from the same recharge problems, just at a higher pressure. I guess thats the price you pay for such a compact device.

[Loneassassin]

^^^I switched out the internals of my Myth for the 850psi internals (I have never actually checked the output). And it hasn't had any problems keeping my pneumag supplied even at 15bps. It didn't work well with the 650psi internals, I could only do slow strings of firing. But it fed my Cocker reliably up into the 25bps range, lol - which wouldn't have happened if it had any shootdown whatsoever. I think you just have a bad reg...

[tosburn3]

^^^I switched out the internals of my Myth for the 850psi internals (I have never actually checked the output). And it hasn't had any problems keeping my pneumag supplied even at 15bps. It didn't work well with the 650psi internals, I could only do slow strings of firing. But it fed my Cocker reliably up into the 25bps range, lol - which wouldn't have happened if it had any shootdown whatsoever. I think you just have a bad reg...

Maybe, or maybe the 850 psi internals are just better, or the pressure is so high you cannot tell.

I would think that operating at a slightly lower input pressure would be no big deal for a pneumag because you don't need rapid fire, and the chamber is really only around 500 psi.

[athomas]

The low pressure Myth reg internals should have a half decent recharge, even if the low pressure doesn't allow the best mag recharge rate. 30sec to recharge from 400 to 750 means there is something wrong in the regulator that needs to be fixed. It is probably something that is stuck. Just clean it and replace the orings. It should be good to go.

[tosburn3]

The low pressure Myth reg internals should have a half decent recharge, even if the low pressure doesn't allow the best mag recharge rate. 30sec to recharge from 400 to 750 means there is something wrong in the regulator that needs to be fixed. It is probably something that is stuck. Just clean it and replace the orings. It should be good to go.

Hmmm. Well it happened with two different Myths, so maybe 750 is just a spike over time and its "operating pressure" is much lower. But two fairly new Myths doing that is more than a coincidence I think. I'm not worried because I use them for low pressure guns with good regs and have never noticed, so whatever.

[athomas]

I suspect the operating pressure is lower than 750. No tank reg should take that long to recover. I suspect the spring is compressed to the point that the internal air path is nearly shut off. The pressure would be high, but with no capacity for air flow.