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Thread: WELL??? How are they working!?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
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    WELL??? How are they working!?

    All,

    We seem to be having very few problems in the scheme of things but I am not hearing from anyone using them. Please report if its working well for you or if your still waiting for hoses etc.

    Thanks,

    Tom

  2. #2
    I will report back as soon as I get my fill hose kit from Tunaman

  3. #3
    Timely question - mine has just totally seized. I ran it yesterday for about 12 hours to fill a SCUBA tank. It seems to fill at a rate of about 5-6 hours per 1000psi. Shut it off at about 2200psi when I went to bed.

    This morning I was planning to fill it the rest of the way, and when I flipped the switch, it blew the fuse.

    Took the connecting rod off to isolate the motor and the pistons, and it is definitely the pistons that are locked up. Can't move them at all in either direction.

    It got very warm while filling, and I am guessing that when it was shut off while hot, something fused or something. While it was running, I was replenishing the lube on the piston rods with white lithium as recommended.

    I will report back with more info once I get the pistons out to look at them.

    One other finding. After running for 12 hours or so, there was a surprising amount of water in the line connecting the compressor to the SCUBA tank. So much tat I got sprayed when I vented the line at the SCUBA yoke. I'm not at all worried about this, but people had asked about water condensation.

    Edit: I got it apart and the piston that has seized was the first, larger diameter stage.



    Below are the guts from the bad piston. The long black plastic sleeve on the right is what has become very tight on the piston rod. Like so tight I needed to use a large wrench and hammer to get it the rod out.

    Should I try drilling it a bit larger? Polishing the rod for less friction? Just lube the hell out of it and reassemble?



    Also, I have to say that this is a really amazing piece of design. Everything comes apart very nicely and easily, and it is so fun to see the mix of fabricated and hardware store parts in here.

    Tom, do you recommend running the unit with the cover on or off? I was running mine with it off, but I do appreciate the ducted airflow design using the motor to pull air across the pistons. It just doesn't seem like enough airflow to be any better than leaving it all open. The air exiting the motor is very warm. Too bad it doesn't move more air.

    Edit2: Fixed.

    The long black bushing in the piston photo was fitting SUPER tight on the rod. I think it's just a guide, and the o-rings do all the actual sealing, so I took a rat tail file to it and enlarged the inside of it so it would slide easily on the rod.

    Reassembled... and we're back!

    I would say that this thing could be rebuilt in an hour. Very clever design! I love it. I have heard that you should replace Swagelok bushings every time you reassemble them, and they are sensitive to torque, but these don't leak, so I'm happy.

    As for feedback - Tom, are these black bushings just to guide the plunger inside the piston assembly? If so, I wonder if there is a size slightly larger that slides more freely. I also worry that with a very tight fit, these will tend to wipe the grease off and make it difficult to add grease from the outside.

    Also, there was one small "defect" on mine - the hose going from the 2nd stage piston to the main airblock was almost closed on one end from how it was cut. There was just a tiny pinhole opening, and the rest was filled with the remains from cutting it on a saw of some sort. I drilled it out, but not all the way since it wanted to flare the end of the pipe out and I didn't want to ruin the seal.

    And one tip for those of you working on these who have read this far in this post - use a Sharpie or something to mark the position of the rods in the block with the setscrews, and the location of the collar that holds one end of the spring. That will make it much more likely to get it put back together and not in need of lots of adjustment. I think having the rods misaligned so that they are at the wrong depths relative to each other could seriously affect the performance of the compressor. And obviously the collar location affects the shutoff pressure, so that is very important.

    Edit3: Not totally fixed. It isn't filling past about 1.5k. I read a couple of threads here that indicate that this likely means a bad check valve on the 2nd stage. Pulled it apart and damn - trashed. It was super dirty with some sort of white crap (grease? crap from my compressor?) and the oring was split. Replaced it from the spare orings that came with the compressor and that one split. The plastic oring seat is damaged, which I assume is what's doing it. I might have installed the small plunger wrong so that it hits the check valve. I thought that it was flush with the back of the block with the set screws, but maybe I was wrong.

    'wose
    Last edited by Woodwose; 07-16-2010 at 07:58 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
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    1,157
    the only problem we had with ours so far is that sometimes the rocking arm (whatever you wanna call it) works its way up the screw and when it touches the screw head it gets enough traction to be able to turn off the compressor. simply tapping on the arm puts it back in place, and it can be turned on again.

    otherwise ours has been working pretty good.

  5. #5
    15hours and itís going strong. I use a little lithium grease every tank I fill (2-3hours.)

    I wonder if the water problem is primarily filling bulk tanks. I havenít seen any water in my 68/45ís or in my water trap. Still havenít installed a desiccant/filter.

  6. #6
    I also had a good about of water buildup that shot out pretty forcefully when I opened the bleed valve. my cylinders (and the top fill nipple area) also got very hot after a few hours. the pulley on mine behind the aluminum block seems to have alot of lateral play (I'll try to make a video over the weekend so you can see if it's too much...) Only other thing is when I first ran it for a while, there was a good amount of very fine metal dust on the floor of the shoebox but with use that seems not to be happening any more.

  7. #7
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    Mine seems to be just fine. I have over 100 hrs on it now. No failures yet. Also got a little water vapor out of the bleed, but it is VERY humid here now. I know the ambient humidity will play a large part in how much water comes out. Doesn't seem to effect anything.
    Email me for low prices on ALL AGD Products and more. tunaman5@verizon.net
    Tunamart

  8. #8
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    well i've got about 35 hours on mine , I only run it 4 or 5 hours at a time , I have had no problems & have done nothing to it , I did set up a fan to blow across the unit as it runs , I would have thought i'd get some condensate in my primary compressor but at this point have got only a few drops , none at my scuba yoke when bleeding

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Woodwose,

    Was there any scarring on the end of the big piston rod? I can't believe that just the delrin tube could blow the fuse. Your back up and running fine now?

    Thanks

    Tom

  10. #10
    I am also waiting on my proper fill kit from tunaman and will report my findings when it arrives. I have used just a simple whip to fill my Airforce tank a couple of times with no problems so far.

    Carl

  11. #11
    That tube was really stuck on there. To get it off I had to hammer on the rod with the tube backed by a huge crescent wrench in the vise. Seriously stuck.

    Now I am having 2nd stage check valve problems. It keeps splitting the orings. I am using the closest I could find from the local hardware store, so maybe they are a little bit off. But they fit well. I think the main problem is that the plastic piece that holds the oring is damaged.

    Can I purchase a new plastic o-ring carrier for the 2nd stage check valve, and a box of 100 orings (ok, maybe just a couple)? And maybe a replacement delrin tube for the 1st stage in case the one I had was off somehow?

    Also, what is the proper procedure for mounting the rods just right in the set screw block. I thought I had them right, but that is the only thing I can think of that would damage the check valve.

    Thanks,
    'wose

  12. #12

    Almost there

    I just got my hoses from Tuna. Headed out of town but plan on setting it up next week for its first run

    Swamp

  13. #13
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    Woodwose,

    PM me your phone number and I will call you to get it worked out. We will replace your back check with a brass one. The orings are special Vitons. Hardware store ones will not work and will melt.

    Tom

  14. #14
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk
    the only problem we had with ours so far is that sometimes the rocking arm (whatever you wanna call it) works its way up the screw and when it touches the screw head it gets enough traction to be able to turn off the compressor. simply tapping on the arm puts it back in place, and it can be turned on again.

    otherwise ours has been working pretty good.
    Well TK is working on giving everything a part name.

    Lets call it the shut off spring mount arm for now. I think that is what you are talking about. Correct? Unplug it and disconnect the spring from the collar. That arm should rock back and forth freely all day. See if it doesn't.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAINTHEY
    15hours and itís going strong. I use a little lithium grease every tank I fill (2-3hours.)
    Thats it. Use a little grease after EVERY fill. If you are going to run it for 12 hours, you need to grease it every 3hours. See TK's tech video on grease and a little dab will do ya.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ShoeBox Tech
    Thats it. Use a little grease after EVERY fill. If you are going to run it for 12 hours, you need to grease it every 3hours. See TK's tech video on grease and a little dab will do ya.
    hi

    that wasn't clear in the manual that the rods should be greased that often. (actually it could be read by idiots like me that you should lube after 20 hours--may want to clarify that.) are those of us that did our first fills without greasing every three hours likely to have caused any damage?

    thanks.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ShoeBox Tech
    Thats it. Use a little grease after EVERY fill. If you are going to run it for 12 hours, you need to grease it every 3hours. See TK's tech video on grease and a little dab will do ya.
    Na thereíre 68/45s, not bulk tanks.

    I did take it on a fieldtrip from Florida to Laurel, Mississippi then Biloxi over the weekend. Itís so hot no one is playing other than the open local team practice. Not a lot of filling going on.

  18. #18
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    All this stuff is a work in progress. As reports come in we investigate and then figure out the best direction to go. At the moment it looks like more lube is better. Expect things to change as we get through this first run.

    Tom

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyt
    are those of us that did our first fills without greasing every three hours likely to have caused any damage?

    thanks.
    No. Not if it still works. How long did you run yours?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by ShoeBox Tech
    No. Not if it still works. How long did you run yours?
    around 18 hours. longest at a stretch about 8 hours.

    still sounds pretty much the same. and I can move the crank lever by hand, but it's not real easy turning past 12 o clock.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Hot Florida
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    I just got my Tunaman Fill kit w/Gauge! I ordered some fill nipples and a steel 1/4" npt union so that I can fill my Scuba. So I haven't used it yet. But damn Im excited.

  22. #22

    bottom stage backcheck update

    Hi Tom,

    I got the parts to replace the damaged bottom stage backcheck and oring. Thank you. I also aligned the pistons using your procedure, which works well, but requires quite a lot of disassembly.

    Sadly, I still cannot fill past ~1800-2000psi. I made sure the stage 2 backcheck was clean and the oring was not damaged (as had happened previously), but still no luck. This is with the spring adjustment collar all the way out on the rod.

    What would you suggest as a next troubleshooting step? Could the 1st stage backcheck be failing also? I haven't rebuilt that one. I would think that would give you a full fill, but take forever.

    Could this be caused by the piston rods being misadjusted relative to the pistons? I marked them with Sharpie before removing them, and have them back where I think they were, but they could be ~1mm off I suppose.

    Any other suggestions?

    Thanks,
    'wose

  23. #23
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    Check out the PM I sent ya...
    If the first cylinder backcheck was failing it would not be able to get to 1000...let alone 2000. Go to second stage backcheck and rod timing. A sharpie will not be accurate enough.

  24. #24
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    The lower cylinder back check is clearly not sealing. When it shuts off at 2k thats always whats wrong unless you forgot an oring at the other end of the lower cylinder.

    Take it apart and check it again. Very light coating of lithium grease on it.

    Tom

  25. #25

    ShoeBox #059 received today

    Well I received my Shoebox today There was a slight dent on the side of the cover (non-vented side), nothing major I just tapped it out with a plastic hammer.

    I had to adjust the chain tension right out off the gate. The chains were so tight that I could not even rotate the crank shaft by hand. Once I adjusted them, it rotated just fine.

    I noticed when I removed the fill nipple from the manifold, that there was some Teflon tape and what looked like lithium grease inside of the manifold port. This more than likely would have gummed up the check valve on the tanks fill nipple. I cleaned out the manifold port with a q-tip and air nozzle.

    I proceeded to top off my 45/4500. It had 3,000 psi in it (the end result of a fill at a local field) and it took 30 minutes to fill to 4,250 psi. The cylinders and manifold did get hot, but did not reach the 150 degrees Fahrenheit stated in the manual. The hottest part was at the bottom of the manifold by the relief valve. It got to 105 degrees. The cylinders reached up to 94 degrees.

    My 88/4500 tank also with 3,000 psi took 45 minutes to reach 4,200 psi. The bottom of the manifold again reached 105 degrees Fahrenheit and the cylinders 91 degrees.

    One thing that I did notice was oil leaking out of the crank shaft bushing. It leaked down to the relief valve and output fitting. It looks like it is motor oil. I was wondering if this is normal and is it possible that it was over-lubed, or is it something that will need to be lubricated. I will attempt to link photos of this. This also appeared during both fills and I wiped it clean after the first fill.

    Other than that, this thing is awesome. I even went to my son's friends house and got his 68/4500 to fill. It is completely empty so I will have that time data later.

    Thanks Tom,

    Clapinski



  26. #26
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    Sorry to hear about the chains and teflon. We adjust them and test them all before running so I am not sure how it got that way unless it was handled roughly (dent?).

    We put some lithium grease between the bushings on the main crank shaft and thats what you see leaking out of the shaft. It was overkill since the bushings are pre-lubed. Just clean it off.

    Tom

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
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    Still waiting on my compressor to show up Should be here by this weekend and I have tanks that need a'fillin' immediately!

  28. #28
    I have serial number 62 and it runs like a charm.I regularly grease the shafts every 4hrs or so.The machine cuts out at about 4200psi and thats the only issue I have,thanks Tom.

  29. #29
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by marauder25
    I have serial number 62 and it runs like a charm.I regularly grease the shafts every 4hrs or so.The machine cuts out at about 4200psi and thats the only issue I have,thanks Tom.

    Unplug it. Use a pair of pliers or needle nose and carefully unhook the spring from the hole in the collar on the top shaft. Use a 3/32 allen and loosen the set screw on the collar. Move the collar to the right towards the end of shaft about 1/16". snug up set screw and carefully re-attach the spring in to the hole in the collar. Use pliers to grip spring so you dont bend or muck up the end of the spring. That should raise the shut off pressure a few hundred psi.
    Let us know.

  30. #30
    Thanks,I will do that.Btw, I'm getting alot of use out of the presser now that I am an owner of a Drozd Blackbird that shoots about 850 fps!

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