Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 34

Thread: LPR integrated into forgrip

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    the country of california
    Posts
    1,134

    LPR integrated into forgrip

    Lets try thin again.
    Rules: Stay on topic and no flaming

    Well i have a feeling Renie and I were thinking along the same lines at the same time. lol I have been wanting to do this for almost a year now and thanks to him it may become a reality. I also have permission from him to post this.

    Some have suguested this design could get pinched but seriously it is a coppy of another reg in a new housing. This reg was the template as it is simple and the parts are easy to get.




    The point is to get something that will relocate the LPR from under the barrel or off the side of the asa to the forgrip and not look like an LPR.

    This was my first idea




    Now that looks good for what i used it for but wont work for an Ego Mag.

    So I sketched this out using the internals from above.



    Then the newest member to the Mag modding comunity, "Renie" privided this ruf cad to shw it is possible. He may be new here but the force is strong with this one. hehe




    Any thoughts on the design or any other ideas are welcome. I considered using a Matrix LPR and designing it to just accept one of those, but think the parts I selected will be around and available longer than PPS.




  2. Next Troll gets a Ban.

    -The AO Moderation Team
    "Everything in Moderation"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    triple mag shop.
    Posts
    3,082
    hey hill,

    is there a way to make those parts in that reg, but smaller, maybe 50%?

    maybe on a lathe or a mill?

    for some reason i am confused on how a lpr works.
    i see how i just dont understand it.

    i took my tickler apart, got confused.

    are you going to try and make your parts smaller?
    or just take them out of regs and use them?

    thanks,
    KNM

    when and if you make these im down for 2-5 of them.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Cottonwood, Az.
    Posts
    5,659
    For the most part he is just wants to make a new housing and use parts from a proven regulator.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    triple mag shop.
    Posts
    3,082
    Quote Originally Posted by luke
    For the most part he is just wants to make a new housing and use parts from a proven regulator.
    gotcha.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    the country of california
    Posts
    1,134
    That is a possible plan but I need to find out if the diameter of the piston can be reduced without changing the shrader valve dimensions equally, I may be over thinking things. It would likely just need a stiffer spring behind the piston.

    Renie may already know though.
    Last edited by hill160881; 01-26-2012 at 01:22 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Sunny, England
    Posts
    344
    in theory it should be possible to get the lpr down to about 10-12mm od but trials will tell

    should be able to get the piston down to 8-9mm but it would make the lpr a little longer than say a tickler, as u will still need room for the low pressure air, but only testing will tell i may just make a straight lpr for now for testing purposes, that way it will give an idea on what it would need to be in a grip, only pain in the arse is shrader valves have there own thread, so im gonna have to order a Tap and there tapered which doesnt help

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    the country of california
    Posts
    1,134
    Here are the ruff drawings of the internals and there aproxamate sizes. This grip with LPR intagrated could be made as small as .75" thick by 1.125" deep by 2.5"tall. Thats Samall I would increase the thicknesses a bit though to be safe.
    If the piston can be reduced in size it could get smaller.
    Last edited by hill160881; 01-26-2012 at 02:06 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    the country of california
    Posts
    1,134
    There is almost no volume needed due to the size of the pistons used and the fact that the recharge rate is made faster by the higher input pressure. So volume on the LP side is not important.

    This design already has .60 cubic inches of volume then the lines. It shoots plenty fast enough to.
    Last edited by hill160881; 01-26-2012 at 01:31 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Sunny, England
    Posts
    344
    ill try and get something done tomorrow when the boss is out

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    the country of california
    Posts
    1,134
    How much will the tool cost to cut the shrader valve? I will cover it.

    I also recommend you get in touch with y0da900 as he knows the tolerances for orings used in these types of devices, assuming you dont already do this at work all the time
    Last edited by hill160881; 01-26-2012 at 01:36 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Sunny, England
    Posts
    344
    $500 bucks
    only kidding im trying to source one online now

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    3,175
    Schrader inserts are not my friend on LPRs. Most inserts don't have much of a pin guide and the pin wobbles a lot. I came across a Next LPR for a timmy that would work for a few shots, then fail to seal. I still have an old shocktech on a gen-e matrix with an insert in it, but those regs don't have a great reputation either. Modded a bit, it seems fine though.

    Just make sure your pin on the insert is straight to start with, I found a new one that was bent.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    the country of california
    Posts
    1,134
    So maybe lengthen the piston between the orings to keep it from wobbling as much? Also further dish out the end to cup and holt the pin more?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Sunny, England
    Posts
    344
    the aircon ones are better made and you can get higher pressure ones too

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Sunny, England
    Posts
    344
    forgot you guys work imperial my pistons gonna be about 0.325 od so alot smaller than u think Hill

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    3,175
    Quote Originally Posted by hill160881
    So maybe lengthen the piston between the orings to keep it from wobbling as much? Also further dish out the end to cup and holt the pin more?
    Probably not, just keep an eye on the alignment. Even though the HVAC schraders are rated for high pressure, it's more of an on/off service design instead of regulation. I would just be sure and test it before I hung an SMC070 off of it.

    I tried two other different cores in that Next LPR and they all failed shortly after working initially. The superbolt LPR is another reg like that. That's why I distrust them all now.

    Hmm...an LPR made like a ULT would be $wanky. Kind of a miniature angel LPR.
    Last edited by Spider-TW; 01-26-2012 at 02:17 PM.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    the country of california
    Posts
    1,134
    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-TW
    Probably not, just keep an eye on the alignment. Even though the HVAC schraders are rated for high pressure, it's more of an on/off service design instead of regulation. I would just be sure and test it before I hung an SMC070 off of it.

    I tried two other different cores in that Next LPR and they all failed shortly after working initially. The superbolt LPR is another reg like that. That's why I distrust them all now.
    Thats smart. I had the one in the pictures above running at high rates of fire for around 20k rounds before the valve died. But it was 10 years old and a low pressure valve as well. all that would be needed to test it is an air supply and a full auto board and let it go until failure. Time it and do the math at the rate of fire to see how many rounds they handle. I could do it or renie could but he would need 900 psi input pressure to get accurate results. Its a long way but if he makes two of them and and sends me one, we both test it and that would provide better results. If the valve is not capable of this job we can go from there. But they are so cheap to buy and small, it would be great if we could find one that would hold up.

    Also when my lpr went out the marker went full auto for three shots then the line blew off the noid. The noid is still fine and works like normal. Probably lucky though.



    Quote Originally Posted by renie
    forgot you guys work imperial my pistons gonna be about 0.325 od so alot smaller than u think Hill
    That would be great.
    Last edited by hill160881; 01-26-2012 at 08:10 PM.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Londonderry, NH
    Posts
    1,326
    Quote Originally Posted by luke
    For the most part he is just wants to make a new housing and use parts from a proven regulator.
    I hadn't really paid too much attention to the details above but this clears things up a bit.

    Since this is the case, use the Micro Rock internals/design instead. Especially given the SMC noid's limit of 72psi, use something that will be the most consistent at lower pressures.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Sunny, England
    Posts
    344
    this is just a prototype but it will ne to be about 1/2" longer as the spring needs to be a bit longer and i want to increase the piston length also i need a short grub screw not a 1" one
    the leftside(top) is tapped npt but it would work better being a male thread i done it like that so i could whackmacro straight in for testing
    will try and get some air through it over the weekend



  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    3,175
    Nice. Is the brass insert threaded or loctite'd?

    ***

    You may need to square off that spring end, especially with one o-ring on the piston.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    the country of california
    Posts
    1,134
    Its small like we need
    You may want to extend that piston and add another oring. We only need the schrader valve that will be used for the next version and testing can comence

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Sunny, England
    Posts
    344
    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-TW
    Nice. Is the brass insert threaded or loctite'd?

    ***

    You may need to square off that spring end, especially with one o-ring on the piston.
    its threaded and loctited, its a temporary design whislt i await my tap for the schrader valve
    the spring will be square on the final design this is mearly for test purposes

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    the country of california
    Posts
    1,134
    Quote Originally Posted by renie
    its threaded and loctited, its a temporary design whislt i await my tap for the schrader valve
    the spring will be square on the final design this is mearly for test purposes
    I cant wait to see the results


    Quote Originally Posted by TwilightG
    I hadn't really paid too much attention to the details above but this clears things up a bit.

    Since this is the case, use the Micro Rock internals/design instead. Especially given the SMC noid's limit of 72psi, use something that will be the most consistent at lower pressures.
    The only problem is that leaves you getting a 40 dollar reg to make thit all work and the internals we are looking at are about 1/4 that cost.

    I agree totally but think these valves are worth a try at the least.

    Also I run all my mini smc noids at 80-85 psi. They usually start to leak at around 100 psi
    Last edited by hill160881; 01-27-2012 at 09:40 AM.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Londonderry, NH
    Posts
    1,326
    Quote Originally Posted by hill160881
    The only problem is that leaves you getting a 40 dollar reg to make thit all work and the internals we are looking at are about 1/4 that cost.

    I agree totally but think these valves are worth a try at the least.

    Also I run all my mini smc noids at 80-85 psi. They usually start to leak at around 100 psi
    True, Micro Rocks aren't cheap, but you get what you pay for.
    As for the smc noids, the manufacturer rates them at a max operating pressure of 72psi. Sure, you may be able to squeeze out 10+psi more, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you should.

    Not trying to derail the thread or anything, just offering some constructive criticism.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Sunny, England
    Posts
    344
    well its together and works so far so good a little sticking on the piston o-ring where the bores a bit tight so i'm going to open up the bore a little that should be ready for some proper testing

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    4,505
    Has anyone considered the possibility of having a dual reg? One side 200-600psi and the other LP?

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    the country of california
    Posts
    1,134
    The thought of that makes my brain hurt.

    It would be possible though.
    Last edited by hill160881; 01-27-2012 at 09:20 PM.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    571
    I hope you guys come up with something that works, I need a small consistent internal lpr for my G-Force frame......all the small lprs I have used seem to blow hoses. As soon as I switched to a foregrip mounted rock lpr like pictured above, things were much better.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    571
    I hope you guys come up with something that works, I need a small consistent internal lpr for my G-Force frame......all the small lprs I have used seem to blow hoses. As soon as I switched to a foregrip mounted rock lpr like pictured above, things were much better.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •