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Thread: emag hiccups

  1. #1

    emag hiccups

    I'm very new to mags and just bought a used emag with xmod 1.8.

    I'm overall extremely happy with the performance but I noticed if I try to shoot fast (either bursting over and over or full auto) a few seconds in the bolt won't recock or fire.

    Is this short stroking or something? I hear the "splock" sound that's similar to the lvl10 anti-chop engaging. Could it be my warp feed can't keep up?

    Thanks for all your help.

  2. #2
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    I recommend check the carrier in powertube remove a shim then try. If that doesnt work put shim back and up the carrier size keep same oring. If still no change or it gets worse go back to original set-up and check your valve on off oring make sure the pin is flowing smoothly. I had a issue were the on off quad oring was getting pinched and causing bolt to act weird. Always document your start set up though for worst case you can go back to your current set-up.

    Very important!!!! test in manual mode 1st then go electric.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Tropical Life
    I recommend check the carrier in powertube remove a shim then try. If that doesnt work put shim back and up the carrier size keep same oring. If still no change or it gets worse go back to original set-up and check your valve on off oring make sure the pin is flowing smoothly. I had a issue were the on off quad oring was getting pinched and causing bolt to act weird. Always document your start set up though for worst case you can go back to your current set-up.

    Very important!!!! test in manual mode 1st then go electric.

    Thanks!

    I removed a shim and with dry-firing it seems to fire long strings without the *chok chok chok*.

    2 questions:

    1) what does removing shims do, decrease the sensitivity of the level 10 and thus ensures the bolt travels?

    2) it sounds like there is shootdown. Of course this is just dry firing, but what could cause that?

    Thanks for all your help.

  4. #4
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    Glad it got better.. you might find some of your answers and better understanding of the lvl 10 here:

    http://automags.org/resource/level10/index.shtml

    the shim question is best answered in shim adjustments:

    1) The shims (5) control where in the forward stroke the air chamber starts venting.

    2) Shootdown-I would chrono the marker for velocity see where you are at in manual mode. Try that 1st since your predicting, then come back with for sure results .

    The sensitivity in your bolt is controlled by your powertube carrier and oring.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tropical Life
    The sensitivity in your bolt is controlled by your powertube carrier and oring.
    And the main spring tension. The stiffer the spring, the harder it is for the chamber pressure to overcome the bolt and move it forward far enough too vent properly, propelling the ball. With a stiffer spring, you will have to increase the velocity adjuster to overcome the spring.

    Sometimes, this can result in far too high of a velocity. This is where spring trimming becomes handy. A general rule of thumb is to turn up your velocity until the gun fires consistently, then crank it up an extra 20 fps to where you want it.

    Oh, and JS.. Along with everything else, Oil. Mags love oil. 4 or 5 drops in the ASA.

  6. #6
    Thanks guys.

  7. #7
    Ok I made a brief vid of my experience. Right now my emag is at 15bps, 1 shim, full auto (for testing sake).

    You can see it fires about 4-5 shot and then it chokes up or cuffs. Not sure what it's commonly called.

    Can you help me describe what the issue is? Should I look at the shims or something else?

    Much thanks!

    http://youtu.be/x2QM7dT8Fn8

  8. #8
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    Sounds like the on/off pin is stuck, try replacing the on/off quad oring with a small oring that will drop in but wont grip the pin to hard but will let it flow.add a tad of oil in it. Test with gold spring also.

    Try with your dwell at 27 atleast in electronic mode. Once you get it up and running you can drop the dwell a bit if you like.

    At the end of my video I have my settings in full-auto mode try those if you like(note my demo is off a 1200 psi reg). Remember the more input pressure your regulator puts out the faster bps your gonna get. On my settings you should get with a regular reg 850 psi you should get 14 bps full auto.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsL_CYaW90I

    1:19 for settings

    Just to be sure you have the right on/off does it look like this:

    http://www.tunamart.com/index.php?c=42&p=399
    Last edited by Tropical Life; 11-07-2011 at 09:19 PM.

  9. #9
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    Might also want to check your trigger rod and plunger lengths.

    From the tolerance specs sticky:

    On/Off pin: .712" w/ brass top and double o-ring top.
    .725" w/ aluminum top and single o-ring top.

    Trigger Rod: 2.125"

    Solenoid Plunger Rod: 3.005"

  10. #10
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    ^was gonna leave that for last dont wanna freak him out lol, it really sounds like the on/off pin is not flowing. I had same issue once just like that I threw in a small black oring and it was ripping nice.

    Get it to shoot nice in manual mode with rapid shooting with out the hold back like its doing you will feel the difference in the trigger pull when the pin is flowing smoothly. then jump to electo, keep us posted, we will get it right for you.

    Another thing it could be is the battery is low which cause is it to act like that also., make sure you have a full charge on the battery for e mode.
    Last edited by Tropical Life; 11-08-2011 at 04:14 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tropical Life
    ^was gonna leave that for last dont wanna freak him out lol, It really sounds like the on/off pin is not flowing. I had same issue once just like that I thru in a small black oring and it was ripping.
    I'm not trying to freak him out, its an easy check and I wanna make sure all grounds are covered.

    (Grab a pair of needle nose pliers, pull the E-clip off the plunger and lift the whole sear out)

    But yes, I would start by pulling the on/off out, actually take the on/off apart (the top and bottom twist apart, I didn't know this for a long time), check that O-ring inside, and the top two O-rings.

  12. #12
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    ^ I know, I know j/k

  13. #13
    Thanks, you guys have gone beyond the call of duty. I'll do the mag surgery another day and update.

    I'm a Palmer/Sheridan guy so the complex-in-comparison mag valve is a fun challenge to sort out.

  14. #14
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    How old is the battery? A weak battery could cause those issues, where it starts off fast and then slips up.

    How old is the bolt spring? A weak bolt spring can have symptoms like that too.

    Have you fully tuned your level 10 bolt? Bolt stick causes the bolt to take longer to reset. The valve cannot recharge until the bolt fully resets. If the mag fires again before the valve is fully charged due to a slow reset, the mag will cough.
    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by athomas
    How old is the battery? A weak battery could cause those issues, where it starts off fast and then slips up.

    How old is the bolt spring? A weak bolt spring can have symptoms like that too.

    Have you fully tuned your level 10 bolt? Bolt stick causes the bolt to take longer to reset. The valve cannot recharge until the bolt fully resets. If the mag fires again before the valve is fully charged due to a slow reset, the mag will cough.

    The battery is pretty strong, reads 18+ volts. I'll definitely tinker with the lvl10 & shims some more.

    I disassembled the whole thing and played with the on/off. It's definitely very tight. How loose should it be? Should it drop down from gravity?

    Thanks.

  16. #16
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    Sounds like your sear arm is bouncing off the trigger. You sear arm shouldn't be touching the trigger in E mode.

  17. #17
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    I agree with Ando, hence I suggested checking your rod lengths.

    As for your battery, I had one that would read 20V but wouldn't juice the noid enough to fire the gun. If you know anyone else that has one, maybe try theirs.

    On/off's can be tight in the valve, as long as the pin moves freely inside it. Pop it out and oil the Oring inside the on/off as well as the top ones.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaguarshark
    The battery is pretty strong, reads 18+ volts. I'll definitely tinker with the lvl10 & shims some more.

    I disassembled the whole thing and played with the on/off. It's definitely very tight. How loose should it be? Should it drop down from gravity?

    Thanks.
    The battery can read a high voltage and still not be able to deliver the amount of required current under load. As the battery gets old the internal resistance goes up. When a high current is required, the internal resistance causes a voltage drop within the battery. Heating makes it worst, which is why single shots may be ok, but rapid firing can cause issues. The batteries only last about 5 or 6 years. If yours have never been changed, then they are over 10 years old. If they haven't been used much but kept topped up, they may be able to last a bit longer.

    The on-off can be tight, but still function fine as long as its not unmoveable. It definately won't drop from gravity alone. Quite often when you take the assembly out, the pin will stay with the top orings.

    I suspect that you will fix your problem with the level 10 tuning.

    Do check the trigger pin. Adjust your trigger stop if the pin is hitting the back of the trigger.

  19. #19
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    If you can shoot it in manual mode with no hold back, then its your battery. If not its your valve on/off. Make sure the valve pin is a .712 and it is not modified on the tip cause that can cause issues also.

    If you have the right tool to take the measurements of the rod go for it, this is something some what rare that someone messed with that. I say that from owning 5 emags recently and none have had that rod messed with.

    Again test in manual mode until its rips nice then go electro.

    If you have exhausted trying on what we have recommended you can always send your marker to Tunaman and get it fixed he is highly recommended here.

    I agree with all the men and boys whom have posted here with their recommendations..best of luck

  20. #20
    Thanks all, really great tips here. I'll update when I get some more air to test it out.

  21. #21


    I took a closeup on my on/off pin. It looks to be .71" give or take .005".

    Should I measure the sear and the other rod?

    What's the black weird o-ring above the on/off? Does that look normal?

    TIA

  22. #22
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    That is your Quad o-ring, and it looks a little chewed.. If you have a replacement, change it over and see if that corrects your issue.
    Last edited by OneSelfLost; 11-13-2011 at 11:39 PM.

  23. #23
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    That pin is a bit chewed up. It is a wonder that it functions at all. That is probably why your quad oring is chewed up.

    The pin is 0.712" which is the correct one.
    Last edited by athomas; 11-14-2011 at 05:11 PM. Reason: wrong dimension

  24. #24
    Ok cool. Looks like I'll rebuild most of the valve (o-rings, on/off rod) and check the air supply.

    I'm pretty confident the battery is alright. I tested it out while pushing the on/off with my finger and the solenoid definitely hits with a lot of painful force.

    I'm thinking of the Ninja SHP reg for my tank. Is the 1100PSI output good for an emag? The rail says 600-800psi, don't worry about that right?

    Thanks all.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaguarshark
    I'm thinking of the Ninja SHP reg for my tank. Is the 1100PSI output good for an emag? The rail says 600-800psi, don't worry about that right?
    The 1100psi reg will work fine, but you don't need it for the emag. A regular 850psi tank regulator works fine.

    A 1100 psi tank will enhance reactivity, which some people want for their manual retro valve mags. You may get too much reactivity in manual mode on an emag since the on-off pin is already quite short. On e-mode, their won't be a noticable difference from an operator point of view.

  26. #26
    ok thanks!

    I'm just now waiting on the o-ring and level 10 rebuild kit from AGD.

    To be continued...
    Last edited by jaguarshark; 11-14-2011 at 08:24 PM.

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