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Thread: Filtering the Shoebox output?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Sanford, FL
    Posts
    243

    Filtering the Shoebox output?

    There have been a few posts about filtering the output of the Shoebox in various threads, but I haven't seen a definitive conclusion or consensus on whether it is needed or not, or what the best way is.

    I have a moisture and particle filter on the shop compressor output. Assuming those work as advertised, the only concern would be the lithium grease from the Shoebox getting into the HPA tank? Or could additional condensation form during the compression in the Shoebox?

    Is lithium grease getting into the tank an actual safety concern at all? The Shoebox keeps the HPA tank nice and cool, but I am sure that someone will at some point flash fill the tank at a field. Could that become a combustion hazard?

    I got Tuna's hose kit with a gauge. I remember at some point he was going to offer a filter, is that still a possibility? Googling only turns up high pressure filters for SCUBA compressors, which seem very expensive.

  2. #2
    I am not a HP expert, but I worked around it in the navy for 27 years. There is NO doubt that we are getting moisture in our tanks when using the shoebox. Regardless of how well you filter the input there will still be some amount of moisture.

    That number, however small get doubled each time the BAR is doubled. The moisture will double with the fist BAR second BAR fourth BAR eigth bar etc.

    I believe the real question is "is the moist air really a problem?"

    I am a air gunner and have used a manual pump up until now and not had a problem. Anyone who shoots a airgun and uses a manual pump has been putting moist air into there guns......I have not heard of any great problems in regards to manual pumping the guns.

    I suspect a HP moisture filter would be as much or more than the shoebox.

    Without the output filter, you are going to get some moisture.....The real question again is......is that a problem. You guys would be better to address problems with a paint gun and moisture.

    I don't know how to address the lithium grease problem. I believe tom has been running one just about full time and I am sure he would have reported a problem buy now.

    I guess time will tell as I can't afford $400 plus for a HP filter.

    Some folks have been using their shoebox's for awhile and I have not heard any problems yet in regards to moisture of grease.

    YMMV

    Steve






    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDutch
    There have been a few posts about filtering the output of the Shoebox in various threads, but I haven't seen a definitive conclusion or consensus on whether it is needed or not, or what the best way is.

    I have a moisture and particle filter on the shop compressor output. Assuming those work as advertised, the only concern would be the lithium grease from the Shoebox getting into the HPA tank? Or could additional condensation form during the compression in the Shoebox?

    Is lithium grease getting into the tank an actual safety concern at all? The Shoebox keeps the HPA tank nice and cool, but I am sure that someone will at some point flash fill the tank at a field. Could that become a combustion hazard?

    I got Tuna's hose kit with a gauge. I remember at some point he was going to offer a filter, is that still a possibility? Googling only turns up high pressure filters for SCUBA compressors, which seem very expensive.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Bright, IN
    Posts
    3

    Hey Airgunner!

    I just purchased a shoebox for airgunning too. I haven't got it yet though. I'm hoping that using dessiccant on the inlet will be enough to prevent condensation in the air tank.

  4. #4
    haywire1

    Again I am no expert, but I believe regardless of what you do on the input......Re-Compressing the air more is going to create moisture in the tank. But as I said earlier, if you have been using a manual pump on your gun, you already have some moisture in the gun!

    You typical/low cost moisture reducer on a air compressor needs to have a fairly high volume across it to remove the moisture. The shoebox uses so little air, I doubt they are effective at such a low volume. If you are going to spend money other than a baisc airfilter on the output of you 85psi compressor, I would put the money on the shoebox output filter. I am actually a little more worried about the grease getting past the orings than the moisture.

    But the good news is that does NOT seem to be happening! I think one of the early adopters would have had a problem by now with the grease.

    Steve

    Quote Originally Posted by haywire1
    I just purchased a shoebox for airgunning too. I haven't got it yet though. I'm hoping that using dessiccant on the inlet will be enough to prevent condensation in the air tank.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Sanford, FL
    Posts
    243
    For paintball guns, especially our Mags, I wouldn't be too concerned about moisture. We're constantly putting oil in them so that should displace any moisture.

    It is the grease that I am concerned about mostly. Specifically, if the grease gets into the tank, and someone flash-fills it at a later date causing the temperature to spike, will it combust?

  6. #6
    Again I am no expert, but I believe regardless of what you do on the input......Re-Compressing the air more is going to create moisture in the tank.
    I had quite a bit of water coming out of the shoebox the first time I filled a scba tank, when I opened the bleed valve. I did, however, have a small leak in the fill assembly's bleed valve so I don't know if that had something to do with the condensation forming.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by joeyt
    I had quite a bit of water coming out of the shoebox the first time I filled a scba tank, when I opened the bleed valve. I did, however, have a small leak in the fill assembly's bleed valve so I don't know if that had something to do with the condensation forming.
    What is your fill set up?

    Now that Iíve filled a few bottles Iím sure a water trap wont work for the input side. Planning to change out my water/oil trap with filter with desiccant air dryer with filter.

    Not too worried about the lithium. Itís high temperature stuff. The off the shelf AGS grease, I use has a Flash point 440F. If it ever did, it would probably explode in the bottom piston way before it did in a flash filled tank. The lithium grease shouldnít damage the reg seals ether.

  8. #8
    Painthey

    Have you id'ed any kind of filter yet?? Everything I found for the output, cost a fortune. I am concerned that nothing on the input to the shoebox is going to do much good....but

    Keep us posted on your results of the desiccant air dryer with filter on the input. I really hope that works as it would be a cheap solution

    Steve



    Quote Originally Posted by PAINTHEY
    What is your fill set up?

    Now that Iíve filled a few bottles Iím sure a water trap wont work for the input side. Planning to change out my water/oil trap with filter with desiccant air dryer with filter.

    Not too worried about the lithium. Itís high temperature stuff. The off the shelf AGS grease, I use has a Flash point 440F. If it ever did, it would probably explode in the bottom piston way before it did in a flash filled tank. The lithium grease shouldnít damage the reg seals ether.

  9. #9
    What is your fill set up?
    have a porter cable pancake shop compressor, originally with a flimsy in line filter but now with a beefy one from sears, set to around 90 psi.

    shoebox to scba is a joe brancato fill assembly:

    scba is a 44 cu ft scott air pak, 4500 psi, 2009 hydro

    Last edited by joeyt; 07-13-2010 at 12:16 PM.

  10. #10

    fx airgun in line moisture trap

    hello
    i am using a fx air gun in line moisture trap bought for around 25 dollars from air guns of arizona seemns to have worked well when i filled my scuba tanh

    thanks

    randy

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    5,955
    Quote Originally Posted by oldironaz
    hello
    i am using a fx air gun in line moisture trap bought for around 25 dollars from air guns of arizona seemns to have worked well when i filled my scuba tanh

    thanks

    randy

    pics???

    Tom

  12. #12
    I tried a desiccant air dryer and I broke it before filling an 88ic. Got about 1200psi out of it. It will work but canít tell you how long it would last. Probably be replacing the desiccant before a scuba tank is filled. Will try again.

    I got some results from setting my filter/oil/water trap in a cup of ice water. Basically a home made refrigerated air dryer. Moisture well condensate in the trap. Every hour I had to add ice. Donít understand the science of relative humidity/temperatures/pressure. But itís my understanding that if the air in the 80-100psi input can be dropped to 35degf almost all the moisture will come out. Just need to collect it in a trap.

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