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Thread: odd behavior, on off pin too long?

  1. #1
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    odd behavior, on off pin too long?

    I'm far from an expert with mags, but I'll try to break down what's happening/when/how etc.

    What I have: x valve, lvl 10 standard rt on/off (I had a ULT in there with similar symptoms) classic rail, ule body and medusa frame. 1200psi ninja reg. I have a regulr HP ninja tank but didn't test it with that. I don't know if either of them have any air left at this point anyway.

    Symptoms: These have been present since I got this thing in the first place last year.
    When I air up, occasionally there will be a slight leak, a tiny bit of pressure on the trigger stops the leak. (even when that pressure is removed again).
    sometimes when firing repeatedly (or single shots) that slight leak returns, a tiny bit of pressure on the trigger leaks to what sounds like the bolt cycling without firing and the leak stops again.
    the next time I fire it tends to fire 2 paintballs (which is what lead me to think the bolt cycled w/o firing)

    When the leak is not present, some pressure on the trigger leads to a leaking sound.

    So my thought is that the on off pin is too long (which would mean both the standard rt and ult pins were both too long?) as it seems that air is flowing before the sear is releasing the bolt.

    It will RT/full auto without issue some/maybe more than 1/2 the time. I haven't mastered the exact trigger pressure for consistent RT. Before chronoing at my recent game I had too much fun letting my new rotor feed the beast, I almost went through a whole hopper.
    At chrono speeds were inconsistent (260>140>270, etc) it was doing the double feed thing so I think that probably had a big influence on the chrono inconsistency. Previously the chrono had been pretty solid.

    So far I have disassembled the valve (as far as I can by hand) checked the orings, etc. No orings looked bad and when reassembled there are no obvious leaks. It cycles as it should, but still presents with the same symptoms. (I don't have a chrono at home so I don't know if it's consistent or not)

    I hope someone goes *ding* it's this.... otherwise I may have to hand it off to my local field owner/mag guru so he can exorcise the demons.

  2. #2
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    A leak out the front that stops when you lightly touch the trigger is an indication of too many shims in your powertube.

    The double feed and inconsistency at high rates of fire could easily be the rotor pushing the balls past the detents. This could be caused by paintballs that are on the small side or weak/worn detents. If the detents are fine, you may want to adjust the pressure the hopper exerts on the ball stack. I don't use a rotor, but I assume you can adjust the force just like any other force fed hopper.
    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

  3. #3
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    I don't think there are any spacers in the powertube... do you even get those with a lvl 10?
    I will have to investigate. What if there are no spacers in there?

    And the double feed thing has happened with a gravity feed, an eggy and the rotor.
    It's not necessarily at high rates of fire either. It could happen the 1st or 2nd time I fire or the 5th, even at like 1 or 2 bps.

    It's SO frustrating because my buddy with the new TM15 is talking crap about Mags

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by aerosaaber
    I don't think there are any spacers in the powertube... do you even get those with a lvl 10?
    I will have to investigate. What if there are no spacers in there?

    Go with a smaller carrier if what Athomas doesn't work out for you. Your carrier oring might have worn itself in which is a good thing. Once they do that, they tend to give you a slight leak. Going to a smaller carrier will fix the issue and you'll be trouble free for years to come. Just make sure you use the same middle oring when changing to a different carrier or your going to get yourself into a hole bigger mess if you don't

    And the double feed thing has happened with a gravity feed, an eggy and the rotor.
    It's not necessarily at high rates of fire either. It could happen the 1st or 2nd time I fire or the 5th, even at like 1 or 2 bps.

    It's SO frustrating because my buddy with the new TM15 is talking crap about Mags

    Only thing that's going to cause a double feed like that is weak or improperly installed detents on a ULE body.
    ...

  5. #5
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    I've got a couple spacers, I'll have a look and see what sizes I have.
    I've never really looked at the detent so I'll check it out.

    Thanks for all the tips thus far!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by aerosaaber
    I don't think there are any spacers in the powertube... do you even get those with a lvl 10?
    I will have to investigate. What if there are no spacers in there?
    Shims (not spacers) come with the level 10. Check your sear for wear at the tip as well, a bit of wear at the tip will have the same effect as adding shims to the powertube. If this is the problem, then the only solution is to replace the sear. Check the shim situation. If there are no shims, try Ando's suggestion. If it doesn't work or gives you bolt stick going to the next smaller carrier, then youi need a new sear. I'm guess there are shims that need to be removed.

    Quote Originally Posted by aerosaaber
    And the double feed thing has happened with a gravity feed, an eggy and the rotor.
    It's not necessarily at high rates of fire either. It could happen the 1st or 2nd time I fire or the 5th, even at like 1 or 2 bps.
    If a gravity feed hopper causes double feeds, then your detents are weak or worn.

  7. #7
    Check the rear thumb screw. It could be too tight or too loose.

  8. #8
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    I had a problem with the thumb screw being too tight (bolt wouldn't fully reset)
    I fixed that by adding an oring to prevent me from over tightening it, more of a reminfer than anything else.

    I will inspect the sear and look at the shim situation and will report back.

    thanks again everyone.

  9. #9
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    Finally got around to looking at the automag, Started with the level X carrier, I went down a size. No more leak down the barrel. No test firing tonight, but I'm heading to the field tomorrow.
    Will report back if problem remains (and I'll inspect the sear then too)

  10. #10
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    After a day at the field and about a case of super brittle paint through the mag, I finally have gotten around to cleaning her up. There was paint everywhere inside, outside everywhere. This paint was probably better off thrown away but I shot it anyway, had a couple barrel breaks (this crap was so brittle a drop from 1 foot off the floor caused breaks in the shell)

    No more leak down the barrel and much less common double feed type thing.
    Toward the end of the day the sear seemed to be sticking which was odd. Kind of like a super slow reseting from the on/off.

    When I got it all stripped down, either side of the sear was covered in gunk, I assume it's old cruddy paint that sort of gel'd up in there and was rubbing the rail just enough to cause trouble.
    The tip of the sear looks to be in pretty good shape still, it's showing a small amount of wear but plenty of meat left on it.

    Of course, no test firing after it's all back together but I have a feeling that gunky stuff wasn't helping anything.

    I guess the moral of the story is, if you're shooting junky paint and getting some breaks (or have a break in the hopper and it all drips down you better strip everything down and clean throughly.

  11. #11
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    Gunk will slow things down. If the sear remains slow to reset when cleaned, then you have bolt stick, but paint shell and gunk is probably the issue since it only got slow towards the end of the day after several paint breaks.

    One way to solve super brittle paint is to use an overbore barrel. That prevents most barrel breaks.

  12. #12
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    I haven't had that many breaks in the past, though this particular paint has been sitting in my basement since like December. From now on I plan to buy paint within a week of playing. (It had also changed color a little bit, pink shell morphing to a sort of orange color)

  13. #13
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    Old paint doesn't mean bad paint if it is stored properly. The best paint I ever shot was 3 or 4 years old.

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