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Thread: Ultra Light Mag

  1. #1
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    Ultra Light Mag

    I have more than a few projects going at the moment and here is another one. This one has been a while in the making.

    Here it is, Only missing a sear at the moment and it is so light it feels like a toy. I will get a true weight at the post office later because my scale wont work at the moment. Its well under 2 lbs though.

    This was a collaboration between me and the Devil (Devilman). I still plan to take a good amount of weight off the valve but the progress so far and it is looking good.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-ibOsyGYAc







    Last edited by hill160881; 04-28-2011 at 09:01 AM.

  2. #2
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    Nice touch on rounding the back of the rail by the frame.

  3. #3
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    If your just going for ALAP take the foregrip off.

  4. #4
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    I wonder what weighs less. Capping the valve and using a reg like a stab or fatty? Or just keeping it how you have it?

    If you capped the valve then you could remove that much more rail from the back.

    Also is that a ccm barrel? Does the ccm barrel weigh less then a dw barrel with an insert?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smoothice
    I wonder what weighs less. Capping the valve and using a reg like a stab or fatty? Or just keeping it how you have it?

    If you capped the valve then you could remove that much more rail from the back.

    Also is that a ccm barrel? Does the ccm barrel weigh less then a dw barrel with an insert?
    Also if you caped the valve you could use the reg as the forgrip, I prefure forgrips on my markers.

    DW makes the Null barrel, no inserts just CF and little alum for threads, or stiffie (sp?) makes a full CF barrel with no alum.


    nice mag I like the rail too...

  6. #6
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    Capping the reg is a wash on weight as I discovered. The AGD reg is pretty darn light. That for grip is ultra ultra light.

    As for the rail, it was done with a table saw and a dremmal.

  7. #7
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    whats the plan for the valve? teardrop milling?

  8. #8
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    Not sure on that yet. That will be up to DM.

  9. #9
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    Dont mill the valve. You may ruin the 3000 psi rating.
    Email me for low prices on ALL AGD Products and more. tunaman5@verizon.net
    Tunamart

  10. #10
    I have a fore grip for ya

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tunaman
    Dont mill the valve. You may ruin the 3000 psi rating.
    I would guess that less than 1% of the valves out there ever see 3000psi.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MANN
    I would guess that less than 1% of the valves out there ever see 3000psi.
    Yes, but it's still a safety factor. I personally wouldn't touch the valve because it's there for a reason because you could get it so that it should be able to hold 1000 psi, but things still find a way to fail even if they shouldn't. Plus the fatigue life of aluminum is never infinite, so milling an x-valve is even more foolish of an idea than a classic valve.

  13. #13
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    Here is the weight. 1lb-7.75 oz

  14. #14
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    I've got a lighter feedneck for it as well... not sure how much lighter but it is a bit... hmmm... where else to shave weight

    DM

  15. #15
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    1.5 lbs aint light enough

    Noodle arms.

  16. #16
    You HAVE to get rid of that brass safety and swap in a plastic one - the brass must weigh a TON on that gun, not to mention that it is throwing the balance WAY off. . .

    I might not have gone as crazy on the rail, but I agree that the rounding at the back for the grip frame looks very smooth.

    [continuing to pick nits]:

    Single detent or dual? Dropping a detent might shave a few more tenths of an ounce.
    SPD-style panel grips? Maybe a pair of the finger-grooved Lapco ones, just to stay away from the oh-so-heavy rubber?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrome
    You HAVE to get rid of that brass safety and swap in a plastic one - the brass must weigh a TON on that gun, not to mention that it is throwing the balance WAY off. . .

    I might not have gone as crazy on the rail, but I agree that the rounding at the back for the grip frame looks very smooth.

    [continuing to pick nits]:

    Single detent or dual? Dropping a detent might shave a few more tenths of an ounce.
    SPD-style panel grips? Maybe a pair of the finger-grooved Lapco ones, just to stay away from the oh-so-heavy rubber?
    The panels aren't rubber... they're plastic... and they've been UL'd on the inside, same for th CF frame. There is more that can come off, but I don't want it to flex like a coke bottle when I squeeze it.

    The detent is a dual because it's what the Pariah's come with. I've weighed it. I really think that the amount of metal that comes out of the hole is more than the hollow detent with the spring and plastic ball, though I can't confirm that 100% yet. But I'm pretty sure it is.

    Those are the lightest grips that I can find. And SPD doesn't make (to my knowledge) any that are single bolt center style.

    And I'm thinking of picking up a Stiffi barrel that is non switch to weigh and try out, but the fork area on that style weighs just as much as the insert does on the switch it looks like though I can't be certain yet. And the MF barrel weighs twice as much as it's made from a thicker wall CF tube with extra epoxy on it for the threading.

    DM

  18. #18
    Just playin' with ya.

    I used to run those grips on my guns; they're more comfortable to me than the finger groove kind, but I found I shoot a little more consistently with the finger grooves. Just trying to think out loud for some other options. Now that I think on it, there are some VERY old ones (I think they are WGP stock grips) that came on the cast metal frames - I remember those were very thin walled plastic (probably about where you're at with the ULE work done).

    Anyhow, I've never owned a ULE body before, but could the body profile at the front be changed any further (kind of a mini-exile milling, if that makes sense?), or is the cut at the front of the AM/MM rail length right at the end of the barrel threads?

    Also, depending on how nuts you want to get with the CF sleeve on the body, I know you can cut decorative slots/notches in the back top of the body on the valve side with no ill effect - looks pretty cool and it would let you grind off a few more tenths?


  19. #19
    nice

  20. #20
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    You know, the trigger frame and foregrip are really optional. Just use the sear arm as a trigger, the barrel as a foregrip, run it remote, and put that rail on more of a diet. I think you'd see a difference then.


    Yes, this is all in jest.

  21. #21
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    Have you considered making a new regulator/velocity adjustment screw out of aluminum? It is a fairly large piece of stainless steel back there that could see some weight savings from aluminum construction...Maybe switch over to CCM macro fittings too since they are aluminum and the ones on the marker look like stainless...

  22. #22
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    Also, have you considered removing more material from the rail between the gripframe screw and the foregrip mounting screw similar to what you did in the middle of the rail? Just throwing a few things out there...

  23. #23
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    Run a remote, small hopper, then you don't need a foregrip
    Superbolt

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by correia3
    Also, have you considered removing more material from the rail between the gripframe screw and the foregrip mounting screw similar to what you did in the middle of the rail? Just throwing a few things out there...
    The rail only weighs 1.5 oz and is ULEd on the inside so i cant take any more out. The rail flexes already so it is as light as I dare.

    I figure it will be 1.2 lbs when totally done.

  25. #25
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    You need to get with Mongoose for some uber light ULE rail bushings

  26. #26
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    One thing I regret is never getting around to having that one frame I designed produced.
    Totally ULE'd, the frame would have made for one of the lightest setups ever because you can get rid of the rail.
    I'll bet if the frame were made from glass-filled nylon it would fantastically light... and still no rail.

    I'd be up for producing a few prototypes if someone had the capabilities... all my personal machines are not CNC.

    This version of the design isn't completely ULE'd... it has a cutout for an MPA-3 pneumag piston directly under the on/off and a tab for easy mounting of the MSV-2.
    Notice the cutouts & holes to accomodate a sear directly in the frame.


    This was a plainer version with an integrated 15 degree foregrip.
    This frame could have also accomodated a sear.

    Last edited by Pneumagger; 04-19-2011 at 08:59 AM.

  27. #27
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    You might be able to make the top of your CF frame concave with a counterbore fo rthe ULE screw standoff, cut/drill features for a sear slot & hole, and shorten the sear arm so the rod & clevis fit in the original trigger rod channel. You'd probably need a ULT and to cut the guard and add a double trigger because the sear would become a bit harder to pull. Then you could ULE cut whatever is not needed from the rest of the CF frame.

    Although, I'm not sure if the frame is long enough.
    The sear slot might come through the back of the frame where the webbing of your thumb sits.

  28. #28
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    Very interesting. I may need a similar setup when I move the MPA3 ram under the on off in my reverse mag build.

    Do you have a cad with values assigned to them?

    What board would fit in there if any?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by hill160881
    Very interesting. I may need a similar setup when I move the MPA3 ram under the on off in my reverse mag build.

    Do you have a cad with values assigned to them?

    What board would fit in there if any?
    No, there are not formal drawings. There are so many splines and so many sections would be needed for a proper drawing that it's not worth the time. If I were making it I'd skip drawings and just generat ehte G+M code directly from the model.

    The board kind of depends on the noid you'd put in there. I remember the SMC noids were pretty small.
    I've fit boards, noids batteries & pistons in regular UMFs and Airwalk frames before.
    Then again, since it's still just a model, the grip screws could be changed to Dye 3-screw grip pattern and you'd have tons of room.

  30. #30
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by hill160881
    Capping the reg is a wash on weight as I discovered. The AGD reg is pretty darn light. That for grip is ultra ultra light.

    As for the rail, it was done with a table saw and a dremmal.

    And you still have fingers to fire that thing!!!!!
    Or do you look like this GuY!!!

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