Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 61 to 74 of 74

Thread: Project EP mag ready for ano

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Mag shooter since '96 - S
    Posts
    4,566
    Quote Originally Posted by hill160881
    Also some random person was walking toward the fire for some reason. ]

    "comin thru guys"

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Beaumont,Tx.
    Posts
    1,005
    Has anyone else been having trouble getting on YouTube or is it just me?

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    the country of california
    Posts
    1,134
    Ya but my internet is uber slow.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    the country of california
    Posts
    1,134
    Well after a test with a completely stock X-valve, 18 bps was about all i could get out of the noid.

    So what is the difference between the one i shoot at 26bps and a stock x-valve?

    It is the on off pin and a quad ring. A stock pin is .750". I have shortened mine to .710" and added a upper quad o-ring.

    If the marker was a mechanical it would rt out of control at 850PSI with the on off pin this short.

    After my second build i noticed that i had a hard time getting the noid to trip the sear with a stock x-valve. So after shortening the on off pin and installing the quad o-ring it has no problem shooting at 20+ bps

    A side note is that i use slick honey ON EVERY PART OF THE VALVE. Not just the reg spring stack. Slick honey will not gum up things like dow grease will. In fact it is quieter than without it and i suspect the bolt/power tube will last longer with grease on them than without.

    Just a warning. If you shorten your on off pin without measuring it first, and without an extra one for backup you run the risk of shortening it to much. Then your marker wont work at all. So it is a good idea to buy SEVERAL .750" on off pins before attempting this

    Both the pins and the quad o-rings are available from Tunaman
    Last edited by hill160881; 12-25-2010 at 06:51 PM.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Sao Paulo - Brazil
    Posts
    2,201
    Quote Originally Posted by hill160881
    Well after a test with a completely stock X-valve, 18 bps was about all i could get out of the noid.

    So what is the difference between the one i shoot at 26bps and a stock x-valve?

    It is the on off pin. A stock pin is .750". I have shortened mine to .710" and added a upper quad o-ring.

    If the marker was a mechanical it would rt out of control at 850PSI with the on off pin this short.

    After my second build i noticed that i had a hard time getting the noid to trip the sear with a stock x-valve. So after shortening the on off pin and installing the quad o-ring it has no problem shooting at 20+ bps

    A side note is that i use slick honey ON EVERY PART OF THE VALVE. Not just the reg spring stack. Slick honey will not gum up things like dow grease will. In fact it is quieter than without it and i suspect the bolt/power tube will last longer with grease on them than without.

    Just a warning. If you shorten your on off pin without measuring it first, and without an extra one for backup you run the risk of shortening it to much. Then your marker wont work at all. So it is a good idea to buy SEVERAL .750" on off pins before attempting this

    Both the pins and the quad o-rings are available from Tunaman
    Are you sure it's only the lenght itself? I thought that you could have that difference from using a regular RT on/off (slower) or a ULT (faster).

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    the country of california
    Posts
    1,134
    I have not tried the ult. I dont think it can recharge this fast but i may be wrong. The RT is what gives it the ability to recharge this fast.

    Shortening the on off pin was to allow the use of a quad ring in the top of the on off. This reduces the pressure needed to fully activate the on off assembly(shutting off the air flow). so the noid and ram dont have to work so hard.

    It also works fine at a length of .725" but not as smoothly. It seems to be harder for the ram to get the job done.


    I have toyed with every length and this seems to do what i want

    anybody got a ult to shoot at 20bps? If they are that fast i will try one out.

    Also the bullet reg i am using is crap. I am getting an AKA soon.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Beaumont,Tx.
    Posts
    1,005
    Ok for those of us who have had no experience with quad O Rings (me) please explain how they work, what on/offs and valves they can be used with and the advantage of using them. I assume they are not used with ULT's . When using a ULT does adding shims to it mimmick the effect of shortining your pin ?

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    the country of california
    Posts
    1,134
    quad rings are stock in e-mag valves. and can be made to work in an x-valve. i use one in my clasic but i have an rt on off in it.

    The quad ring goes in the top of the on off(replacing the #6 o-ring that is inside of the #10o-ring) so when the marker is fired the pin moves to the top shutting air flow to the shot chamber off.

    Quad rings require less surface pressure to maintain a seal(due to increased surface area). So it takes less pressure from the lpr, and through the noid to complete the cycle.

    The reason to shorten the pin is because the quad ring has a taller usable cross section than a round o-ring(because its square). so the pin needs to be shorter because it makes contact with the quad ring(and seals off the shot chamber) in a shorter distance.

    If you shorten the pin to much the shot chamber will remain hot and the bolt may not reset. It becomes fully auto.

    Put a quad ring in an x-valve without shortening the pin and it wont even go off because the shot chamber is not getting any charge.

    Just the way i think about it, and i could be wrong.

    The ult reduces the RT effect so i have never used one.

    flatliner does your EM setup use a ult? I am curious how fast a ult will recharge.
    Last edited by hill160881; 12-25-2010 at 06:28 PM.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    4,146
    X-Rings, also known as Quad-Rings®, can be used in a wide variety of static and dynamic sealing applications.

    The four-lobed design provides twice the sealing surface in comparison to a standard o-ring. The double-seal action requires less squeeze to maintain an effective seal. This reduction in squeeze means less friction and improved seal life.
    Quoted from another site.





    One reason why Quads are uses in Emags
    This reduction in squeeze means less friction
    Same reason hill used it for his egomag build. It would have required more pressure to activate the on/off with a regular oring

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Beaumont,Tx.
    Posts
    1,005
    Yes I am using a ULT on my home made E frame. I know it was doing 18 bps no problem on semi auto on a stock board with no ramping capabilities but I'm sure it could do more. So what is the stock on off in X Valves and E Mags...an RT ? So quads are not for ULT's but only RT's correct ?

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    4,146
    Correct....hmmm....quad in a ult...do they make them that small

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    the country of california
    Posts
    1,134
    I will have to try installing a ult and see if it can keep up with the RT on off. that mite be the next video i do if it works. It would also allow me to turn down the pressure on the noid. If that even makes a difference in the noids life.

    I would not recommend the bullet LPR regs at all for this noid. they are fast but there consistancy is all over the place with the pressure it puts out. it may have damaged the noid already. i wont know until either one of the LPRs i ordered arrives. I got an AKA and a palmer pebble to try them out. but i here that the pebble is the best at very low pressure.

    Anyone try one of these LPRs at such a low pressure?

    Also anyone know how to test the ram fittings for a leak? i need to command the noid to stay on just for a second, so i can here the leak.
    Maybe three AA batteries directly attached to the noid? That would be 4.5 volts and the noid is a 5 volt unit.

  13. #73
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    a wretched hive of scum and villainy
    Posts
    556
    a drop of dishsoap on the fitting, then fire
    if it makes a bubble, you have a leak

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    the country of california
    Posts
    1,134
    I will try this. this seems easier then my convoluted idea. Thanks


    Update:

    Off to Arnolds metal finishing for the anodizing.



    Last edited by hill160881; 02-27-2011 at 10:02 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •